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  1. srfcrzy's Avatar
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       #1  
    So, I was one of the lucky ten chosen to blog for the month on a CNET "sponsored blog" about my Pre user experience.

    I just posted about the recent iTunes "upgrade" and thought I would share (and also get some Pre people back-up in case I get mauled by Apple fanbois for it :-): SLAM! And Stay Out! Why Apple Shutting the Door on Pre Users = Marketing Fail | Test Drive the Palm Pre from Spr - CNET Reviews
    Last edited by srfcrzy; 07/16/2009 at 08:27 AM. Reason: added reason for posting link
  2. reidme's Avatar
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    #2  
    Well thought out and nicely written.
  3. eddieck's Avatar
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    #3  
    Don't worry. Everything Apple has done with the iPhone and iTunes has been hacked within a few days. I've no doubt the same will happen here - probably not an official fix from Palm, but most likely a fix from the homebrew community.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by eddieck View Post
    Don't worry. Everything Apple has done with the iPhone and iTunes has been hacked within a few days. I've no doubt the same will happen here - probably not an official fix from Palm, but most likely a fix from the homebrew community.
    I'm sure there will be an official fix. I've got a feeling Palm will chase it just for the hell of it.
  5. eddieck's Avatar
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    #5  
    Oh, I'm sure there will be eventually - but understand they're not just going to release something quickly. They have to QA it too. At best you'll see something if the 7/22 webOS update rumor is true.
  6. #6  
    Personally I've been a linux user for a few years now, and Apple's covetted the windows market, and never effectively included our small desktop market share. We've been consistently dissed.

    It's been a bonus in many ways. Personally I find amazon music, even walmart music (from the desktop) easier to use.

    Additionally, my own CD rips I can manage in simple album folders/directories and utilize any number of tagging tools to define things that show up automagically in the pre.

    A few extra steps, but if you're an audiophile, it's worth it. I wrestled with iTunes when I purchase a nano for my surrogate Mom, and I just never found it to be all that.

    If they can't make it easy to spend my money with them, or they're going to remain exclusive, then they just don't get my buck. Amazon will.

    I don't expect Apple to build me an app for a bleeding edge new device, but cutting off easy access, ostensibly to cultivate envy for the iPhone, is lame.

    Loading music on the Pre is as easy as moving files on a flash drive. Does anyone really need all that gui just to move some music?

    I guess I won't really miss a vendor that never really wanted my business in the first place.
    Last edited by corq; 07/16/2009 at 08:49 AM. Reason: correcting my attrocious spelling
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    I'm sure there will be an official fix. I've got a feeling Palm will chase it just for the hell of it.

    Palm's grand plan was to hack the connection and trick the system to thinking it was a ipod, seems pretty lame. After spending $400 million one would have thought they would have had a better approach. Fact remains that while everyone thinks this is the small vs the big, the user community is stuck without a non hacked option.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by corq View Post
    Personally I've been a linux user for a few years now, and Apple's covetted the windows market, and never effectively included our small desktop market share. We've been consistently dissed.

    It's been a bonus in many ways. Personally I find amazon music, even walmart music (from the desktop) easier to use.

    Additionally, my own CD rips I can manage in simple album folders/directories and utilize any number of tagging tools to define things that show up automagically in the pre.

    A few extra steps, but if you're an audiophile, it's worth it. I wrestled with iTunes when I purchase a nano for my surrogate Mom, and I just never found it to be all that.

    If they can't make it easy to spend my money with them, or they're going to remain exclusive, then they just don't get my buck. Amazon will.

    I don't expect Apple to build me an app for a bleeding edge new device, but cutting off easy access, ostensibly to cultivate envy for the iPhone, is lame.

    Loading music on the Pre is as easy as moving files on a flash drive. Does anyone really need all that gui just to move some music?

