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  1. #181  
    I use it with iTunes too.
  2. #182  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You're right, I'm not using the SDK. I suppose I could offer to send you a homebrew app that would show that Palm is not blocking the ability, but that's not worth the trouble.
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    As I said, it's not worth the trouble to me. I'd have to brush off way too many long dormant db skills. Most of my (limited) db skills were deliberately forgotten. What a tangled mess database programming is. However, if you want one bad enough that you're willing to pay for it, that might be a different story.
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by storino03 View Post
    It's funny how one person claims to be able to pull up contacts using a homebrew app, but when the other person wants to see it, he says he can't, and only with a "donation". yeah...
    Actually, either you nned to improve your reading skills, or improve your honesty level. No such claim was made.

    so what were you offering up exactly? and how much would it cost?
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    #183  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Didn't they do that and apple shot it down ?

    Does apple has patent on ID3 tags ?
    They didn't even attempt to, this is the way the likes of RIM sync with iTunes.
  4. gbp
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    #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    They didn't even attempt to, this is the way the likes of RIM sync with iTunes.
    Speaking of which , syncing with iTunes is not a big deal.
    There are alternatives available.
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    #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Speaking of which , syncing with iTunes is not a big deal.
    There are alternatives available.
    It was a big deal for Palm seeing as how they were willing to hack into itunes and promote itunes syncing as a feature.
  6. #186  
    Quote Originally Posted by PoundSand View Post
    so what were you offering up exactly? and how much would it cost?
    So, from this:
    . I suppose I could offer to send you a homebrew app that would show that Palm is not blocking the ability, but that's not worth the trouble.
    and this:
    As I said, it's not worth the trouble to me. I'd have to brush off way too many long dormant db skills. Most of my (limited) db skills were deliberately forgotten. What a tangled mess database programming is. However, if you want one bad enough that you're willing to pay for it, that might be a different story.
    You took that as an offer to do it for money? Seriously?

    I work for the government at an hourly billable rate for a guarantee of 40 hours a week doing network and server support. I work part time for two companies (one of which I used to work full time for) at double the hourly rate, but no guarantee of hours.

    This is for work that I'm comfortable with, and enjoy. As I said, I'd have to brush off some very old db skills that were gladly put aside; so I'd want to charge the higher rate, and I'd want to bill you for the hours I spend relearning those skills. If you're seriously asking, send me a PM and I'll put togehter a quote.

    If you want to stop being ridiculous, I'll answer the first part of the question. What I was "offering up" was discussion about the database capabilities of the Pre.

    You don't seem to accept the notion that someone might have a differing opinion. I can. If you want to pay up for me to prove my point, I'll be happy to accept and make it conditional that I be able to provide the app (it would simply be a "proof of concept" thing though); however, as I said previously, that would seem silly, since we both seem to have agreed that such an app is going to come eventually from some source.

    Feel free to carry on the rest of this via PM.
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    So, from this:

    and this:

    You took that as an offer to do it for money? Seriously?

    I work for the government at an hourly billable rate for a guarantee of 40 hours a week doing network and server support. I work part time for two companies (one of which I used to work full time for) at double the hourly rate, but no guarantee of hours.

    This is for work that I'm comfortable with, and enjoy. As I said, I'd have to brush off some very old db skills that were gladly put aside; so I'd want to charge the higher rate, and I'd want to bill you for the hours I spend relearning those skills. If you're seriously asking, send me a PM and I'll put togehter a quote.

    If you want to stop being ridiculous, I'll answer the first part of the question. What I was "offering up" was discussion about the database capabilities of the Pre.

    You don't seem to accept the notion that someone might have a differing opinion. I can. If you want to pay up for me to prove my point, I'll be happy to accept and make it conditional that I be able to provide the app (it would simply be a "proof of concept" thing though); however, as I said previously, that would seem silly, since we both seem to have agreed that such an app is going to come eventually from some source.

