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  1. #121  
    The games I play the most on my 700p are Open Chess and Warfare, Inc. Occassionally I also play Dungeon Master and Sundog using CaSTaway, the Atari ST emulator. (Still waiting to hear if CaSTaway runs under Classic, but I doubt it.)

    Games are great when you're stuck in an airport or anywhere you've got time to kill. I definitely consider my 700p a portable entertainment device, and I expect the Pre to be an UPgrade in that department. If it can't run Open Chess under WebOS, I sure hope it works under Classic.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by PoundSand View Post
    actually they have. for example. you can't get a listing of all contacts from your application, so 3rd party contact managers are out.
    I hope you read this in the context in which it was written.

    First, this is not a limitation that Palm has "imposed", it's just the way their software works.
    Secondly, your statement isn't entirely correct. Palm didn't include an application that makes it easily done, but the ability is there, if a person knows how to use it.
    All of the contact information is stored in a database that is avaialble. Programmers can access that. Palm has done nothing to lock them out from it, they've just not yet provided the tools to make it easy.

    I'd be willing to bet that within a year (likely sooner) that 3rd party contact managers will be available. Care to take me up on it?
  3. Adjei's Avatar
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    #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Sorry, that's not what the slide says. It says "Applications available", and "Palm", not "Applications available in App store" and "Palm Pre"

    The slide was meant to say something, and it did. Anyone tough, that tries to say Apple wasn't "lambasting Palm" is delusional or lying, or both.
    Dude don't make me laugh. It was apparent that they were talking about apps avaialble in the app stores, which is why Windows Mobile wasn't there because their app store is not yet opened.

    Apple doesn't give a damn about the Palm Pre. Thr only time they have even mentions the Pre is when they released a statement after fixing Palm hackig iTunes. Meanwhile the likes of McNamee and Rubinstein can't keep iPhone out of ther mouths. No wonder why people on this site talk about the Iphone more than Pre and they yet people call Apple users fanboys, lol.
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    #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoTitans View Post
    i rarely play games and even when I do only for about 10 minutes before I just don't care anymore. Give me a smart phone that helps me manage my life better and works seamlessly and has all the obvious functions...that is something I'll get excited about.
    Wow, I read through every post in this thread and every other post was screw games, I'd rather have this... or why can't there be games, I don't need business features... Everything is about what "I" want. LOL

    Everybody wants what appeals to them, the device that appeals to everyone and can do everything is the device that will be the most successful. The other phone is so popular because of this. You can say f' games, go buy a DS, but I'm sure its not very appealing to carry around more than you have to. Why carry 2+ bulky devices around when you only need to carry around 1? I'm sure with enough time, everybody will get mostly what they want. Palm isn't marketing this device to just professionals nor is it marketing it to media or gamer types. They're marketing it to almost everyone. Not only that, but I remember at launch, the training materials told associates to push the Treo Pro to a certain type of user so they would not be disappointed with the Pre. I don't need to explain how unhappy some people were about the horrible EAS implementation.

    Just some observations.
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Dude don't make me laugh. It was apparent that they were talking about apps avaialble in the app stores, which is why Windows Mobile wasn't there because their app store is not yet opened.
    I agree completely, that was what was apparent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Apple doesn't give a damn about the Palm Pre. Thr only time they have even mentions the Pre is when they released a statement after fixing Palm hackig iTunes. Meanwhile the likes of McNamee and Rubinstein can't keep iPhone out of ther mouths. No wonder why people on this site talk about the Iphone more than Pre and they yet people call Apple users fanboys, lol.
    Well, that one I don't agree with. First of all, if they didn't "give a damn" about the Palm Pre, why did they put them in their announcement (see slide again). And, they mentioned them specifically (some silly comment about "I can't see them" as I recall), finally, your "the only time they have even mentions (sic) the Pre" is proven wrong by the very slide we're talking about.

