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  1. Xyg
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    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinFlaps View Post
    This thread is cracking me up. Sooooo many people in denial.
    No, no you're right, skinflaps. Building a case about product return rates is totally doable on anecdotal evidence alone.

    You sure have showed us

    PS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
  2. Omega33's Avatar
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    #82  
    Well now that i thought about it I don't think we will ever hear hard numbers of the returns. If there is a real problem with defects i'm sure they will follow other companies on QC issues like this. Like microsoft with their 360. As far as i know they never gave actual numbers or a % of how many 360's failed. Just that there was unusually high hardware failures and extended their warrenty for it.

    Now if Pre the is really Palms last chance of staying around ,which i have a hard time believing their company is counting on one device they would never give out an actual % of hardware failures Well even if it isn't their last hope i don't think they would give out hard numbers as i haven't seen many companies do that.

    Well except like car companies, which have to do recalls since their mistakes can actually kill people.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega33 View Post
    Well now that i thought about it I don't think we will ever hear hard numbers of the returns. If there is a real problem with defects i'm sure they will follow other companies on QC issues like this. Like microsoft with their 360. As far as i know they never gave actual numbers or a % of how many 360's failed. Just that there was unusually high hardware failures and extended their warrenty for it.

    Now if Pre the is really Palms last chance of staying around ,which i have a hard time believing their company is counting on one device they would never give out an actual % of hardware failures Well even if it isn't their last hope i don't think they would give out hard numbers as i haven't seen many companies do that.

    Well except like car companies, which have to do recalls since their mistakes can actually kill people.
    If you would go back and read the reports, I'm sure Microsoft would have mentioned the 360's returns to their investors, if it had an impact on the bottom line. I'm sure if the 360 were no longer here today, MS would be okay.

    If palm's pre went away today, palm would be back to Microsoft (palm Pro2? LOL). But you are right, even if returns are at 40% (and no one knows if they are... no one talking anyway), then palm might not be so forthcoming on mentioning that fact. Of course, you may be able to extrapolate the information from the numbers provided.
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  4. firstimer's Avatar
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    #84  
    I can't speak for anybody else, but I read these posts and it baffles me. I own a Pre. I returned 1 pre due to reception issues ( thats really the main reason we buy a phone) and the oreo. Got a second and both concerns are corrected. I will be the first to say that I am not " cell phone savvy". I read many of these posts and I get the feeling that many others are in the same boat as well. We've all ( most of us) come to these forums for one thing.. the Pre. We share info, experiences. I personally feel ( and I'm going to get flamed for this) that it appears that those of us that are not " Bill Gates Tech Savvy" on our Pre, get talked down too. I like the phone, I want to learn more about it. It did take me some time to get more experienced on my WinMo device I had before.I read the posts, the tips and, again sorry, alot of its Greek to me. It might help many of us if the savvy people have a little more patience ( I know, with all the stuff going on with the Pre it might be hard) and help those who want to learn. Who might need it simplified, NOT talked down too. Just a thought
  5. Omega33's Avatar
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    #85  
    I would just ignore anyone or any post that you feel talks down to you. I never pay any attention to most those posts myself.

    Well actually i get a laugh out of them. Any board you go to that is dedicated to a specific topic is going to have people like that or fanboys ( no shortage of them here ) etc... There are plenty of people of here that are more than happy to help out when people have a question or problem.
  6. firstimer's Avatar
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    #86  
    I think that many people, maybe even myself, were so concerned about the oreo or the crack screen or the this or that, that we might have held off from getting truly into the Pre for fear of it letting us down. I have a back up phone, but I know that, for me to enjoy the Pre experience, its better to learn more about the phones workings. In a way, I think Palm is hurting them selves, at least in the eyes of non-Pre users. By not giving the return rate info, you make it so that the " insiders" can almost make up un-scientific results. Now that upsets us, but its probably more damaging to the potential Pre users. It might be better for Palm to say "yes we have had ( possible) QC issues, but we have worked to correct those concerns" rather than just not say nothing and hope it goes away.
    Last edited by firstimer; 07/24/2009 at 08:20 AM. Reason: typo
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinFlaps View Post
    I'm starting to think that Palm fanboys are just as bad as Apple fanboys. Afraid to accept reality.
    I am surprised it took you so long to come to this conclusion.
  8. #88  
    I watched that Cramer segment yesterday - my wife actually called me downstairs and said 'that Cramer guy is going to bash Palm - can you handle that?!' - knowing my love for all things Palm.

