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  1. #181  
    I was still in 2 minds about getting a Pre (and now the Pre Plus), however I don't think I can live with the lack of built-in calender functionality so I will be sticking with my Centro and DateBK6 for the time being.

    I'd pay for a Pimlico DateBK app for the Pre, much like many of the other posters here.
    HP Pre 3 (UK)
  2. #182  
    I've been using Palm's calendar functions for years and it wasn't until the Pre that I realized how important it was to me. Palm needs to get this fixed with 1.4
    Palm M100 => Treo 755P => Treo 800w => Treo 755p => Palm Pre => No more Palm/HP products
  3. #183  
    My biggest issues:
    1. Original sync will fail if you have a large number of events (10,000+ in my case, since my old Palm set of events went back to ten years).
    2. If you use third party program to sync (Missing Sync), it will fail within a month. Palm needs to support the calendar, or find a third party who can. MarkSpace is not doing a good job.
    3. Recurring appointments!!!! I want to schedule a meeting every monday for the next 10 weeks, not forever. Please let me set an end date!

    At least they fixed performance. It used to be so slow it was unusable. Now it is usable, I just don't want to use it!

    I think they should lock the team into a room, show them an old Palm from 2000, and then say "do everything this does, plus the new goodies".
    KA1
    Visor Deluxe->Visor Prism/Digital Link->Treo 650->Treo 700p->Pre->GSM Unlocked Pre 2 (wifi only)->FrankenPre + Touchpad 32 ->+ Touchpad 4G ATT + ATT Pre3 + 64 White Touchpad... bliss.
  4. #184  
    I miss my colors!!! The Treo calendar was a lot easier to see at a glance what was up next...
  5. #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by bradspace View Post
    Among others and unless I am blind, I cannot seem to find a way to create an appointment (meeting) on my Pre and add attendees. This is also not possible on the Google calendars as well so far as I can tell. Can someone please confirm this for me either way so I know now whether to abandon ship or continue to love my Pre?
    The Pre does not have the ability to invite others to meetings. Not sure what you mean when you say its is also not possible on the Google calendars. If you mean on the Pre, that's correct; however, Google Calendars lets you invite others from the web based app.

    That said, you can invite others on the Pre by using the web based version of Google Calendar.

    On your Pre, go to m.google.com/calendar to get started
  6. #186  
    Quote Originally Posted by gizmo21 View Post
    ...
    wasn't there also a video of palm which said this notification would be done automagically by the pre when beiing late.... wasn't that one of the "PRE"-thinking abilities advertised.
    Actually, that works. I found this out accidentally, because my wife had it happen on her Pixi (she's no phone geekess, and had never heard about it). She told me her Pixi "did the weirdest thing" and told me about it.

    At first, I thought it had to do with actively running Google Maps and her current location was tied to where the meeting was to be.

    However, it wasn't that complex. We finally figured out that when you have a notification set for a meeting that has other attendees, when the warning comes up, if you pick "snooze", it will ask if you want to send an email to the other attendees.
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by LWI View Post
    anyone knows if PALM has the intention to fix calendar so that one can invite diectly from the PRE ?
    No specific word, but Sprint posted that 1.4 would include updates to the Calendaring program.

    Again, see the post a few lines above. You can use the web based app for Google Calendar to send invites.
  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    wow...have to homebrew to have a simple agenda app? Still can't customize my reminders. Sometimes I need two hours, sometimes three, sometimes it's 2 days. Why is it limited? Categories? still? universal search is not universal. I don't always know Why can't I link a simple contact to an appt so I have a history of things they've done? Granted I did that with 3rd party on PalmOS, but those guys don't seem to have interest in webOS. And the reoccurring thing as others have mentioned. Have a bunch of those that I change, modify and delete and usually from the phone. But, gee, I can play 3d games now. Actually I can't because I'm trying to use a Pixi. Which I'm happy I can at least assign speed dials to the keyboard. That's a little reassuring.
    Why was third party OK with PalmOS, but homebrew is a bad thing with the Pre?

    Personally, I think you're just looking to complain.
  9. #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Why was third party OK with PalmOS, but homebrew is a bad thing with the Pre?

    Personally, I think you're just looking to complain.
    Well, the poster raises some valid issues. At present the calendar app is inadequate. Patches and the Agenda app make it better, but still not as good as the PalmOS apps. So unless someone develops a good calendar app, the Pre is still inferior in this regard (though a great device in other respects.)
  10. #190  
    because in creating a new OS you should be able to take the additions of 3rd party software that made your old OS better and apply it to the new. Not take so many steps backwards then rely on 3rd party to try and bring it to what your original OS was.

