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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Storing the track ID and position in the timeline in some variable, cookie or database table is trivial. Palm is very clear about the need to save state in webOS applications. Why doesn't it follow its own guidelines?

    OK, so how should they do it? Should they write the current track and location to a database record every second? Half second? Minute? Five minutes? Realizing that by the time the update query was complete, the song would have advanced and it'd be time to write a new record, of course. Maybe a cookie since it's webOS after all, but again you run in to the problem of once the update is complete, it's already outdated. Maybe it can be a call when you quit the music app? But even then, you need to go and update the code to check for this each time and remember to clear it if you do accept a previous state. Oh right! Test it, can't forget testing. Except that, being a Linux based system, odds are that the OS is prompting another application to actually play the file, and turns out that app doesn't return any value until the end of the song, at which point the Music player knows to start a new one. So now we need to go and write an entirely new application to actually play the song, so that'll go fast.

    Yeah, trivial.
    Last edited by eddieroger; 07/24/2009 at 08:30 AM. Reason: adding context of a quote
  2. #82  
    WebOS 1.1 is a nice update. But they need about 3-4 more of these to get the Pre where it should be. It is still way too slow and lacks some features that really should have been there from the start.

    So, good job on 1.1 Palm! But dont think you can stop and take a break, you need to keep running!
  3. PreBro132's Avatar
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    #83  
    I just want the hardware to be better
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by eddieroger View Post
    OK, so how should they do it? Should they write the current track and location to a database record every second? Half second? Minute? Five minutes? Realizing that by the time the update query was complete, the song would have advanced and it'd be time to write a new record, of course. Maybe a cookie since it's webOS after all, but again you run in to the problem of once the update is complete, it's already outdated. Maybe it can be a call when you quit the music app? But even then, you need to go and update the code to check for this each time and remember to clear it if you do accept a previous state. Oh right! Test it, can't forget testing. Except that, being a Linux based system, odds are that the OS is prompting another application to actually play the file, and turns out that app doesn't return any value until the end of the song, at which point the Music player knows to start a new one. So now we need to go and write an entirely new application to actually play the song, so that'll go fast.

    Yeah, trivial.
    Actually, I think it is fairly trivial. The app will know when it is minimized and when it is closed. A write to the cookie or depot storage at the cleanup method would handle storing the filename and track time. I don't doubt this will be added in the future. As a programmer, assuming seek to restore position is in there, it is fairly trivial. There is no reason to constantly update this until a quit or minimize.
  5. emuneee's Avatar
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    #85  
    I know it's been repeated over and over again, but there is A LOT more than meets the eye with mobile devices. As a hardware engineer myself, non-technical consumers/customers (most you all) do not understand the intricacies involved with adding new features and the impact it has on the rest of the system. I am sure if Palm could add every item on your wish list in 90 days, it would have.

    But, this is the plight engineers face every single day. Design a device the consumer wants at the price the consumer is willing to pay. I don't even own a Palm Pre, but I applaud Palm for their effort. This is the third software update since the device debuted. There is not another handset manufacturer updating their software more than Palm.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by PreBro132 View Post
    I just want the hardware to be better
    I checked, and my slider is still loose after the update. <TonyHarrison>This is an outrage!</TonyHarrison>
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by emuneee View Post
    I know it's been repeated over and over again, but there is A LOT more than meets the eye with mobile devices. As a hardware engineer myself, non-technical consumers/customers (most you all) do not understand the intricacies involved with adding new features and the impact it has on the rest of the system. I am sure if Palm could add every item on your wish list in 90 days, it would have.

    But, this is the plight engineers face every single day. Design a device the consumer wants at the price the consumer is willing to pay. I don't even own a Palm Pre, but I applaud Palm for their effort. This is the third software update since the device debuted. There is not another handset manufacturer updating their software more than Palm.
    Well, it is nice to have empathy for them and all. But you dont get rich off your stock options by doing something easy. If Palm wants to save themselves and carve out a place in the mobile device market they need to deliver a competitive product. Period. No excuses about how hard it is.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by emuneee View Post
    I know it's been repeated over and over again, but there is A LOT more than meets the eye with mobile devices. As a hardware engineer myself, non-technical consumers/customers (most you all) do not understand the intricacies involved with adding new features and the impact it has on the rest of the system. I am sure if Palm could add every item on your wish list in 90 days, it would have.

    But, this is the plight engineers face every single day. Design a device the consumer wants at the price the consumer is willing to pay. I don't even own a Palm Pre, but I applaud Palm for their effort. This is the third software update since the device debuted. There is not another handset manufacturer updating their software more than Palm.
    That's not an engineer plight. The product managers and sales people decide what's really important and should go out first and what can wait for later fixes, aka nice to have.