    My take is this:

    While yes he does sensationalize for the benefit of ratings grab, and you have to take that into account, I will also say that his points on Palm's future viability are valid, WHEN IT COMES TO STOCK and the financial aspects. Is one product enough to carry the company for the next 12 months (don't tell me VZ is going to pick up the Pre/eOs whatever - I'll believe it when I see it - same with ATT - PLUS - both those carriers had the Centro; how did that work out for Palm for the last couple of years?). And - having that one product on Sprint for the conceivable future - that also is less than positive for the future of the company.

    It all gets down to Palm's relative competitive position in the current market. Let's review the major competitors:

    RIM: killing it, with a ton of devices across all carriers, and tons more coming. They release a new product for pretty each one of their carriers about 6 months - THAT is what the carriers want; not a new product every 2 years (Palm - are you listening). Tons of advertising weight, both their own and the carriers' money as well. Granted, RIM has lost some of the 'cool factor' lately, compared specifically to iPhone and WebOS, but their results speak for themselves.

    Apple - iPhone is becoming ubiquitous, as much as it kills me. 'nuff said there.

    Samsung/LG - let's call this the 'other' category (but the reality is these guys are HEAVILY encroaching on Palm's territory of the low end smartphone.). How many young people do you see with these quasi-smartphones with full qwerty - either slide out or slide up, like the Rant or the eNVY, etc. They're flooding the low end market.

    And I haven't even mentioned Nokia or Motorola or HTC.

    So - put all your emotional investment in Palm aside (very hard to do, even me, having used Palm or Palm OS devices since 1995) and ask yourself this question (the same one Cramer is asking) - does Palm REALLY have the might to stand up against those competitors? On one struggling lower tier carrier (Sprint), in the US only?

    THAT is the question the investment analysts and even TV schlocks like Cramer are asking, and I think the answer is clear.
  9. #89  
    Don't know how people can stand watching his show... Jim Cramer is freaking annoying...
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by SharonW View Post
    Uh huh. You joined this site two days ago (and I say that only because it's 5 a.m.) and in one of your posts said you're on day two of your Pre making your purchase date 7/20, and yet you've already, by your own posts, exchanged it twice and are now going for a third time? Yeah. Right. Troll. Short much?
    What does my time on this site have to do with anything? I've been following the Pre since it was unveiled at CES and have been on one of the other forums for a while now. I've probably spent more time reading reviews, watching videos, and reading threads about the Pre than I have actually spent owning the phone.

    Just because I've only been on THIS forum for a few days and I'm trying to make a point about QC doesn't make me a Troll.

    If I didn't LOVE the Pre, I wouldn't have bought one. I love my Blackberry but I still chose to pay a $200 cancellation fee and spend the money on the Pre in spite of what I knew I was getting myself in to.

    We can all agree that the Pre is an awesome device or we wouldn't all be on these forums. I don't have enough time in my day to hop around on forums and be a "troll".

    Just because the poll on this forum isn't "scientific data" doesn't make it any less credible, and calling it "anecdotal evidence" is downright laughable. Most statistics are based on surveys, this is no different.

    I don't think it's fair to come up with an actual failure rate based on the poll, but I DO think it's fair to extrapolate that there is an unusually high failure rate. Too many people are experiencing problems that they should not have to when buying a $300 smart phone.

    It's ok to love your Pre, but stop trying to pretend that Palm didn't drop the ball on QC.
  11. rtlsnke's Avatar
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    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by SharonW View Post
    LOL! Hey, I'm not the one doing the humpin'! And what? It's not lady-like to shake your leg to get rid of the little beast?
    ROFL!!!!
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I am surprised it took you so long to come to this conclusion.
  13. mtgmt's Avatar
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    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by SharonW View Post
    Cramer has made both very good calls and very bad ones. Nobody in this business bats 1000. Regardless of whether I agree with him or not, on this issue I surely don't because while I know there have been hardware issues the poll conducted here is not scientific. There's no barrier to entry. No way of verifying data.