    I guess I won't really miss a vendor that never really wanted my business in the first place.
    Does Amarok work with the Pre? I used it back in the day(before the most recent UI change) to sync my then gf's Nano, and it worked great.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by pugnut View Post
    Palm's grand plan was to hack the connection and trick the system to thinking it was a ipod, seems pretty lame. After spending $400 million one would have thought they would have had a better approach. Fact remains that while everyone thinks this is the small vs the big, the user community is stuck without a non hacked option.
    They can always change the hack. If they had invested in actual hardware to trick it, then Apple could block said hardware, and itd be a waste of effort and money. A software hack is a much better implementation than hardware, and much easier to defeat what Apple has done.
  10. #10  
    Good article.

    I can't say I'm surprised at all by Apple's behavior. I fully expected it. Apple has always tried to remain as isolated and closed off from the rest of the electronic world as it possibly can. This is no different.
  11. #11  
    To me, this is like criticizing a homeowner for building a fence to keep trespassers off.

    Imagine if you came up with an easy to use mp3 player and spent thousands developing it. You realize that it's only half the battle and need to provide an easy to use sync app with it. You spend thousands more getting it right.

    It's a huge success. You then make a phone that sets the market on fire. Your software app is very popular.

    Then someone comes along with a killer product that does a few extra things, but they hack it to work with YOUR software which negates a key advantage you have.

    If anyone fails here, it's Palm. They chose this path. Imagine if they spent the time instead developing their own app and partnership with Amazon? As Palm says, this platform has at least 15 years of life in it. Is pretending to be an ipod in Itunes the best way? Doesn't Palm have any interest whatsoever in ever releasing a PDA/media player? How about another webOS product? Palm needs their own app that serves as their webOS foundation app..
  12. #12  
    I didn't expect any less from Apple. Why should they stand by while Palm masquerades itself as an iPod?

    Palm could have simply made a media sync program that reads iTunes' library; this is what RIM does with the BlackBerry. This way, you still use iTunes to maintain your media while the media sync program actually syncs up with the Pre.
  13. leez's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by BlaqkAudio View Post
    I didn't expect any less from Apple. Why should they stand by while Palm masquerades itself as an iPod?

    Palm could have simply made a media sync program that reads iTunes' library; this is what RIM does with the BlackBerry. This way, you still use iTunes to maintain your media while the media sync program actually syncs up with the Pre.
    And what you're suggesting is EXACTLY what you can do with DoubleTwist. Even better, DT knows what can and can't be played on your Pre...it works quite well and is a good solution following the 8.2.1
    Loving the Pre...
    Follow me on Twitter
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by pugnut View Post
    Palm's grand plan was to hack the connection and trick the system to thinking it was a ipod, seems pretty lame. After spending $400 million one would have thought they would have had a better approach. Fact remains that while everyone thinks this is the small vs the big, the user community is stuck without a non hacked option.
    How was it a grand plan? It wasn't hat hard, nor did it take that long to implement.

    Tip: Don't make critical posts like this without offering your own idea of a "better approach".
  15. srfcrzy's Avatar
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       #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    To me, this is like criticizing a homeowner for building a fence to keep trespassers off.
    Point taken, but what if you were selling, say, lemonade from your porch? Would you be that upset if someone put up a sign in another town that directed thirsty people to your front door?

    Or maybe a better metaphor would be...if someone paved a road leading to your back yard. Sure, it might be just a little creepy. But you still get to sell the folks lemonade. ;-)
    Last edited by srfcrzy; 07/16/2009 at 09:35 AM. Reason: added metaphor :-)
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    To me, this is like criticizing a homeowner for building a fence to keep trespassers off.

    Imagine if you came up with an easy to use mp3 player and spent thousands developing it. You realize that it's only half the battle and need to provide an easy to use sync app with it. You spend thousands more getting it right.

    It's a huge success. You then make a phone that sets the market on fire. Your software app is very popular.

    Then someone comes along with a killer product that does a few extra things, but they hack it to work with YOUR software which negates a key advantage you have.

