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  1.    #1  
    The Foleo brings back memories. All bad in reguards to Palm's technical direction and financial health.

    I called it correctly, after I asked a few questions about Foleo. I knew this was a bomb that would blow-up in Palm's face! I was interested when I first heard of Foleo, thinking it would transmit everything on the Palm to a large screen. But, found out it would only show a couple of things and it was really a seperate device only to add to Treo's and Palm's. This to me was Nuts!

    Well we all know the out come of Foleo. But anyone like myself, could see this was a looser! It was almost like a raider infiltrated Palm, grabbed the company's money and threw it out the window! There are many machinations in the corporate finacial world.

    Hmm? about this Pre?
    Seems if Palm had to have cash fast, they would have threw a Big screen on their existing Treo's back over a year ago!

    Hmm? ...then later when (ready) "Pre"?
  2. #2  
    It almost seems as if you're trying to repost the original "why" post about the Pre. The fact is that the Palm OS was getting pretty long in the tooth. In addition, it was a PDA os that was patched up to work on a phone. Finally, though Palm was arguably the original pioneer in the field, the truth is that that SmartPhone industry has changed from what it was when Palm first jumped in the water. It was time for a change. I think they nailed it with WebOS.

    However, one of the unfortunate aspects of something like that is that when you decide to start over, if you try to keep the original ingredients, you frequently just end up with another mess. I think Palm made the right decision to start afresh. I also think with a little maturing, the company will be back stronger, better, and more innovative than before.
  3. #3  
    I always found it interesting that the Foleo was such a bad idea, but now netbooks are all the rage.

    Was Palm just ahead of their time?
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by raremage View Post
    I always found it interesting that the Foleo was such a bad idea, but now netbooks are all the rage.

    Was Palm just ahead of their time?
    You keep posting this thought, thread after thread, but don't seem to realize the Foleo was a one-trick pony.

    The Foleo simply "enlarged" the information displayed on the Treo. Not much more. It was a total joke.

    A netbook, on the other hand, runs a full operating system, Windows XP, Vista, Linux, OSX, etc. It's capable of anything a regular computer is. So MUCH more capable than a Foleo (i.e. Treo).

    Apples to Oranges.

    So, no, Palm wasn't ahead of their time. They dropped the ball and it almost put them in the coffin.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by ericshmerick View Post
    You keep posting this thought, thread after thread, but don't seem to realize the Foleo was a one-trick pony.

    The Foleo simply "enlarged" the information displayed on the Treo. Not much more. It was a total joke.
    And yet the Redfly was a very well-received product.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  6. #6  
    oh *SNAP*
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by ericshmerick View Post
    You keep posting this thought, thread after thread, but don't seem to realize the Foleo was a one-trick pony.

    The Foleo simply "enlarged" the information displayed on the Treo. Not much more. It was a total joke.

    A netbook, on the other hand, runs a full operating system, Windows XP, Vista, Linux, OSX, etc. It's capable of anything a regular computer is. So MUCH more capable than a Foleo (i.e. Treo).

    Apples to Oranges.

    So, no, Palm wasn't ahead of their time. They dropped the ball and it almost put them in the coffin.
    The foleo was a good idea but bad marketing. Your statements above dramatically illustrate just this. The foleo did not simply "enlarge" the information on a mobile device like the redfly. It had its own OS, instant on, and wifi and webos-like syncing ability with mobile phones (not just palm devices). The problem with the Foleo is that is was based on the ancient Garnet platform which was a mistake and that Palm stupidly marketed the device as a "smartphone accessory," In that sense, they were way too early in predicting the demise of the laptop and the birth or cloud computing. However they were pretty right about the form factor and syncing ability and vision of the device. A lot of other people think so too with the advent of the netbook and smartbook niches.

    However the problem with netbooks is that they have limited utility due to hardware limitations, price, and platform. Smartbooks on the other hand are ARM based devices like the original foleo:

    Forget Netbooks; Now Mini-Laptops Are Smartbooks - Bits Blog - NYTimes.com

    I think it would be interesting if Palm released a foleo-II type device based on a ARM proc using the webos platform and marketed like a smartbook. Such a device with webos synergy linked with a smartphone or via wifi would be an inrtiguing device for me...especially at the right price point...
    _________________
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    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  8. vreihen's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The fact is that the Palm OS was getting pretty long in the tooth.
    That may be an understatement! My understanding is that the last generation of PalmOS had addressing limitations, which made it essentially unusable as a "cloud terminal" platform. This was the supposedly the reason why they didn't have the same internal storage space available as competing phones at the time.

    For years, Palm had been promising a Linux-based Treo. As a stop-gap, they went with Windows Mobile as a second OS alternative til they could get their own OS ready for prime time. Enter WebOS and the Pre.

    The scary thing is Palm's development cycle time. It should not have taken 2+ years to get this thing out the door...at least software-wise! Why were they advertising to hire a Linux VPN coder in May, to help port open-source software to the Pre? Assuming that the open-source code exists, this task shouldn't take more than a few weeks for anyone familiar with Linux. Why a full-time programmer for a simple project that could be easily outsourced? It sort of sees like Palm has no idea about how Linux works, and looking at their SDK docs backs up my impression.

    If I were a betting man, I'd wager that Palm was bluffing for the sake of shareholders when they said that they were doing a Linux port to the Treo. Then, a third party came along with a pre-built phone platform (hence the Pre name), and offered it to Palm as a blank slate with a Linux OS and no UI. Palm slapped together Mojo, stuck their label on the phone hardware, and the Pre was born. I'll even go out on a limb and guess that Novatel Wireless was the vendor behind the Pre's hardware. Novatel makes a lot of 3G stuff for Sprint already, and this would certainly explain who the "Nova" behind the SDK's "novaterm" and "novacom" is.