    But, Jim does move stocks. Palm will take a big hit tomorrow. It already got battered around this week thanks again to that analyst who issued his assessment based on the poll done here.
    Jim Cramer absolutely is terrible at calling stks if you do opposite he says you will make money
    his WIFE is a better picker than he is. im sorry but its like dave ramsey, let me tell you how to manage your money from someone that went bankrupt! come on, its common sense but far to often it comes to late to have an effect. Jims picks are way off, but that being said they are good to watch as they eventually make a move. Isrg he said sell, it botled 45 points hmmmm go figure
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    #94  
    and ISRG is up another 6+ today

    right on!
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treolo View Post
    Don't know how people can stand watching his show... Jim Cramer is freaking annoying...
    Jim Cramer is basically slashdot. The only reason his picks do ok short term is because tons of idiots watch his show, do what he says, and create temporary, artificial blips in stock performances. Remember all of the stock spam that people were getting a few years ago? Its like buying one of those.
  16. YeOj#WN's Avatar
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    #96  
    I'm with you SkinFlaps and I have been with this forum for a while now. I have had a Pre since launch day and I'm on my 4th pre. I have been dealing with Palm support now since my 30 day return period is up. Palm's support has been fantastic in trying to resolve my issues but they have failed miserably each time. In fact I just got off the phone with support after declining my second brand new unit that they have sent me. I am done with trying to get a Pre that doesn't have numerous stuck pixels and light leakage around the screen. Apparently these issues are normal according to Palm which is sad if you ask me. The supervisor I have been dealing with told me that their engineers have deemed my issues normal and within spec for a cell phone. I've never seen anything like this with any other cell phone I have ever owned.

    I have had two brand new Pre's sent to me straight from Sunnyvale California that were both inspected by a Palm employee before being shipped. Both of them arrived with stuck pixels and major light leakage around the screen. On the second unit Palm supposedly opened 5 brand new Pre's and sent me the best one of the lot. It has the same issues - 7-8 stuck pixels and major light leakage around the screen.

    At this point I have given up and I am keeping my current pre that has very little light leakage but 7-8 stuck pixels. So, I for one am glad to see Palm get a little bad press over this since they are too stuborn to admit that they have a manufacturing issue here. Most of the people that aren't complaining probably just don't know what to look for and your average person is not going to notice these issues. But that doesn't mean there is not an issue.

    WebOs is fantastic and is one of the reasons that I will live with the flaws. Palm gave me the option to get a full refund today and I declined. I do like the Pre, in fact I love it. I just wish the quality control was a LOT better. I hope they learn a lesson here and correct these issues for the Pre 2 or any other future WebOs devices.
  17. #97  
    I think he is kind of right, not about all the bashing of the pre, but apple stock seems like the better stock to own from this point forward, until palm releases another device.
  18. akarol's Avatar
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    #98  
    Apple stocks are already to high to make any significant profit. Unless you're investing millions, stick to cheap stocks like Palm. At about $13/share, the sky is the limit. I don't think it'll get much lower. The WebOS is here to stay and if they even sense a risk in losing ground, they can just outsource their OS to non-Palm devices.
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    #99  
    BTW, Cramer is a moron for calling Palm a one-product-company. Does he realize that WebOS and the Pre are not the same?! Sure, sales for the Pre will eventually dwindle, as with any device, but the WebOS is something that will be recurring, generating lots and lots of interest for future products to come. And as I mentioned before, can always be outsources to other non-Palm devices, generating huge revenue for Palm.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by akarol View Post
    BTW, Cramer is a moron for calling Palm a one-product-company. Does he realize that WebOS and the Pre are not the same?! Sure, sales for the Pre will eventually dwindle, as with any device, but the WebOS is something that will be recurring, generating lots and lots of interest for future products to come. And as I mentioned before, can always be outsources to other non-Palm devices, generating huge revenue for Palm.
    I agree. WebOS is something to stand behind.
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