    Feel free to carry on the rest of this via PM.
    All of which means: "I was just running my mouth and cannot back up anything I said."
  8. gbp
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    #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    It was a big deal for Palm seeing as how they were willing to hack into itunes and promote itunes syncing as a feature.
    Okay it was for PALM , but not for majority of the Pre owners.
    Life goes on, Pre is still being sold , folks are still buying.
    Folks are still syncing.
    Personally , I prefer the iTunes , since I organized my music for the last four years using it.

    It was a non issue to begin with , the media created this "issue" , folks sucked in.

    Both companies did what they have to do.
  9. #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by chodaboy View Post
    All of which means: "I was just running my mouth and cannot back up anything I said."
    Sigh...
    Mojo Storage Database - WebOS Internals

    Did you take the "How old are you" poll?
  10. #190  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    So, from this:
    and this:

    You took that as an offer to do it for money? Seriously?
    seriously, i took it as someone flapping their trap when they don't know how to do what they claim could be done.

    If you want to stop being ridiculous, I'll answer the first part of the question. What I was "offering up" was discussion about the database capabilities of the Pre.

    You don't seem to accept the notion that someone might have a differing opinion.
    thing is, what palm is *blocking* (versus not offering up) via the sdk is not a matter of "opinion." they make some thing available, other things are not blocked but are not available via the sdk, and still other things are *blocked* in the sdk.
  11. #191  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Sigh...
    Mojo Storage Database - WebOS Internals

    Did you take the "How old are you" poll?
    Storage – webOSdev – Palm

    "Databases are associated with applications one application's database is not visible to other applications."
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowGod View Post
    This guy is bitter because he was "pushed away by Palm", of course he's going to badmouth them. Read the article, it's about gaming on the Pre. webOS was never intended for graphic intensive gaming, even though the Pre hardware can support it. This isn't a surprise.

    And Gizmodo is and always has been pro-iPhone, they post all the negative Pre stuff they can get.
    Exactly why I rarely read Gizmodo and gravitate towards Engadget. With their blatant iPhone fanboyism, how can one really trust any review or article published by Giz.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    There are always two sides. I am also an iPhone developer who LOVES development on the Pre, and their SDK is wonderful for prototyping and developing apps quickly and easily. With the excpetion of games, the Pre SDK can do everything the iPhone's can, and more. The ability to run in the background is HUGE for any app if they choose to use it intelligently, something the iPhone could never do.

    The only genre of app you wont be seeing on the Pre too much is 3D games. And to me, that is fine, considering most of the fun games i enjoyed on my iPhone were 2D anyway.

    So yeah, the Pre SDK is a double-edged sword. What it does, it does amazingly well. Has many features the iPhone SDK should have, and allows developers to create their ideas fast, which is a very good component to have. You will see many more USEFUL apps for the Pre, and less fluff. If you plan on using your Pre as a handheld gaming device, return it. If you plan on using it to enhance your life through productivity apps, you'll LOVE it.
    Nice post, thanks for giving us a developer's side.
  13. #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by PoundSand View Post
    Storage €“ webOSdev €“ Palm

    "Databases are associated with applications — one application's database is not visible to other applications."
    As you stated, that is from Palm's website, and concerns the SDK for WebOS. The (current) SDK obviously does not allow that access.

    However, I am telling you that there is one database that contains all of the contact information (including the contact information that is in the other various cloud contacts). I have copied that database to my personal computer, and issued SQL queires that dropped data, and added it. Similar queries can be issued via PHP (I've done that before on other platforms). Seeing as how AMP has been successfully installed on the Pre, that leaves virtually no doubt in my mind that the data in that database can be manipulated outside of the SDK.

    You are free to think what you want about what I do, or do not know. However, what can be done is pretty obvious, and even you yourself have stated that you believe that this will be done outside the SDK.

    I would ask "how that can be if Palm prevents it", but won't, since you and others here have chosen to make it into personal attacks instead of discussion.

