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  1. Rhody's Avatar
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    #21  
    It is possible to be right and diplomatic at the same time.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by jack87 View Post
    Palm I really can not understand why you went ahead and disabled some of our features that you wrote yourself but we had to figure out how to unlock.
    Everyone of them is very much harmless but very productive to us.

    01. Add/remove pages in launcher
    02. Messaging time stamps
    03. Time duration in phone app
    04. Where nameless caller is from in phone app
    05. Landscape email
    06. Text forwarding
    07. Amazon 3g downloading
    08. Roam Only (this is questionable but I feel like it is important not necessarily a must since it scares sprint)
    09. 15 second sleep timer and always on (or maybe just 1hr)
    10. Showing of all day events in month calendar view
    and so much more
    11. Landscape PDF Viewer (might be a bit glitchy still)
    12. Character counter

    I am sure I am forgetting some of the mods. I would love to see people post some other mods that have helped us enjoy the pre to its max I will keep updating the list. Please only post the mods that are harmless and useful for day to day use and do not jeopardize the integrity of palm and web-os.

    Please voice the importance of these features to you.

    Palm with this list we hope you look over the posted items and reconsider hiding them from us. and perhaps enabling them all in an official update in the near future.
    Well, let's all agree that they didn't intentionally disable them...they just changed files that we changed and overwrote them. We are outside of their code branch...and there is no "merge"...so our changes just get tossed. I know Jack understands that, but let's just get that fact out front for others who may think Palm is doing something nefarious. I think many of us who were changing those files expected this to happen...and expect it again. If you want to avoid it, copy the app entirely, give it a different name and ID and mod that.

    With regards to your point Jack, I agree...some of them should be left in (e.g., add/delete launcher pages)...but I imagine others haven't been for one of three reasons:

    1) They are not yet confident enough that the capability is mature (e.g., landscape PDF)

    2) Sprint doesn't want us to have the capability (e.g., 3G Amazon downloads, call timers, roam-only)

    3) They don't agree with our UI preferences (e.g., messaging app timestamps...which, BTW, I don't use because I don't like it...and I am the one who documented how to do it on the PreDev wiki )


    But yeah, I agree...this community has provided a lot of useful UI feedback and even some implementation and Palm should be listening...so get on it Palm...and give me "mark all as read", "delete all", and "empty trash" in my email app while you are in there!

    cheers,
    Steve
  3. #23  
    Its wild how people will jump all over someone for nothing. We all have Palm devices and want a stable OS. I dont think anyone disagrees with that. It just kinda sucks that the "Add A Launcher Page" hack solves 1 of the biggest aggravating components of the OS (even my mom called me asking how she can have more pages) and the "hack" to enable the feature is a glorified settings switch. I completely understand that there are time constraints and man power constraints and all of those things, but that doesnt make it wrong to be frustrated that you have to gain root on your $300 + Palm Pre to change the text message notification noise, when thats an option on bascially every phone on the market out of the box.

    Give the guy a break

    :-)
  4. IMethos's Avatar
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    #24  
    01. Add/remove pages in launcher
    02. Messaging time stamps
    03. Time duration in phone app
    04. Where nameless caller is from in phone app
    05. Landscape email

    I care about these
  5.    #25  
    Okay it is clear the majority of you do not understand the fact that these mods are mods. these are the original files in web os that contain the code already. these mods are palms code for the most part to get them working all that has been done is uncommented lines of code that already exist. They were always there but disabled out of the box. I guess palm has no need to enable them considering none of you care.
    MatterOfFactJack
  6.    #26  
    First off i probably shouldn't have posted in a forum filled with ignorant users. And there is nothing wrong with being ignorant. The only problem is they take an ego trip by attacking my post. And our was not ment for people who have done the mods but for all Pre owners because these features exist and they are disabled it has nothing to do with the new update taking them out again. I have reapplied my mods within 20min of the update. It is annoying to do so but doable the issue is that not all Pre owners have these simple features that are in fact there and disabled.