    The agenda app is kinda nice, but the formatting sucks and barely anything fits on a page. If I have to scroll down to see more than a day doesn't really help the cause. I have a wasted home screen that's good for nothing but wallpaper when I could easily fit a week at a glance if formatted properly.

    Do I complain? Sure. I expected a lot more from Palm when it came to the PIM especially when I listened to their lackeys on facebook promise they wouldn't leave PalmOS owners behind. I've taken to the Pixi quite well and gladly leave my Moment on the night stand. Both have inferior PIM's. I don't have expectations for Google though. They just suck on the PIM front because google's PIM is inferior. Palm is a different story entirely as they had a pedigree they failed to act upon. Created a very nice OS and dumbed down the PIM because they hopped into bed with google.

    And from what I've read, developers still have their hands tied when it comes to access to contacts and calendar. So to expect the likes of Agendus and Pocket Informant to show up are slim to none. Even apps like YouView and Contacts Plus make note about their hands being tied.

    And I never said homebrew was bad. There's a difference between making up for a product's inadequacies and enhancing a good product. It's just a shame homebrew has to do so much of the former.
    Last edited by crogs571; 02/03/2010 at 12:29 AM.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  11. #191  
    I'm really looking for an alternate calendar. I wish Pimlico would step up and make DateBk 6 for WebOS. Besides the missing features like event invites, I really would love the week-at-a-glance view that looks like an old paper date book. An agenda view would also be useful.

    I've just re-activated my Pre after putting it on hiatus in favor of a BlackBerry. I thought I'd fire the Pre up, activate it for a week or so, and see what's changed since I last used it several months ago. What I come up with is "not much". Still no customizable email or other message alerts. Categories or Filters for the Contacts List would be a welcome addition too.

    If Palm is serious about making a go of it they have to address these basic features immediately. They've done great with bug fixes, but adding new features has been anemic.
    Verizon
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Grace View Post
    Well, the poster raises some valid issues. At present the calendar app is inadequate. Patches and the Agenda app make it better, but still not as good as the PalmOS apps. So unless someone develops a good calendar app, the Pre is still inferior in this regard (though a great device in other respects.)
    Some valid, some not so much; however, he is repeating the same "issues" that he had when he left the first time around. There was no reason to believe that the issues he brings had been resolved. Personally, I hope Palm addresses some of them 1.4, but there are workarounds.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with HomeBrew being the answer instead of "official" Palm apps (as a matter of fact, Palm's recent changes in the way apps are distributed have blurred that distinction even further).

    Nothing is going to make the current app as good as the PalmOS apps except time. Trust me, I was using a Palm "back then", and the PIM app when it was released bore very little resemblance to what it became.

    Even in spite of the changes Palm made in the PalmOS app, it was still inadequate enough that there were viable commercial alternatives.

    I have no doubt we will see commercial alternatives/addons for the Pre PIM.
  13. #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    because in creating a new OS you should be able to take the additions of 3rd party software that made your old OS better and apply it to the new. Not take so many steps backwards then rely on 3rd party to try and bring it to what your original OS was.
    ...
    I don't really think that trying to implement the additions that third party apps added to PalmOS would have been viable. Which system would you have had them follow? DateBK or Agendus (or something else)? Would it have required that they wait on maturing the tasks app (which has its own set of problems, trying to synchronize with multiple sources in the cloud). Would you have it not include tasks (which would immediately bring howls of "why not"?) If they had included tasks, what about users of Google Tasks and/or Exchange. What if they spent months getting both of those working, only to find that not only do people not particularly want those, but they really want something that interacts with the Calendar and Remember the Milk or Headquarters?

    These are the types of things that a brand new OS on a brand new device has to look at closely. Even though there are lot of old PalmOS users, there a lot of other users that have other wants and desires as well.

    It's just not as simple as "let's copy what we had before".
  14. #194  
    I don't want them to simply copy what they had before, but some of the features they omitted were important. The calendar as it now stands is PRIMITIVE and lacks the functionality of just about every other smartphone on the market.

    When the Treo 650 came out it dropped the DateBk that was licensed from Pimlico and used on the Treo 600. There were howls of protest, and Pimlico made a fortune addressing this lack.

    If Palm can't figure out what the market wants and doesn't want, they have no business being in business. Market research and focus groups, as well as simply looking around at what everyone else is using, should give them a clue. If they can't do this, well, bye.
    Verizon
  15. #195  
    actually if these were issues raised 7 months ago and not just by me, but by many PalmOS users, wouldn't 7 months be ample time to see if some of them were addressed?