    Yes, their intent was clear. As I said, they were lambasting the Pre. I suspect they view it as the first truely competitive device. You and I neither one really knows for sure though, time will tell.
  6. Adjei's Avatar
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    #126  
    They were comparing differnt platforms with app stores and thr number of apps, since the Pre has an app store hence the inclusion.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by as147 View Post
    I think most would agree that there is a difference between "limited" and "limited reesources". No one believes Palm would do something to the detriment of their service purposefully. It just comes down to priorities and resources.
    this is not a resource issue, and what's a 'detriment' is obviously going to differ based on your perspective. there are ways to get *a* contact, by pushing a contact scene, which then returns one specific resource for example, and you can get contacts that *your* application has created. limiting what you can get actually takes *more* resources from palm. this specific decision was based on security and privacy concerns that they apparently didn't know exactly how they wanted to handle.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I hope you read this in the context in which it was written.

    First, this is not a limitation that Palm has "imposed", it's just the way their software works.
    Secondly, your statement isn't entirely correct. Palm didn't include an application that makes it easily done, but the ability is there, if a person knows how to use it.
    All of the contact information is stored in a database that is avaialble. Programmers can access that. Palm has done nothing to lock them out from it, they've just not yet provided the tools to make it easy.
    i'm reading it in context, and i think you are incorrect. :P palm *has* specifically "imposed" this limitation- i'm not sure how you can say it's anything else- you can make calls for contacts, but the os only returns the contacts created by your app. nothing else. not that they haven't provided the tools for this, but the tools provided have to specifically not return contacts made by other apps. big difference.

    as far as programmers can access the db, i suppose that's technically true if you're writing something that runs directly on the linux layer of the os- it is not technically true (at this point) for programmers with the general purpose sdk; there is obviously other development kits available to palm (and probably partners) that can do more. that does most of us no good, as we ARE locked out of some features.

    I'd be willing to bet that within a year (likely sooner) that 3rd party contact managers will be available. Care to take me up on it?
    no- i fully expect there to be a official way to access this data within a year- that doesn't mean that palm hasn't limited anything (the point i was addressing).
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by PoundSand View Post
    ...
    no- i fully expect there to be a official way to access this data within a year- that doesn't mean that palm hasn't limited anything (the point i was addressing).
    How can you access something if Palm has not allowed the access?
    I will grant you, they didn't include it in the WebOS SDK. But, to say they're limiting access is not the case. The access is there, for those that know how to get to it.

    And, you seem to even be acknowledging the net result, those apps will be available. I suspect though, that the availability will come long before Palm provides an "official" way to do it.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    How can you access something if Palm has not allowed the access?
    the same way that people can get fairplay drm music from the itunes store to play on other devices- they find workarounds. you wouldn't argue that apple "allows" that, would you?

    I will grant you, they didn't include it in the WebOS SDK. But, to say they're limiting access is not the case.
    you're not getting it - have you tried to use the contacts api? - it's not that they "didn't include it in the webos sdk"; they're currently specifically *blocking* it in the webos sdk.

    And, you seem to even be acknowledging the net result, those apps will be available. I suspect though, that the availability will come long before Palm provides an "official" way to do it.
    there may be a couple apps available that do so, but they won't be widely used. and i suspect it won't be that long before it's officially available- they've already hinted that they're working on it.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by PoundSand View Post
    ...
    you're not getting it - have you tried to use the contacts api? - it's not that they "didn't include it in the webos sdk"; they're currently specifically *blocking* it in the webos sdk.
    ...
    No, not a programmer. However, I have copied the SQL Lite database to my system, and accessed it with a couple of different database apps. I suspect it could be done a number of different ways, but my point remains. The database is there. It's in an easily recogonizable format, and it's available to be read from, and written to.
    Quote Originally Posted by PoundSand View Post
    ...
    there may be a couple apps available that do so, but they won't be widely used. and i suspect it won't be that long before it's officially available- they've already hinted that they're working on it.
    This response is confusing on different fronts. If there are apps that become available but aren't "widely used", then why would anyone think it would be a big demand type app? I disagree, I think they WILL be widely used, if they are done correctly.
    And, if the APIs are going to be offically avaialable before long, what's the complaint.

