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  1. IMethos's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndall View Post
    I am not certain I "get it" in regard to Apple's closing out the Pre (and potentially other future media players) wanting to synch with iTunes.

    I do not know a single person who went out and bought their iTouch, iPod or iPhone just because they love iTunes so much and wanted a device to synch to it. Rather they went out and got one of those devices because it appealled to them and then used iTunes because that was the path of least resistance to getting their music and media onto their chosen iDevice.

    It seems to me that Apple is grouping the two (iTunes + iDevice) together, when really they should not be. one is hardware, and is sold as such. The other is a Service, and is given away free. iTunes could be a doorway for sales of media; it is not an outlet for someone to buy a device.

    So in the end my humble opinion is that Apple is missing the point here, as well as an opportunity. The point is that iTunes is a service and should be incusionary, rather than exclusionary. By allowing Pre (or other media) owners to synch and use iTunes Apple would drum up additional sales (at least of non-drm media) or, at the very least, gain a presence on every User's desktop\laptop\netbook who uses that Service to synch their music, et al.

    On the device side, the majority of Pre owners didn't buy the Pre just because it could synch to iTunes, that is just an added convenience. But these same Pre owners who do use iTunes to synch may be inclined, if they were certain the compatiability was going to last, to purchase products through the iTunes Store. Likewise I do not foresee any Pre owners turning in their devices just because the synch to iTunes is broken.
    I also agree with this statment
  2. #22  
    I can see your point though. Apple has more responsibility because they sell computers and offer itunes as the defacto music app (i suppose..never owned one).
  3. #23  
    I dont use media sync. Why use it when you can just copy and paste? One thing I hate about ipods is There is no easy way to copy the mp3s back off the ipod if needed. It puts the files on there with a different filename. Itunes just plain sucks. I don't know why anyone would use it. I would rather use the alternative Ephpod if I used windows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    Does Amarok work with the Pre? I used it back in the day(before the most recent UI change) to sync my then gf's Nano, and it worked great.
    I just brought up amarok to test this fer ya. I am on ubuntu jaunty. So this is running under gnome. With kde libraries.
    Amarok
    Version 2.0.2
    Using KDE 4.2.2 (KDE 4.2.2)
    screenshot below

    It also works in banshee, Rythmbox and exaile.
    I would say anything that is made for an ipod should work with the pre.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by fain; 07/16/2009 at 10:18 AM.
  4. ualdayan's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    To me, this is like criticizing a homeowner for building a fence to keep trespassers off.

    Imagine if you came up with an easy to use mp3 player and spent thousands developing it. You realize that it's only half the battle and need to provide an easy to use sync app with it. You spend thousands more getting it right.

    It's a huge success. You then make a phone that sets the market on fire. Your software app is very popular.

    Then someone comes along with a killer product that does a few extra things, but they hack it to work with YOUR software which negates a key advantage you have.

    If anyone fails here, it's Palm.
    Except in the technology world Microsoft has done FAR less insidious things and people crucify them over those moves. It's crazy that people defend Apple for intentionally cutting out competition, going so far as to intentionally try to break anybody else's ability to use their product with Apple's product when many of the same people would scream bloody murder if Microsoft did anything remotely similar.

    Heh - I can see it now, launch Itunes, have Microsoft pop up a window saying "Sorry, Apple is taking advantage of our property. We no longer will allow this to happen. You should try Zune instead. This is Apple's fault for trying to use OUR property we worked hard on to support their product's customers."

    Would people come to Microsoft's side with ridiculous arguments about "Oh, this is fair, this is just like a fence to keep trespasser's out" or would they say, and we all know this would be the real outcome of such a move, "Microsoft is such a bully! They're taking advantage of their monopoly position! EVIL MICROSOFT!"

    Itunes has a monopoly over music the same way Windows has a monopoly over the OS market. Can you pick other places to get your music? Yes. Can you install other operating systems? Yes. Is Itunes the most popular? Yes. Is Windows the most popular? Yes. What's fair is fair - you should treat Apple just as you would treat Microsoft.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by ualdayan View Post
    Except in the technology world Microsoft has done FAR less insidious things and people crucify them over those moves. It's crazy that people defend Apple for intentionally cutting out competition, going so far as to intentionally try to break anybody else's ability to use their product with Apple's product when many of the same people would scream bloody murder if Microsoft did anything remotely similar.