    You can make brand new OS as bold as you want. And if this were an Android forum I'd agree. But you fail to recognize the fact they have 13yrs of experience in the business of PIM development with their prior OS. If you want to give them a pass, that's fine. But they discarded quite a bit of what gave PalmOS their cult following (software and hardware wise). And if you go back to all their big facebook hoopla, they specifically mentioned not leaving PalmOS users behind, yet 7 months later a lot of the functionality that has been given has come from homebrew, not Palm. Which I'm grateful for since I'm enjoying the Pixi for the most part. At least I'm not going as far as saying webOS doesn't do true multitasking as one of my former cohorts suggested...haha. That thread was a riot especially as I was watching my Nav continue in the card while I read a few text messages

    Who should Palm use? How about for starters, PalmOS? And then look at some of the features Datebook and Agendus implemented as something to BUILD OFF OF. They actually removed stock funcitonality in webOS

    In regards to tasks, Palm supports both Exchange and Google in general, so why not start there? ummm..duh? Their core tasks app would support the two their most in bed with then let the other companies get a hold of the SDK and incorporate support for their product. Google rolled out tasks in what, July? So six months later?

    And I mentioned above, but it wasn't touched on, I don't think apps like Agendus and Datebook and Pocket Informer can touch webOS. They can't access anything to build off of because Palm has it pretty much locked down. I think Pimlico even expressed how much access they had in the iPhone to design their app but elsewhere has been more or a struggle. Go figure on that one. Those 3rd party forums are riddled with webOS and Android users clamoring for a solution to the companies that adopted Google's PIM as the new gold standard. PalmOS's PIM wasn't always good. It did grow over 13yrs. Heck, there was a big difference between the version on my i500 and the one on my 700p. And the ability for 3rd parties to manipulate it and create phenomenal solutions for business users was even better. So let Palm give them access to contacts and calendar and create the programs. Create an active home screen so I can see my upcoming weeks of appts. Staring at plain wallpaper is useless and scrolling through agenda is no easier than flipping through days.

    I will say I'm very impressed with the stock clock/alarm, especially with the days patch added in. Much better than anything stock from the other companies.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  16. #196  
    Wheres the agenda view??? (rhetorical, unless one does exist that Im unaware of)
  17. #197  
    it's a homebrew app. so it's a separate app, not incorporated into the views of the calendar app, and the formatting is a bit lackluster. way too much white space for it to be that useful. but I don't program, and can't do any better so.... but that's why i don't donate. I just keep looking for updates when in preware. even the thread is stagnant since i posted. if it was improved, I'd be happy to donate.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    actually if these were issues raised 7 months ago and not just by me, but by many PalmOS users, wouldn't 7 months be ample time to see if some of them were addressed?
    Palm has addressed "some" of the calendar issues. The poblem is (and I'll keep repeating this), not only do they have multiple issues that folks want changed, each person has different features they think are "basic".


    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    You can make brand new OS as bold as you want. And if this were an Android forum I'd agree. But you fail to recognize the fact they have 13yrs of experience in the business of PIM development with their prior OS. If you want to give them a pass, that's fine. But they discarded quite a bit of what gave PalmOS their cult following (software and hardware wise).
    And I couldn't disagree more. Do you really believe they had "13yrs of experiences in the business of PIM"? Really?? Then why do you suppose they OEM'd their PIM out to a third party (Pimlico)? I suspect that the original designers of the PIM have been gone a decade or so, and Pimlico has stated they're not interested at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    And if you go back to all their big facebook hoopla, they specifically mentioned not leaving PalmOS users behind, yet 7 months later a lot of the functionality that has been given has come from homebrew, not Palm. Which I'm grateful for since I'm enjoying the Pixi for the most part. At least I'm not going as far as saying webOS doesn't do true multitasking as one of my former cohorts suggested...haha. That thread was a riot especially as I was watching my Nav continue in the card while I read a few text messages
    That's pretty much following what Palm did originally. Build the basics, and buy addons as interest was generated and recognized. As much as some folks may not like hearing this, I still think they're too early into the game to put a lot of effort into adding basic functionality. My list would almost certainly be different than someone else's. FWIW, here's my top PIM issues from the day I bought my Pre:
    • Make it so you can selectively sync Facebook (according to groups in Facebook)
    • Make it so you can selectively sync Google Contacts (They did fix this somewhat, by using My Contacts instead of All Contacts)
    • Add the ability to invite others to events
    • Sync tasks with Google and other cloud services
    • Create some sort of daily agenda (done with HomeBrew Agenda)
    • Incorporate tasks into the Calendar (from multiple sources, please)
    • Improve tasks (done with Outlook Tracker, for me)