    Quote Originally Posted by PreOwned View Post
    You are completely misinterpreting his thread and comments. It has nothing directly to do with webOS 1.1 and the fact it undid any tweaks previously made.

    What he is saying is even prior versions of some of the apps have features which were developed by Palm and exist in the apps, but which are at least temporarily disabled. Take for example the ability to add / delete additional pages from the app launcher.

    The patch for doing that does not introduce all the logic and code necessary for it to work -- the logic is already in the program source. All the patch does is un-comment a few source lines which already exist in the code to make the menu entries visible and usable.

    Thus it is Palm which has "disabled" the feature by commenting it out, although the logic for it is already in the program. There can be at least two plausible explanations for this:

    1) There had not been time to perform enough testing on the feature

    2) They want to be able to quickly introduce "new" features to some apps at a later date, with minimal work on their end.

    If it were number 1 above, one could speculate that by the time webOS 1.1 was released they may have been able to do more testing. But again, taking the app launcher page add/delete as an example, the new source has the same logic still commented out. They neither removed the code (which would make the same patch impossible) nor did they enable the code.

    I think the OP's frustration in the original post is not aimed at webOS 1.1 update per se, but the fact various programs have features which appear to be already coded but commented out.

    Regarding the thread title, by "our" features I think he means program features already in the source, not patches applied.
    Right on the money! It's about time we start testing some of these features.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhyde View Post
    If you think Palm intentionally broke your mods you are the most egotistical person I have ever met. Get off your damn high horse and realize that Palm is updating the system, with updates, things break - especially things that are NOT LEGIT.

    Of course they would love to add every feature everyone asks for, but it's a matter of man power and priority, and franking, forwarding a text or whatever other silly feature you want is on the list, but by far not a priority.
    They indeed are ligit and are not my features i am asking for. you dont see copy and past anywhere in there do you or auto focus cam and video those are features i would want but am not asking for any none existent features it is clear that everything i have listed is already part of palm pre and web os.
    Quote Originally Posted by Binary Tech View Post
    I dont understand why your so upset. I just went through and started redoing all the hacks. so far my screen and lock moficiation works the same, Add/Remove pages from the launcher still work the same way as before. you just have to redo them. Boot image replacement works the same also. just get into your phone and redo them once someone makes the modifications easy as a script(i'm doing them manually)

    Edit: hiding Nascar and NFL also worked fine.
    I am not upset i am not complaining either i am stating the fact that palm should perhaps look into some of these simple features like you said its easy you already redid all of yours. i am pleading to palm to make them official sometime in the near future some of these simple things are deal breakers for a lot of people on owning this phone or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane112358 View Post
    OP, if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

    Palm *could* have broken the ability to get to root. They didn't.
    Palm *could* have specifically overwritten all the open mods out there. They didn't.
    Palm *could* have done a lot of things to make it more difficult for us. They didn't.

    There simply is no other way to do it.
    you simply dont see the big picture. I am saying that the features should be there so they can keep overwriting on other large updates but nothing to worry about because some of these simple things we have learned to love gotten used to on other phones still work on probably the very most advanced phone on the market.
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypetey View Post
    The items the OP is taking about make sense to have, but not if it means having a buggy phone. These so called "hidden" features will come when the OS is ready for them. Patience is key, but if you want to hack, you can still do that.

    OP expressed frustration at Palm for disabling his hacks. We were just pointing out that Palm's choice was really no choice at all. They need a stable OS, and cannot have one with untested code.

    Simple logic proves we are right, and there is no need to get over ourselves when we are right.
    There were many things that made this a buggy phone to start with and still is which is why we are getting updates constantly I am yet to see an update not aimed to fixing the bugs. So having these features maybe in short burst will allow mass testing and faster to identify bugs and with the great community of this fourm (or so i thought) would even help fix their issues which they have in the past.
    MatterOfFactJack
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by scuba_steve View Post
    Well, let's all agree that they didn't intentionally disable them...they just changed files that we changed and overwrote them. We are outside of their code branch...and there is no "merge"...so our changes just get tossed. I know Jack understands that, but let's just get that fact out front for others who may think Palm is doing something nefarious. I think many of us who were changing those files expected this to happen...and expect it again. If you want to avoid it, copy the app entirely, give it a different name and ID and mod that.