    It seems like there's a loop here, Palm blocked it, even though it's there, and no one wants it, but it will eventually be available ... You've confused me, that's for sure.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    No, not a programmer. However, I have copied the SQL Lite database to my system, and accessed it with a couple of different database apps. I suspect it could be done a number of different ways, but my point remains. The database is there. It's in an easily recogonizable format, and it's available to be read from, and written to.
    yes, you can copy the db from a rooted pre, accessing linux directly, and access it, but it's BLOCKED from webos proper. i don't believe you can get a directly listing.

    [quoteThis response is confusing on different fronts. If there are apps that become available but aren't "widely used", then why would anyone think it would be a big demand type app? I disagree, I think they WILL be widely used, if they are done correctly.[/quote]

    if it's not available from the app store (which i assume something that doesn't use a supported api won't be), it won't be widely used. simple as that.

    And, if the APIs are going to be offically avaialable before long, what's the complaint.
    i'm not complaining- i'm just pointing out that palm is, in fact, limiting what's accessible, contrary to what some have posted on this thread.

    It seems like there's a loop here, Palm blocked it, even though it's there, and no one wants it, but it will eventually be available ... You've confused me, that's for sure.
    - palm blocked it.
    - it won't be widely used, even if high demand, if it doesn't use the official api methods, as it won't be accepted into the app store.
    - they're working on the api.

    got it now?
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    #132  
    Guys I have no right to tell you what to do but if you will kindly indulge me. This seems to have gone into a battle over symantics and I just can't wait till it hits rock bottom by getting into legal statments and law!!!!

    The general premise of this thread is that some think the SDK is weak and others don't

    I am not sure where this thread is getting anyone but it makes for some form of reading (though I am sure you can think of more productive threads to be involved in).

    How about this. Lets call it a matter for "proof is in the pudding"

    Wait a while (timeframe to be determined) and then see how widely used the SDK is (say two months?)

    Then perhaps we can reconvene the discussion to see where we have got to, i.e. ton of apps or nothing much ......

    Once again forgive me for butting in but this thread had some good stuff in when it started (which is why I am subscribed) and hoped it would remain interesting to the uninitiated PRE user such as I.

    Think yourselves lucky if you have one as I am still waiting for a GSM version. :-(
    The Palm Pre advert that should have been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAHsz8BxDk

    Madam - I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception. Groucho Marx
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowGod View Post
    This guy is bitter because he was "pushed away by Palm", of course he's going to badmouth them. Read the article, it's about gaming on the Pre. webOS was never intended for graphic intensive gaming, even though the Pre hardware can support it. This isn't a surprise.

    And Gizmodo is and always has been pro-iPhone, they post all the negative Pre stuff they can get.
    This is an absolute FAIL on Palms part..

    "Read the article, it's about gaming on the Pre. webOS was never intended for graphic intensive gaming, even though the Pre hardware can support it. This isn't a surprise."

    Why in the hell would you release a phone, compare it to an iPhone and absolutely neuter the idea of games?!! Defend it how you want, but that a great way to steer casual phone users that are gamer straight to an iPhone.

    I have a feeling this whole Card/Multitasking is going to be the culprit.

    WAKE UP AND MAKE SOME NOISE PALM!
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    #134  
    Maven, time will tell who is going to be successful and truth be told I am tiring of this narrow opinion that all retail users are all the same and the God phone is the iPhone

    It a nice device but get over it dude. Proof that all users are not the same can be seen with Nokia.

    Nokia sells more phones than Apple, Palm and Windows Mobile and MOST OTHER MANUFACTURERS COMBINED.

    Palm will also compete in the PDA space and will do very nicely thankyou.

    Thankyou and goodnight.
    The Palm Pre advert that should have been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAHsz8BxDk

    Madam - I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception. Groucho Marx
  15. #135  
    I admit I haven't read through the whole thread (mea culpa, mea culpa), but for those of you saying you can't get a Contact through WebOS proper, you're incorrect. Is it as simple as implementing an x-mojo button? No. But it's not the end of the world to do. I haven't had a chance to jump onto the developer Portal since Mojo SDK has been put public, but I'm pretty sure there were a few threads in the Early Access program about this. I heard a rumor Palm wasn't going to have those forums part of the open program as we all used our real names, but if it's there, you should be able to find the information relatively easily.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by maven1975 View Post
    This is an absolute FAIL on Palms part..