    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    Who should Palm use? How about for starters, PalmOS? And then look at some of the features Datebook and Agendus implemented as something to BUILD OFF OF. They actually removed stock funcitonality in webOS
    Nope, PalmOS PIM stunk in the beginning for use with anything except the device and Palm's desktop program. No ability to sync to anything except the desktop app until Pocket Mirror was licensed. We now don't have a deskbook app, and they turned to the Cloud. That means you fashion the new PIM around what's available in cloud services. Unfortunately, much of that is still in flux. Facebook and Google are still pretty regularly changing their API's (or their API's are nonexistant, which is likely why Groups isn't used from Facebook, and tasks aren't sync'd with Google, no API's)

    The visuals of the app won't work on the Pre, because everything that's selectable must be so much larger. No sylus, so finger tip size is the order of the day. That means you have to show less information on the screen.

    None of these issues are insurmountable, but they mean you cannot just copy what you had before. Even the functionality is changing because what people now want is different than want they wanted before.

    Finally, if you look at my list above, you'll see that few of those are things that DateBK brought to the PalmOS. Again, that's the problem, "standard" PIM functions. My "standard" is likely to be much different than yours. Palm has to guage what's important. Unfortunately, one of the most commonly accepted ways of guaging that is watching to see what people pay for.

    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    In regards to tasks, Palm supports both Exchange and Google in general, so why not start there? ummm..duh? Their core tasks app would support the two their most in bed with then let the other companies get a hold of the SDK and incorporate support for their product. Google rolled out tasks in what, July? So six months later?
    Good plan, except no can do. There is no API for Google tasks. Nothing (that I've found) syncs with GT. As a matter of fact, it pretty much looks like Google is abandoning the effort.

    Now, imagine if Google does abandon the effort. That means that Palm would have concentrated all those man-hours into developing a sync solution to a disappearing platform. That's a prime example of why that have to play this out and makde well thought out decisions on the routes to go, and carfully guage their direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    And I mentioned above, but it wasn't touched on, I don't think apps like Agendus and Datebook and Pocket Informer can touch webOS. They can't access anything to build off of because Palm has it pretty much locked down. I think Pimlico even expressed how much access they had in the iPhone to design their app but elsewhere has been more or a struggle. Go figure on that one.
    Actually, apps can do so, they just aren't following Palm's "rules" when they do (Agenda is a good example, it's able to access the data, but has to use unsupported calls to do so).

    I suspect that's going to change eventually, but I also suspect that Palm is looking at how to do it in a controlled way, so 3rd party apps don't walk all over native apps and each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    I will say I'm very impressed with the stock clock/alarm, especially with the days patch added in. Much better than anything stock from the other companies.
    You know, it's funny. When I first looked at the Alarm Clock I thought "Yuk, pretty basic looking". Then one time I had to use it (I had a very early morning plane to catch, and didn't want to wake my wife). I was surprised at how well it works, how easy it is to use, and the weird music actually wakes me up. No mean feat, that.
  19. #199  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    it's a homebrew app. so it's a separate app, not incorporated into the views of the calendar app, and the formatting is a bit lackluster. way too much white space for it to be that useful. but I don't program, and can't do any better so.... but that's why i don't donate. I just keep looking for updates when in preware. even the thread is stagnant since i posted. if it was improved, I'd be happy to donate.
    Agenda is a seperate HomeBrew app.

    Yes, your correct that it's not "incorporated into the views of the Calendar", because he would have had to have had Palm change that for him.

    He went the other route, and achieved basically the same thing. Agenda shows the upcoming events from the Calendar. If you need to see the full calendar, there is a button you select for that view (it calls the Calendar app). It's also got a button for QuickEvent.

    As far as white space, I have mine set to show location, notes, etc, but if I turn off all the "extras" I get about a half dozen events without scrolling, and scrolling through to see the rest is very fast.

    Part of the problem with the size is, again, you have to be able to select them with your finger, not a stylus.
  20. #200  
    you can always edit from day or week. For me and some others, we just want to see what we have going on for the next week or two. So the more info you can see in one spot without flicking, the better. But I'm sure my needs and the developer's aren't one in the same. It'd be nice to be able to adjust spacing and font size so you could appeal to people that just need to view upcoming appts and those that want it as their working view. I'd pony up for that.

    but again, agenda view is basic and should be a part of the calendar app. It's an app he shouldn't have to develop.

    another is the basic speed dial. Gone from palm os. Would be nice to have them underneath the dialer. Would take just a little flick. Bring up the dialer and a little flick up shows them. Or maybe a flick up in the gesture are from home could bring up speed dials or extend the quick launch page. Don't think a flick up from home does anything.
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