    With all due respect, implementing stupid emoticons while the music player is non viable for podcasts and audio books is asinine.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by bryanharig View Post
    Well, it is nice to have empathy for them and all. But you dont get rich off your stock options by doing something easy. If Palm wants to save themselves and carve out a place in the mobile device market they need to deliver a competitive product. Period. No excuses about how hard it is.
    They have. It's a very competitive smart phone.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    But it is easy to do. I would've loved to fix it myself if Palm accepted my services (half kidding.)
    Job ID 4384
    Job Location Sunnyvale
    Job Category Engineering
    Date Posted Mar 18, 2009


    Multimedia Software Engineer

    Overview:

    We are expanding our Multimedia Software team to meet the future needs of Palm customers and our partner carriers. You will collaborate with a multidisciplinary team to enable new system level multimedia capabilities and applications for new handheld and smartphone products. You will be responsible for the complete software development cycle concepts / prototypes, architecture / design, implementation, debug / test and maintenance.

    Duties/Responsibilities:

    Maintain applications and system libraries for the capture, playback, and management of multimedia data (audio, image, and video) across all palmOne products.

    Respond to customer and developer issues, troubleshoot problems and respond with recommendations, patches or upgrades as appropriate.

    Design and implement enhancements to the multimedia libraries and applications, working with internal and external development partners as needed.

    Understand and influence the underlying device hardware and software architectures to obtain optimal performance.

    Propose reasonable trade-offs to achieve acceptable audio, image, and video quality.

    Enhance software robustness, code maintainability, componentization, reuse, and unification.

    Develop and/or review requirements and strategy for future products contribute to the multimedia roadmap.

    Provide technical leadership and good judgment in selecting methods and techniques for obtaining solutions in a particular area.

    Qualifications:

    10+ years of overall software engineering experience

    5+ years working on image, video and/or audio technology

    2+ years working on embedded devices

    Repeated success in completing projects and delivering products to the market
    Required Skills/Experience:

    Design, implementation, performance optimization of image/graphics libraries, or audio/video codecs

    Application and UI development on event-driven systems

    Design and implementation of software frameworks and/or middleware

    C/C++, MS Visual Studio, Metrowerks CodeWarrior, cygwin

    Palm OS, Windows CE/Mobile, Embedded Linux, or other modern embedded RTOS

    Low power, handheld, wireless devices

    Additional Requirements:

    Excellent communication skills, verbal and written

    Team player works well with others, works effectively in a matrixed organization, enjoys interaction with diverse people and skill sets

    Desire and ability to learn new technologies quickly and be able to communicate and teach others

    Able to work on multiple, overlapping projects

    Comfortable taking ownership of major system components and/or providing technical leadership to others

    Excellent problem-solving skills

    Work independently requiring minimal guidance

    Education:

    B.S. in Computer Science, or equivalent
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by PreBro132 View Post
    I just want the hardware to be better
    They are planning on fixing that with webOS 1.2.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Job ID 4384
    Job Location Sunnyvale
    Job Category Engineering
    Date Posted Mar 18, 2009


    Multimedia Software Engineer

    Overview:

    We are expanding our Multimedia Software team to meet the future needs of Palm customers and our partner carriers. You will collaborate with a multidisciplinary team to enable new system level multimedia capabilities and applications for new handheld and smartphone products. You will be responsible for the complete software development cycle concepts / prototypes, architecture / design, implementation, debug / test and maintenance.

    Duties/Responsibilities:

    Maintain applications and system libraries for the capture, playback, and management of multimedia data (audio, image, and video) across all palmOne products.

    Respond to customer and developer issues, troubleshoot problems and respond with recommendations, patches or upgrades as appropriate.

    Design and implement enhancements to the multimedia libraries and applications, working with internal and external development partners as needed.

    Understand and influence the underlying device hardware and software architectures to obtain optimal performance.

    Propose reasonable trade-offs to achieve acceptable audio, image, and video quality.

    Enhance software robustness, code maintainability, componentization, reuse, and unification.

    Develop and/or review requirements and strategy for future products contribute to the multimedia roadmap.

    Provide technical leadership and good judgment in selecting methods and techniques for obtaining solutions in a particular area.

    Qualifications:

    10+ years of overall software engineering experience

    5+ years working on image, video and/or audio technology

    2+ years working on embedded devices

    Repeated success in completing projects and delivering products to the market
    Required Skills/Experience:

    Design, implementation, performance optimization of image/graphics libraries, or audio/video codecs

    Application and UI development on event-driven systems

    Design and implementation of software frameworks and/or middleware

    C/C++, MS Visual Studio, Metrowerks CodeWarrior, cygwin

    Palm OS, Windows CE/Mobile, Embedded Linux, or other modern embedded RTOS

    Low power, handheld, wireless devices

    Additional Requirements:

    Excellent communication skills, verbal and written

    Team player works well with others, works effectively in a matrixed organization, enjoys interaction with diverse people and skill sets

    Desire and ability to learn new technologies quickly and be able to communicate and teach others

    Able to work on multiple, overlapping projects

    Comfortable taking ownership of major system components and/or providing technical leadership to others

    Excellent problem-solving skills

    Work independently requiring minimal guidance

    Education:

    B.S. in Computer Science, or equivalent
    I'm not a multimedia engineer, it's not an area of interest for me and I'm not looking for a new job.