    Heh - I can see it now, launch Itunes, have Microsoft pop up a window saying "Sorry, Apple is taking advantage of our property. We no longer will allow this to happen. You should try Zune instead. This is Apple's fault for trying to use OUR property we worked hard on to support their product's customers."

    Would people come to Microsoft's side with ridiculous arguments about "Oh, this is fair, this is just like a fence to keep trespasser's out" or would they say, and we all know this would be the real outcome of such a move, "Microsoft is such a bully! They're taking advantage of their monopoly position! EVIL MICROSOFT!"

    Itunes has a monopoly over music the same way Windows has a monopoly over the OS market. Can you pick other places to get your music? Yes. Can you install other operating systems? Yes. Is Itunes the most popular? Yes. Is Windows the most popular? Yes. What's fair is fair - you should treat Apple just as you would treat Microsoft.
    I agree 100% They both suck!! I am starting to think apple sucks just a little bit more now though. Still, thats a tough call.
  6. #26  
    This is like saying "Sorry Macbook...... you shouldn't be running Windows OS, due to the fact that you are a Mac. We're going to cut you off. GOODBYE!"
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    To me, this is like criticizing a homeowner for building a fence to keep trespassers off.
    Actually that is quite a poor analogy. Apple isn't the home owner. The Pre was connecting to the users computer. If you must make a user the homeowner. It is like a cable company providing service to you home, who changes the signal to not work if you don't buy their TV.
    Last edited by sacherjj; 07/16/2009 at 10:52 AM.
  8. #28  
    All: Please don't flame me for the following statement, but I think we are all forgetting one very huge thing... Apple created the ridiculous, somewhat encrypted, unintelligible file system for the iPods to keep people from messing around with it and preventing other software from sync'ing with it... let's face it, it makes it more difficult. That being said, iTunes was released as a way to try and force the amateur tech user, a category into which most consumers fall, to use it as the sole method and, by the way, to push the iTunes store into that same market. Apple's DRM also makes it more difficult, and unfortunately, our Pre cannot play Apple DRM encapsulated files. Therefore, and in conclusion, Apple had absolutely NO reason to allow the Pre to continue to sync with it free and clear, as there was no upside other than some potential brand recognition GoodWill - which, roughly translated into financese, means jack nada to top line Apple revenues.
    Lee Ladisky
  9. #29  
    My grievance is with iTunes and not with Palm. The average user may feel that Palm let them down. I know it will fall on deaf ears, but I am going to send a note to Apple and let them know that I will buy my music from somewhere else. Those guys are not stupid, but I am sure in their decision, they have discussed re-enabling this if iTunes is going to lose money. They just need to count all the complaints.

    Now, does anyone have a good suggestion for somewhere else?
    I plan to use Media Monkey, (I bought it 6 months ago) but then got lazy and went back to using Itunes.
    Thank you
  10. #30  
    All Apple is going to get from me out of this move is one less person buying music from their store and one less person using iTunes.

    There are five iPods in the household but we won't be buying any more, I'm tired of all their BS. I gave up on their computers a long time ago and now they're breaking the final tie.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
    My grievance is with iTunes and not with Palm. The average user may feel that Palm let them down. I know it will fall on deaf ears, but I am going to send a note to Apple and let them know that I will buy my music from somewhere else. Those guys are not stupid, but I am sure in their decision, they have discussed re-enabling this if iTunes is going to lose money. They just need to count all the complaints.

    Now, does anyone have a good suggestion for somewhere else?
    I plan to use Media Monkey, (I bought it 6 months ago) but then got lazy and went back to using Itunes.
    Amazon
  12. #32  
    Apple is missing an opportunity to position iTunes as the de facto media software...This move is shortsighted and petty...
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by pugnut View Post
    Palm's grand plan was to hack the connection and trick the system to thinking it was a ipod, seems pretty lame. After spending $400 million one would have thought they would have had a better approach. Fact remains that while everyone thinks this is the small vs the big, the user community is stuck without a non hacked option.
    Are you somehow under the deluded impression that Palm spent $400 million for this one feature? Seriously??
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Pretending to be an iPod IS the best way, because of how many people use iTunes already.

    That makes no sense. Why bother trying to sell webOS or a Pre when most people use something else?