    In any case, I (and a whole lot of other people) have been waiting for at least 3 years to see a Linux-based Palm phone, and thankfully they have finally delivered on their promise. Sure, it's missing some key features out of the gate, but their choice of underlying architecture will speed up the development cycle significantly. The only mistake that Palm has made so far is keeping the SDK closed for as long as they did, because the open-source community could fix many of WebOS's shortcomings in weeks instead of waiting for Palm's limited in-house programming resources to code things.....
    Last edited by vreihen; 07/20/2009 at 08:48 AM.
  9. #9  
    I will say this. I have NEVER been interested in a Palm phone until this one. The Palm OS was a dinosaur, even from initial release. The form factor of the phones sucked, they just didn't appeal to me. Blackberry's and iPhones appealed to me, the Palm OS phones did not. webOS is the first Palm product that has appealed to me, and I decided it was worth it to be an early adopter and stick with Sprint. I was about to switch, but the Pre was basically my retention plan, Sprint hooked me.
  10. #10  
    The OS in the Pre (Linux) is OLDER than the PalmOS.

    So switching the OS has nothing to do with PalmOS being old.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by clipcarl View Post
    The OS in the Pre (Linux) is OLDER than the PalmOS.

    So switching the OS has nothing to do with PalmOS being old.
    You're still going on about that? By that rational, OSX is old, as is Android. Pull your head out your arse.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    That may be an understatement! My understanding is that the last generation of PalmOS had addressing limitations, which made it essentially unusable as a "cloud terminal" platform. This was the supposedly the reason why they didn't have the same internal storage space available as competing phones at the time.

    For years, Palm had been promising a Linux-based Treo. As a stop-gap, they went with Windows Mobile as a second OS alternative til they could get their own OS ready for prime time. Enter WebOS and the Pre.

    The scary thing is Palm's development cycle time. It should not have taken 2+ years to get this thing out the door...at least software-wise! Why were they advertising to hire a Linux VPN coder in May, to help port open-source software to the Pre? Assuming that the open-source code exists, this task shouldn't take more than a few weeks for anyone familiar with Linux. Why a full-time programmer for a simple project that could be easily outsourced? It sort of sees like Palm has no idea about how Linux works, and looking at their SDK docs backs up my impression.

    If I were a betting man, I'd wager that Palm was bluffing for the sake of shareholders when they said that they were doing a Linux port to the Treo. Then, a third party came along with a pre-built phone platform (hence the Pre name), and offered it to Palm as a blank slate with a Linux OS and no UI. Palm slapped together Mojo, stuck their label on the phone hardware, and the Pre was born. I'll even go out on a limb and guess that Novatel Wireless was the vendor behind the Pre's hardware. Novatel makes a lot of 3G stuff for Sprint already, and this would certainly explain who the "Nova" behind the SDK's "novaterm" and "novacom" is.

    In any case, I (and a whole lot of other people) have been waiting for at least 3 years to see a Linux-based Palm phone, and thankfully they have finally delivered on their promise. Sure, it's missing some key features out of the gate, but their choice of underlying architecture will speed up the development cycle significantly. The only mistake that Palm has made so far is keeping the SDK closed for as long as they did, because the open-source community could fix many of WebOS's shortcomings in weeks instead of waiting for Palm's limited in-house programming resources to code things.....
    There are an AWFUL lot of assumptions here.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    You're still going on about that? By that rational, OSX is old, as is Android. Pull your head out your arse.
    Well, he does make a good point. PalmOS could have been updated all along, but they quit making the significant (read: costly) changes necessary to keep it up to snuff. It was business decisions that killed PalmOS, not technology.

    However, I think the path they're on currently is much more sustainable in the long term, as the Linux underpinnings are excellent and constantly being refreshed by the open-source community, and the WebOS GUI is perfectly modern, quite possibly the best out there. Because they allow Linux to take care of the basics, they can focus on the good stuff, while continuing to mine the open-source community for new ideas (and hopefully contributing their own good ideas back).

    It seems that Palm's near death experience and subsequent revitalization with ex-Apple folks starting with Rubinstein at the top will turn out to be a good thing.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    ...PalmOS could have been updated all along, but they quit making the significant (read: costly) changes necessary to keep it up to snuff. It was business decisions that killed PalmOS, not technology.
    Would some one address the issue that if Palm needed or wanted quick easy cash for the company, they would have slapped Big Screens on their existing Treo's!

    I and every Paln owner I knew and talked to would have Dug-deep for a big screen Treo a year ago or more! In fact after the iphone came out I actually set aside $300 thinking: any minute now Palm will retaliate, and that puppy is mine!

    But we all watched waiting, and nothing from Palm, and then they just let Iphone kick them in the teeth while Palm just laid there.

    So after missing easy cash, by not going big with a quick big screen Treo; and now, this Foleo type move bringing out the "Pre"?

    Turning down cash, then "Pre."
    All before "Pre" is Ready.
    Palm seems to want to commit suicide!
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by positron View Post
    ...
    I and every Paln owner I knew and talked to would have Dug-deep for a big screen Treo a year ago or more! In fact after the iphone came out I actually set aside $300 thinking: any minute now Palm will retaliate, and that puppy is mine!
    ...
    I think Palm did what they did specificaly to torque you off. Seems to have worked.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    You're still going on about that? By that rational, OSX is old, as is Android. Pull your head out your arse.
    You're saying the same thing I said (except you're saying it with rude, childish and immature commentary). My point was that Palm didn't ditch PalmOS for Linux because PalmOS was old. They ditched PalmOS because Linux is better (and because it doesn't cost them any licensing fees to use it).

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