    With regards to your point Jack, I agree...some of them should be left in (e.g., add/delete launcher pages)...but I imagine others haven't been for one of three reasons:

    1) They are not yet confident enough that the capability is mature (e.g., landscape PDF)

    2) Sprint doesn't want us to have the capability (e.g., 3G Amazon downloads, call timers, roam-only)

    3) They don't agree with our UI preferences (e.g., messaging app timestamps...which, BTW, I don't use because I don't like it...and I am the one who documented how to do it on the PreDev wiki )


    But yeah, I agree...this community has provided a lot of useful UI feedback and even some implementation and Palm should be listening...so get on it Palm...and give me "mark all as read", "delete all", and "empty trash" in my email app while you are in there!

    cheers,
    Steve
    I have no problem with them overwriting it with this update of course it was bound to happen. and in the stuff thet i believe might need more focus before releasing or are just not doable for one reason or another i put () in a note next to them. you are right Steve I have no problem with them being overwritten this update just want palm to look into them one more time and reconsider making them official as i mentioned in my OP seems like a lot of the replies are putting words into my mouth.

    by the way i love the timestamps and thanks again for figuring it out.
    Last edited by jack87; 07/24/2009 at 12:49 PM.
    MatterOfFactJack
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by jack87 View Post
    Okay it is clear the majority of you do not understand the fact that these mods are mods. these are the original files in web os that contain the code already. these mods are palms code for the most part to get them working all that has been done is uncommented lines of code that already exist. They were always there but disabled out of the box. I guess palm has no need to enable them considering none of you care.
    Why would palm deativate lines of code? Could it be that it isn't entirely stable (likely), or might it be that Palm would like some news grabber updates later on (more likely).

    I wouldn't mind seeing some of the items you metioned show up at a later date, and I give you full kudos for activating the code now. Having to do your work over again can be a pain, but at least you can still modify the code. Palm could go Apple on you and kill all rooted Pre's.

    Have fun moding your Pre, but don't be suprised if it gets undone on a later update.
  9.    #29  
    and one more time for those who do not realize what i am saying

    I want palm to reconsider keeping these features hidden/disabled I am not complaining what so ever I didn't even need to write this post all the features i want are already re enabled on my pre. Just think if palm saw the importance these have to the pre owners rather then changing my notification sound they might become available officially.

    sorry to sound like a broken record repeating the same thing over and over but it is clear a lot of people dont get it unless they hear it over and over and over
    MatterOfFactJack
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by jack87 View Post
    First off i probably shouldn't have posted in a forum filled with ignorant users. And there is nothing wrong with being ignorant. The only problem is they take an ego trip by attacking my post. And our was not ment for people who have done the mods but for all Pre owners because these features exist and they are disabled it has nothing to do with the new update taking them out again. I have reapplied my mods within 20min of the update. It is annoying to do so but doable the issue is that not all Pre owners have these simple features that are in fact there and disabled.
    Well many ignorant users did explain why your thread title was actually ignorant. They were not "our" features, they were Palms unreleased features. On any other platform, you would not see these, because commented code would have not made it into the compiled version.

    This is just an echoing of the same thing over and over again. Anyone who has worked on an enterprise level project has seen one little piece of code cause some weird failure, because of insufficient testing. It happens. We do not know why it is not enabled by Palm yet. You can only be pissed about it. Grow up. It is software development with a long QA queue.