    Why's Google fooling with developing an OS if most people use something else? Why did they fool with Chrome if most people use something else?

    Palm's opportunity here is to make a better itunes with their own version of how things should be done. Amazon should be foaming at the mouth with the possible prospect of selling video on a mobile OS. Itunes is far from being ideal, IMO.
    I think the difference is that Palm (likely) has no interest in getting into the tunes business. They want to sell smartphones, and the OS for them.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think the difference is that Palm (likely) has no interest in getting into the tunes business. They want to sell smartphones, and the OS for them.
    Good debate though.

    Smartphones offer a multimedia experience. Palm has to find a way other than drop & drag to get it done (and other than hacking into itunes). We can sit all day and talk about how easy that might be or whatever, but most want to use an app to do it and a way to easily acquire and install media.

    If i was Palm, I wouldn't want in the tunes business either. But i sure as heck would want to offer it. I'd rather outsource that pain. And they did. Amazon has a mp3 store on the Pre. I could care less if i didn't make one cent selling media..but by offering it, and if it will help sell webOS devices, then i'm all over it.

    I'm not a software writer but i can't imagine it'd be that rough to put together a desktop app that does this along with ports to the app catalog, and amazon's audio and video stores. Amazon would play along IMO especially if Palm gave em incentive.

    With such software at their disposal, compatible with all webOS devices, Palm could even enter the pda/media player market (which apple owns right now).
  16. #36  
    IMO, its pretty dumb of Apple to shut out the Pre users. Its like saying, no, your money isn't good enough. What they're doing similar to what the RIAA did with napster. It made more people listen to music rather than just the typical CD buyers. I almost never bought CD, but after napster, it made me get into music much more. It does not hurt Apple, at least not significantly to allow other devices sync with itunes, but they're too narrow minded to see that of course.
  17. Xenovic's Avatar
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    #37  
    I am not anti-Apple. I think the big bite is a great company with some innovative ideas, and I think the iPhone significantly changed the face of the mobile market for the better.

    But, Apple has decided to cut off its nose to spite its face on this one.

    I liked using iTunes to buy my music and then sync it with my Pre. Seemed to me that Apple was getting the best of both worlds here, they weren't able to sell me an iPhone (because AT&T doesn't operate where I live) but they are still able to make money off of me.

    I say, no more!

    Boycott Apple until they let us use their service again. Don't buy music or videos from the iTunes library. Don't buy iPods, laptops, desktops, servers or even headphones from the company until they understand that we really were happy enough to co-exist.

    Hopefully this will show them that their squabbling with rivals doesn't help their bottom line, and it hurts the consumers.
  18. #38  
    Let's say Apple makes .05 per song you buy (it's probably more in the .01 to .03 range). Apple makes tons of cash selling you an iPod or iPhone. If they make $100 per iPod/iPhone sold, you'd have to buy 2,000 songs and put on the Pre to make that $100 they lose because they allowed it to sync. I doubt that's going to fit in the device. They want you to buy their devices.

    I agree that Apple will lose out on 100% of the revenue of potential Pre customers buying songs; however, if they leave this open it could eventually have a negative impact on their iPod sales.

    Should Microsoft cut off the Windows version of iTunes just how Apple is cutting off the Pre? No.... Apple didn't reverse engineer Windows to get iTunes to run.
  19. #39  
    Catherine is smart, techy, AND she's darn pretty.
    Scary's in love.
    Keep up the great work!

    Meet the bloggers | Test Drive the Palm Pre from Spr - CNET Reviews
  20. SharonW's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    Actually that is quite a poor analogy. Apple isn't the home owner. The Pre was connecting to the users computer. If you must make a user the homeowner. It is like a cable company providing service to you home, who changes the signal to not work if you don't buy their TV.
    I see the analogy as the computer as real estate and iTunes a retail store. The land owner (computer owner) gets to use the iTunes retail store if they give it access to the land. However, what Apple, is in essence doing, is saying "Paper or plastic (iPod or iPhone)" when you attempt to leave the store with your purchases. And if you say "Neither, thanks, I've got my reusable green bag with me (Pre). I'll just put it in here." Apple says, "Well then, you can only listen to what we're selling right here. You can't leave the store with it unless you purchase, from us, a plastic bag or a paper one."
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