    Feel free to discuss this, and you've been invited to take it to PM if you choose, but if you want to simply sling mud, I'll pass.
    Last edited by hparsons; 07/21/2009 at 11:21 AM.
  14. #194  
    Quote Originally Posted by PoundSand View Post
    ...
    and still other things are *blocked* in the sdk.
    EXACTLY. And if someone goes outside of the SDK, it is no longer blocked. However, if Palm had chosen to, they could have blocked even that, and they did not.

    The point I have been trying to make here all along.

    If you choose to use only the SDK, you are correct, you cannot do what you are talking about. (No road to the barn analogy)

    If you choose to work outside the SDK, the database is not "blocked". It's not encrypted (though the tools to do so exist), nor is it hidden from access to a rooted user, or a service.
  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Originally Posted by PoundSand
    ...
    and still other things are *blocked* in the sdk.
    EXACTLY. And if someone goes outside of the SDK, it is no longer blocked. However, if Palm had chosen to, they could have blocked even that, and they did not.

    The point I have been trying to make here all along.
    wow dude, that is either serious backtracking, or poor reading- i've made the point *multiple* times that palm was blocking what you can do from the sdk, while you claimed 'Not providing access via SDK is not the same thing as "blocking" it.' NOW you're saying yes, it's blocked in the sdk.

    If you choose to use only the SDK, you are correct, you cannot do what you are talking about. (No road to the barn analogy)

    If you choose to work outside the SDK, the database is not "blocked". It's not encrypted (though the tools to do so exist), nor is it hidden from access to a rooted user, or a service.
    i've also made the point that you can work around it; this boils down to your apparent position that if you can program around it, it's not blocked. that is, to be frank, asinine, as with that viewpoint, you would (or at least *should*, logically) claim that *nothing* is (ever) blocked. EVERYONE knows there's a way to do it outside the sdk- afterall, palm themselves are doing it. that still doesn't mean palm isn't blocking anything.

    your road analogy, at this point would be, even if there's a gate, if you can climb over it, it's not blocked.


    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    However, I am telling you that there is one database that contains all of the contact information (including the contact information that is in the other various cloud contacts).
    this was never contested, so i'm not sure why you feel the need to tell me this, eh? :P


    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You are free to think what you want about what I do, or do not know. However, what can be done is pretty obvious, and even you yourself have stated that you believe that this will be done outside the SDK.

    I would ask "how that can be if Palm prevents it", but won't, since you and others here have chosen to make it into personal attacks instead of discussion.
    i would answer with the itunes analogy again- it's obvious that apple limited (i.e. blocked / prevented / whatever word you want to use) what devices you could play drm music (fairplay) on, right? but yet people managed to play it on whatever devices they want. how could that be if apple blocked it? people hacked the ***** out of it is how.

    it all boils down to the simple fact that (in the general case) if you can program a way to block something, you can program a way to unblock that same thing. that doesn't change the fact that someone tried to block it.
  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by PoundSand View Post
    wow dude, that is either serious backtracking, or poor reading- i've made the point *multiple* times that palm was blocking what you can do from the sdk, while you claimed 'Not providing access via SDK is not the same thing as "blocking" it.' NOW you're saying yes, it's blocked in the sdk.
    Yes, poor reading on your part, no backtracking on mine. These are my first two posts on this topic. Both specifically talked about working outside the SDK (I've taken the liberty of highlighting the pertinant parts, since it would appear you missed them the first time around)
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Sorry, that's not true. It would have been true had you left out the "potential developers" part. The fact is that Palm has said for quite some time that the initial SDK would be what it is. They've also said they will cooperate with select developers for deeper access. The article is just another grasp at trying to convince folks how bad the Pre is.
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    This is more of your anti-Palm spin. Palm has not "limited" anything. No more than Apple "limited" anyone when they didn't initially release an SDK.