    If anyone fails here, it's Palm. They chose this path. Imagine if they spent the time instead developing their own app and partnership with Amazon? As Palm says, this platform has at least 15 years of life in it. Is pretending to be an ipod in Itunes the best way? Doesn't Palm have any interest whatsoever in ever releasing a PDA/media player? How about another webOS product? Palm needs their own app that serves as their webOS foundation app..
    Its anti-competitive behavior, plain and simple. iTunes now has DRM free music, so you can keep your music, and use it with other players, but oh no, if you decide to use a competitors device, you can no longer use iTunes, screw you. Pretending to be an iPod IS the best way, because of how many people use iTunes already. Apple is spitting in the face of their own customers because of what kind of device they use to listen to the music they buy on iTunes.

    I agree, they need their own app, but Apple is being deliberately anti-competitive here. Other non-iPod devices have been sync'ing with iTunes for years, yet the Pre comes along, and they deliberately pull this crap.
  17. #17  
    Pretending to be an iPod IS the best way, because of how many people use iTunes already.

    That makes no sense. Why bother trying to sell webOS or a Pre when most people use something else?

    Why's Google fooling with developing an OS if most people use something else? Why did they fool with Chrome if most people use something else?

    Palm's opportunity here is to make a better itunes with their own version of how things should be done. Amazon should be foaming at the mouth with the possible prospect of selling video on a mobile OS. Itunes is far from being ideal, IMO.
  18. IMethos's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Pretending to be an iPod IS the best way, because of how many people use iTunes already.

    That makes no sense. Why bother trying to sell webOS or a Pre when most people use something else?

    Why's Google fooling with developing an OS if most people use something else? Why did they fool with Chrome if most people use something else?

    Palm's opportunity here is to make a better itunes with their own version of how things should be done. Amazon should be foaming at the mouth with the possible prospect of selling video on a mobile OS. Itunes is far from being ideal, IMO.
    +1
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Pretending to be an iPod IS the best way, because of how many people use iTunes already.

    That makes no sense. Why bother trying to sell webOS or a Pre when most people use something else?

    Why's Google fooling with developing an OS if most people use something else? Why did they fool with Chrome if most people use something else?

    Palm's opportunity here is to make a better itunes with their own version of how things should be done. Amazon should be foaming at the mouth with the possible prospect of selling video on a mobile OS. Itunes is far from being ideal, IMO.
    Agreed, but for a company that was not doing too well until the Pre(and who knows if they're doing well now), its not a viable option. Hopefully some day we'll see a PreSync or something, but for now, the best option for them is to have it work with some kind of existing software, iTunes being one of the obvious choices.
  20. Tyndall's Avatar
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    #20  
    I am not certain I "get it" in regard to Apple's closing out the Pre (and potentially other future media players) wanting to synch with iTunes.

    I do not know a single person who went out and bought their iTouch, iPod or iPhone just because they love iTunes so much and wanted a device to synch to it. Rather they went out and got one of those devices because it appealled to them and then used iTunes because that was the path of least resistance to getting their music and media onto their chosen iDevice.

    It seems to me that Apple is grouping the two (iTunes + iDevice) together, when really they should not be. one is hardware, and is sold as such. The other is a Service, and is given away free. iTunes could be a doorway for sales of media; it is not an outlet for someone to buy a device.

    So in the end my humble opinion is that Apple is missing the point here, as well as an opportunity. The point is that iTunes is a service and should be incusionary, rather than exclusionary. By allowing Pre (or other media) owners to synch and use iTunes Apple would drum up additional sales (at least of non-drm media) or, at the very least, gain a presence on every User's desktop\laptop\netbook who uses that Service to synch their music, et al.

    On the device side, the majority of Pre owners didn't buy the Pre just because it could synch to iTunes, that is just an added convenience. But these same Pre owners who do use iTunes to synch may be inclined, if they were certain the compatiability was going to last, to purchase products through the iTunes Store. Likewise I do not foresee any Pre owners turning in their devices just because the synch to iTunes is broken.
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