    Quote Originally Posted by jack87 View Post
    sorry to sound like a broken record repeating the same thing over and over but it is clear a lot of people dont get it unless they hear it over and over and over
    Actually we all get that you are pissed about it. Not agreeing with it isn't the same as not "get"ting it. There are many reasons given to you as to why Palm would not do it. I've been on their side of it many times. I've also enabled features that I shouldn't have and taken the heat when all hell broke loose. Never want to be there again and have those customer support calls billed to our over anxious team again.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by jack87 View Post
    There were many things that made this a buggy phone to start with and still is which is why we are getting updates constantly I am yet to see an update not aimed to fixing the bugs. So having these features maybe in short burst will allow mass testing and faster to identify bugs and with the great community of this fourm (or so i thought) would even help fix their issues which they have in the past.
    You are right. Some aspects of the Pre have been buggy, and there have been several updates to correct bugs.

    This community has been all over Palm to do the things you mentioned. The response you have been recieving in your thread was due to the poorly worded nature of your original post. I see that you have corrected it, and it does sound better.

    You came off as a whiny, know-it-all with your first post, even though you didn't mean to. Kudos for changing your OP to clarify your position. I tend to agree with your new assessment.
  12. #32  
    I wasn't trying to jump all over you.

    This thread should be called features we want though.

    I agree, I want all those features and more.
  13. 1PTUser's Avatar
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    #33  
    My guess on the current limit of 3 launcher pages... When the app catalog finally gets beyond beta and the "flood gates" are open for new apps, a WebOs update will include a new feature that adds launcher pages. Without homebrew and with so few apps in the app catalog, most people (not all) don't need more than 3 or 4 pages.
    Palm is likely maintaining a much broader view of the impact that little changes may have positively or negatively across their developing ecosystem. Additionally, they may have plans for roll-outs with multiple changes that affect an app or system function. We may not even be seeing all they intend to deliver in these areas.
  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    Well many ignorant users did explain why your thread title was actually ignorant. They were not "our" features, they were Palms unreleased features. On any other platform, you would not see these, because commented code would have not made it into the compiled version.

    This is just an echoing of the same thing over and over again. Anyone who has worked on an enterprise level project has seen one little piece of code cause some weird failure, because of insufficient testing. It happens. We do not know why it is not enabled by Palm yet. You can only be pissed about it. Grow up. It is software development with a long QA queue.



    Actually we all get that you are pissed about it. But that doesn't mean we don't "get" it. There are many reasons given to you as to why Palm would not do it. I've been on their side of it many times. I've also enabled features that I shouldn't have and taken the heat when all hell broke loose. Never want to be there again and have those customer support calls billed to our over anxious team again.
    Wow! once again i am not pissed i do not understand where this is coming from not a complaint i am asking palm to perhaps focus a bit on these features and indeed release some for mass testing and such if possible it sure is our features it is the features we were used to on our old phones or other devices

    This thread has definitely shinned a new light on my views of this community.

    and i really do not know how much i have to repeat the same thing over and over on a two page thread which is all stated on the OP. my frustration lys with the majority of the replies to this thread not with palm i am not a moron i understand why they may not be here yet this is a little boost to palm to perhaps look into them they are indeed a deal breaker to a lot of people go read some of the why i returned my pre posts (i havent read any but my guess is for a lot of the stuff listed in this thread) when people plead about eas palm listened which was also a deal breaker for most.
    Last edited by jack87; 07/24/2009 at 01:03 PM.
    MatterOfFactJack
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwdv22 View Post
    I wasn't trying to jump all over you.

    This thread should be called features we want though.

    I agree, I want all those features and more.
    There is a million features we want as i said copy and paste, video, auto focus, compass. **** list goes on and on and on there is a million of those. all the features i mentioned to fit that category they are features that do indeed exist and that we have all had for years from other phones and no i am not comparing pre to other phones so i dont want to hear this bs about pre is different i know it is. these are things that already exist for this phone i am trying to pave the way for more focus on palms end. i am sure more people are lookin for add/remove pages then there were eas.