    The initial SDK is a WebOS SDK. As such, it wouldn't have the low-level API's needed for the type of programming we're talking about.
    What you're really complaining about is that Palm hasn't produced a Pre SDK (instead of a WebOS SDK) for the device that's been out for 6 weeks.
    Quote Originally Posted by PoundSand View Post
    ...
    i've also made the point that you can work around it; this boils down to your apparent position that if you can program around it, it's not blocked. that is, to be frank, asinine, as with that viewpoint, you would (or at least *should*, logically) claim that *nothing* is (ever) blocked. EVERYONE knows there's a way to do it outside the sdk- afterall, palm themselves are doing it. that still doesn't mean palm isn't blocking anything.
    And I've acknowledge that you ad I agree on that a couple of times. I suspect in your excitement to "prove me wrong", you missed that as well. Howevr, they (Palm) did not put up any roadblock, except within the SDK, and I have been talking about working outside the SDK (meaning the WebOS SDK) since my first post on his topic. The SDK is the road in my analogy. The roads make things easier to get to, but you can't get to everything using them. There is no "gate" around the database in question, and I've stated that specifically for the third time now, as well as the fact that the tools are available to block it, if Palm chose to.

    The rest is pointless.
    Last edited by hparsons; 07/21/2009 at 11:09 PM.
  17. #197  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Yes, poor reading on your part, no backtracking on mine. These are my first two posts on this topic. Both specifically talked about working outside the SDK (I've taken the liberty of highlighting the pertinant parts, since it would appear you missed them the first time around)
    ...
    And I've acknowledge that you ad I agree on that a couple of times. I suspect in your excitement to "prove me wrong", you missed that as well. Howevr, they (Palm) did not put up any roadblock, except within the SDK, ...
    no dude, go back and read what you quoted from yourself- you say that palm isn't limiting "anything."
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by PoundSand View Post
    no dude, go back and read what you quoted from yourself- you say that palm isn't limiting "anything."
    I'm sorry I failed to repeat my first post on every subsequent post. I'll try to do better next time if it would make you happy. The facts are exactly as I stated though, my initial post, and even the next post, was within the context of working outside the SDK. It's right there to look at, but I suspect you won't bother.
  19. #199  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'm sorry I failed to repeat my first post on every subsequent post. I'll try to do better next time if it would make you happy. The facts are exactly as I stated though, my initial post, and even the next post, was within the context of working outside the SDK. It's right there to look at, but I suspect you won't bother.

    your first post isn't any better- in it you claimed " it's not true" to a broad statement "All biases aside, they are giving out facts. Facts about the limitations that Palm have imposed on all current or potential developers. And this not only affects gaming." you followed up with "it is what it is," which is, of course true. but palm *IS* still limiting what can be done. :P
  20. #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by PoundSand View Post
    your first post isn't any better- in it you claimed " it's not true" to a broad statement "All biases aside, they are giving out facts. Facts about the limitations that Palm have imposed on all current or potential developers. And this not only affects gaming." you followed up with "it is what it is," which is, of course true. but palm *IS* still limiting what can be done. :P
    Of course, if you take out a small portion of what I said, you can turn it into anything you wish.

    My post where I said 'that's not true", specifically said 'It would have been true had you left out the "potential developers"', as a matter of fact, it was the next sentence. That was in direct response (I quoted him) to Dtom2444's statment that about limitations that Palm has imposed on "all current or potential developers". Again, it's not all developers. That's what I clearly said in the post. The rest of the post (from me) talked about the fact that Palm as said that they would provide deeper access to selected developers.

    I'm really sorry if you interpreted this to mean that I was talking about within the framework of the SDK. I don't know how you interpreted it that way, when I talked several times about working outside of the SDK, and was pretty specific.

    Feel free to respond however you wish, I'm really done with the conversation. However, taking what I've said out of context, and ignoring what I really said doesn't change my meaning, and doesn't prove you're somehow right. All it does is show that you've not been open to genuine discussion about the topic.
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