    "Read the article, it's about gaming on the Pre. webOS was never intended for graphic intensive gaming, even though the Pre hardware can support it. This isn't a surprise."

    Why in the hell would you release a phone, compare it to an iPhone and absolutely neuter the idea of games?!! Defend it how you want, but that a great way to steer casual phone users that are gamer straight to an iPhone.

    I have a feeling this whole Card/Multitasking is going to be the culprit.

    WAKE UP AND MAKE SOME NOISE PALM!
    Because "graphic intensive gaming" isn't what draws most people to the IPhone.

    And I think you will see some graphic intensive gaming on the Pre within a year. I think it becomes more of a battery issue than anything. If Palm implemented the ability to completely suspend all cards (write state to memory, end all processes, play your game, on game exit, re-execute cards, reload memory) they just might be able to get away with it. It would possibly require a re-write of a lot of applications to get away with that, though.
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    #137  
    You want to play 3D games that are worth a stuff then buy PSP or something else.

    At the end of the day the iPhone aint that great a game playing device and EVERYONE I know hardly ever plays the games or if they do they get bored after a while. Most of them get back to using it to make their busy days easier.

    Its a productivity tool not a gameboy.
    The Palm Pre advert that should have been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAHsz8BxDk

    Madam - I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception. Groucho Marx
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by as147 View Post
    You want to play 3D games that are worth a stuff then buy PSP or something else.

    At the end of the day the iPhone aint that great a game playing device and EVERYONE I know hardly ever plays the games or if they do they get bored after a while. Most of them get back to using it to make their busy days easier.

    Its a productivity tool not a gameboy.
    I travel a lot. I think gaming on the iPhone is fantastic. Recently I have purchased Doom and Rolando 2. Fantastic games that to me are better than most on the DS.

    Also, I am a amateur pilot. I have X-Plane on my iPhone which is just an incredible flight simulator. There are times Im just not going to be able to carry around a PSP with me. Having the option of 1 device for everything is the reason I own an iPhone. Ofcourse most people here that complain the Pre isn't a gaming device would be very happy if Palm changed its mind on their SDK.
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    #139  
    Along the lines of my comments regarding 2D/3D above, let me try to steer the conversation in a useful direction by noting the issue is not just about games. Games happen to be a high-visibility technology showcase of what an SDK can do, but they are really a reflection of the power and capability of the SDK in general. The absence of OpenGL and good accelerometer access in the Mojo SDK affects all kinds of app concepts just like it affects games.

    Going back to games specifically, I think anyone who underestimates the power and capability of the iPhone 3GS is kidding themselves. It has raised the bar even against dedicated gaming devices. Just look at all the big game companies investing in the iPhone. They don't jump into the market like that unless they see big potential. If you abstract this "game" aspect back to general apps, which can now do even more powerful and computationally intensive tasks, you get the general idea of what it means. We're moving in the direction where a powerful smart phone becomes the key device in someone's life.

    The Pre has similar computational horsepower to the 3GS and could easily go down this path. Right now Palm is not utilizing a big portion of that (the graphics chip) and they are underutilizing the computational capability. Palm may have a plan, and it may revolve around web-based apps, and it has many merits of its own. But while they hop on this boat, the real opportunities are moving in another direction. I am sort of getting the feeling the webOS is a 2008/2009-era technology platform that is not really looking too far ahead.

    It's fine if people say they don't care about games, or they don't care about advanced apps, etc. That means the Pre/webOS combination fits your needs well right now. But we should really care about how the platform scales moving into the future, as it heavily influences the long term viability of webOS.
  20. #140  
    This is no surprise. Craig is a iphone fan-boy. Apple did the same thing with their first iphone. Apple didn't open up native app dev for at least another year after release of 1.0.
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