    once again i am repeating myself
    MatterOfFactJack
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1PTUser View Post
    My guess on the current limit of 3 launcher pages... When the app catalog finally gets beyond beta and the "flood gates" are open for new apps, a WebOs update will include a new feature that adds launcher pages. Without homebrew and with so few apps in the app catalog, most people (not all) don't need more than 3 or 4 pages.
    Palm is likely maintaining a much broader view of the impact that little changes may have positively or negatively across their developing ecosystem. Additionally, they may have plans for roll-outs with multiple changes that affect an app or system function. We may not even be seeing all they intend to deliver in these areas.
    funny thing is we can uses pages for other stuff then just apps but really with 3 pages who wants to load up a page with shortcuts and a page with contacts. then one cramped paged with apps.
    MatterOfFactJack
  17. bmccoy68's Avatar
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    #37  
    Obviously Palm will turn the features on when they feel they are ready. That is not today. Perhaps a more productive thread would be to list the features that you think should be enabled, in a poll and let people vote for the ones most important to them. That way Palm, will know what ones to focus attention on. Maybe you will get a few of them enabled on the next update.

    That way people can just argue over what one is the most important rather then if you are a complainer or not.

    Personally I hope they do turn on some of them soon. They seem like some pretty good stuff to me.
  18. #38  
    This thread is full of ignorance... understand what the OP is saying before you post, otherwise you just sound like a troll.

    His comments/requests make absolutely-perfect sense. Palm should have had plenty of time to address the testing/etc for these features... Just because Palm spent time/money developing this code doesn't mean there's a "good reason," for disabling them... like mentioned, it could be to roll-out features at a later date, to 'impress' Pre owners...

    Or, more likely, Palm is a corporation, big companies are highly-inefficient. I can't begin to describe some of the stupid crap that goes on at my company... millions, and millions of dollars are wasted yearly, if not monthly sometimes.
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmccoy68 View Post
    Obviously Palm will turn the features on when they feel they are ready. That is not today. Perhaps a more productive thread would be to list the features that you think should be enabled, in a poll and let people vote for the ones most important to them. That way Palm, will know what ones to focus attention on. Maybe you will get a few of them enabled on the next update.

    That way people can just argue over what one is the most important rather then if you are a complainer or not.

    Personally I hope they do turn on some of them soon. They seem like some pretty good stuff to me.
    haha indeed of course not today just hopes palm will consider them for the near future and not put them off till all these old iphone owners sign up with new contract with other phoens since the 30day period of pre didn't meet the most simplest of needs.

    as for the poll haha my OP was posted at 3am otherwise it was originally going to be a poll but just didn't have the energy at the time also i wasnt sure if i had everything listed so i wanted some input from others before the poll. i was going to look at adding this morning but seems like a waste of my time now.
    MatterOfFactJack
  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMaker View Post
    This thread is full of ignorance... understand what the OP is saying before you post, otherwise you just sound like a troll.

    His comments/requests make absolutely-perfect sense. Palm should have had plenty of time to address the testing/etc for these features... Just because Palm spent time/money developing this code doesn't mean there's a "good reason," for disabling them... like mentioned, it could be to roll-out features at a later date, to 'impress' Pre owners...

    Or, more likely, Palm is a corporation, big companies are highly-inefficient. I can't begin to describe some of the stupid crap that goes on at my company... millions, and millions of dollars are wasted yearly, if not monthly sometimes.
    exactly just a little push for palm to get the ball rolling.

    Once again to the rest of you i am not upset at palm i am not complaining in the OP. i have no need to i have all the features i want from the list enabled.

    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypetey View Post

    You came off as a whiny, know-it-all with your first post, even though you didn't mean to. Kudos for changing your OP to clarify your position. I tend to agree with your new assessment.
    Hum i don't know where the whiny know-it-all comes off my OP from the start has stated that i was asking for palm to look closely into it. the only thing i can think of changing it adding the () for downloading amazon music. but there really is no new assessment. maybe a reread helped you understand better

    I dont feel like i was whinnying one bit but stating a few facts in hopes to catch palm's eye.
    Last edited by jack87; 07/24/2009 at 01:21 PM.
    MatterOfFactJack
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