    It would be a witty post, but really the fix does not require any experience with audio.

    I understand that you don't think playing podcasts and audio books is a standard feature of music players nowadays.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I'm not a multimedia engineer, it's not an area of interest for me and I'm not looking for a new job.

    It would be a witty post, but really the fix does not require any experience with audio.

    I understand that you don't think playing podcasts and audio books is a standard feature of music players nowadays.
    I don't play podcast or audio books, but I certainly understand and empathize with the desire of others to do so. It's the "It's easy and I know better than Palm what they should be doing attitude" that I take exception to.

    I could be wrong, but I'm sure they're working on a prioritized list and not just drinking beer.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    I don't play podcast or audio books, but I certainly understand and empathize with the desire of others to do so. It's the "It's easy and I know better than Palm what they should be doing attitude" that I take exception to.

    I could be wrong, but I'm sure they're working on a prioritized list and not just drinking beer.
    It's a trivial fix. It really is.

    Without it a standard feature is broken. It's one fix that's could be done quickly and have real positive impact.

    When I look at these issues, knowing how easy they are to fix makes it even more difficult to accept.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    They have. It's a very competitive smart phone.
    It is mediocre hardware running software that is about 75% of the way there. I agree with sivan, some of the remaining issues are so trivial that it makes them even more annoying then they would be otherwise.

    Scrubbing an audio file? Come on.
  16. groovy's Avatar
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    #96  
    Did I call it?

    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I can't wait for the flood of...

    "what a crappy update!"
    "nothing good in this update!"
    "where's my real cut and paste!"
    "where are all the new apps!"

    I predict this will come before nightfall hits the West Coast.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    It's a trivial fix. It really is.

    Without it a standard feature is broken. It's one fix that's could be done quickly and have real positive impact.

    When I look at these issues, knowing how easy they are to fix makes it even more difficult to accept.
    So why didn't they do it? Just lazy? Stupid? What?
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Did I call it?
    Yeah, but you totally missed the complaint in this thread. And you call yourself a prophet...
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Muyiwafly View Post
    I can't believe Palm did not make an effort to smack Iphone. These updates seem to not be great. I mean come on!! No copy and paste from websites, no video, no nothing that impresses me or I bet impresses Apple users. To think they would make that effort after they're decreased sales in the previous weeks. I could of lived without this update but I hope Palm gets a wake up call soon. I hate Iphone, but they seem to be more business smart. Palm is jerking around if you ask me. Hopefully they give us a real update, an Iphone Killer Upadate!
    I knwo whats going on here.......

    You secrety love the iphone, but hate the stigma attached to being an "apple person". Therefore you buy a device thats slightly different in the hopes that it will meet or exceed your iphone dreams. Why do you care if iphone users are impressed by our updates? Are you hoping one day you'll be able to run to your iphone friend and be like 'LOOK, MY phone can o that TOO!". I mean really, why do you care how someone perceives you simply for usign a mobile device? Shoudnt your life have some more depth to it than that?
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    So why didn't they do it? Just lazy? Stupid? What?
    The way it works is, the code line branches before launch. Issues that are deemed to be needed fixed for launch are fixed on that branch, while issues deferred to post launch are worked on in the main code line.

    Then after launch they look at how the device is doing with users. Critical issues like the ability to email .ipk files get their own emergency branch and are pushed out. Serious issues like Exchange are scheduled for the next release (1.1). The 1.1 release plan is known ahead of time but can accommodate issues that are seen with users actually handling the device.

    Then comes the prioritization of issues, or triage. They needed to balance which fixes go ahead as planned into 1.1 and which are deferred to 1.2 and so on or simply don't get fixed. There is also some friction involved in introducing a new fix into a plan but it is balanced against the effort involved, which in this case is trivial.

    So if we look at the 1.1 release, we see important fixes like Exchange along with nice to have fixes like emoticons, sliding menus and faster photo app. Someone decided that the missing functionality in the Music app was less important than cosmetics.

    It's one thing when the fix is major, say involving major rearchitecting part of the OS, as would be the case with video recording or 3D API's. But when you balance a broken music app against the cosmetic fixes that did get shipped, the only plausible reason is marketing. Visuals look good and create the impression of an evolving OS, vs something that not everybody understands is broken.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
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