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  1. IMethos's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Carioca_FL View Post
    Ok, I'll bite:

    What the **** is "30...30...30..."??
    I believe the Op is reffering to the "pitiful number of apps" in the app catalog
  2. Clack's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Well, it's nice to see you've found an excuse for not developing. I guess it beats "I can't develop on the Pre, and I hate Palm because of it".
    First, my handle on the dev site is certainly not what I use here.

    Second, most of that have been following it have been bound by an NDA though it has been relaxed a bit recently.

    Third, you need to stop projecting your own naivety and coming to a conclusion based on your prejudice.

    Being critical of a platform I expect to make money on is no different than investors wanting to see a company turn a profit.

    And there are many development firms and independent developers who are not simply disappointment in the delays of the SDK and App Store, but have decided not to pursue the platform as a result.

    Like it or hate, Apple defined the industry and has been good a whooping development resources for very good reasons not apparent to the lay public.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  3. Clack's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by IMethos View Post
    I believe the Op is reffering to the "pitiful number of apps" in the app catalog
    Which is due to the bungling of the SDK and App store
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  4. IMethos's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    Which is due to the bungling of the SDK and App store
    i WAS being sarcastic, hence the eye rolling.
  5. Clack's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by IMethos View Post
    i WAS being sarcastic, hence the eye rolling.
    How can one be sarcastic over a true statement?
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  6. #46  
    I'm seeing a confrontational attitude from all sides here - why is everybody jumping from Zero to "You're wrong, check your facts?" "No you're wrong" right away?

    People - a question mark here, an "I think" there, a "IMHO" over here, a "Seems to me" over there..... and suddenly you're having a productive conversation instead of an argument.

    Closed.
  7. #47  
    This thread has run its course. Too hostile too quickly besides there are another 40 threads on how there is a lack of apps in the App Catalog.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    First, my handle on the dev site is certainly not what I use here.
    ...
    Huh?? Who said anything about handles anywhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    ...
    Second, most of that have been following it have been bound by an NDA though it has been relaxed a bit recently.
    ...
    So? That doesn't support your misstatement that the SDK is in beta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    ...
    Third, you need to stop projecting your own naivety and coming to a conclusion based on your prejudice.
    ...
    I've based my conclusion on what I've seen you post. Baseless negative comments are frequently "thanked" by you, though they have not basis in fact. Followed by the comments you are making about the "beta" SDK. Those are either your ignorance, or simmply lies.

    I'll make it simple for you. Show us a source that indicates the SDK is beta.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by jewel View Post
    Oops! Another whiner thread. I better go to the next post.
    +2
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter Bohn View Post

    Closed.
    Lol. You forgot to close it, Mr. Dieter.
  11. Clack's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Huh?? Who said anything about handles anywhere?
    An observant person would have concluded that I have a dev account for the SDK and therefore prevy to information non-dev don't have.

    So? That doesn't support your misstatement that the SDK is in beta.
    Again, see the comment above. The SDK released today for the general public is Beta even if the word isn't used.

    I've based my conclusion on what I've seen you post. Baseless negative comments are frequently "thanked" by you, though they have not basis in fact. Followed by the comments you are making about the "beta" SDK. Those are either your ignorance, or simmply lies.

    I'll make it simple for you. Show us a source that indicates the SDK is beta.
    Well, baseless fan boys who consider any negative criticism of the Pre as an attack on them does far more damage than folks who make an earnest attempt at describing their problems. It doesn't matter if the resolution they are seeking is "venting", "trouble shooting" or simply trying to understand market they have become part of.

    Calling everyone a whiner as you do does no one any good. Luckily, however, there are a diversity of people with a diversity of back grounds that contriubute on a daily basis. Agreeing with them is not the point, but accepting a diversity of communication styles is.

    But then again, my audacity not one hope, but to act.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  12. #52  
    Yeah, the Pre has 30 apps and the iPhone a zillion. But what I loved was that Apple recently picked out their top 30 apps for the iphone (non-games) for their one year anniversary of the app store (I know some people love their games. I've got Macs, PCs, and PS3 for that). Anyway, look at the top 30 apps in the app store as compiled by Apple:
    Included in the top 30 of all time:
    1) Fandango (Pre already has it)
    2) AP Mobile (Pre has it)
    3) Flightview (Pre has it)
    4) Pandora (Pre has it)
    5) MLB.com (already announced)
    6) NY Times (Pre has it)
    7) Twitter app (Pre has one)
    8) Google Earth (google maps with satellite available)
    9) Weather Bug (Pre has Accuweather)

    So, one month after introduction, the Pre already has almost 30% of the top 30 app available on the iPhone - according to Apple. Not bad if you ask me. They cover news, flights, radio, sports, social media, and weather. Believe me, the next crop fo apps will not be as useful as the quality apps we already have. I'm looking forward to it as much as anyone, but let's keep it in perspective.
  13. Clack's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by millertime View Post
    So, one month after introduction, the Pre already has almost 30% of the top 30 app available on the iPhone - according to Apple. Not bad if you ask me. They cover news, flights, radio, sports, social media, and weather. Believe me, the next crop fo apps will not be as useful as the quality apps we already have. I'm looking forward to it as much as anyone, but let's keep it in perspective.
    While I appreciate your analysis, I would be hesitant to declare innovation is stifled.

    While a few fan boys on the site detest any negative criticism of their new toy, webOS does provide an innovative new interface. Ignoring the hardware issues, webOS itself is on par with issue for an OS that evolved from a well established source base. However, the failure to have the SDK itself delivered in a more timely fashion was a gross oversight by Palm... they should have opened the platform up much sooner and would have benefited from beta testing while the phone itself was considered to in Beta.

    None the less, it is a mistake to assume all the greatest things that could be done have been done on the mobile platform (iPhone, Android, Black Berry, or webOS). And as you also imply, it is also a mistake that good ideas will only be developed for 1 platform.

    Anyway, having 10 apps of 30 available that the Pre Shares with Apple who has a significant head start on Palm really doesn't say anything good about Palm. Had the SDK been released in beta form to a larger set of developers, not only would the Beta Store have more apps, the SDK would have likely shipped on time (at the same time as the phone). Frankly, Palm should be doing better than Apple in following on Apple shirt tails.

    While I am still skeptical that the Pre can catch / be an iPhone killer, however, we will see what happens by Xmas.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    ...
    Again, see the comment above. The SDK released today for the general public is Beta even if the word isn't used.
    Based on what? You've repeatedly referred to their announcement. The announcement referred to the early access program in the past tense. You've told others to "check their fact", but either haven't done so yourself, or haven't said how that's to be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    ...
    Well, baseless fan boys who consider any negative criticism of the Pre as an attack on them does far more damage than folks who make an earnest attempt at describing their problems.
    No argument here from me. I've had plenty of complaints myself. And when I've countered folks like yourself, I've backed up what I've said; so it's hardly "baseless". I think you're description of "earnest attempt" is subjective, and open to other interpretations though.
    ...
    [/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    ...
    Calling everyone a whiner as you do does no one any good. Luckily, however, there are a diversity of people with a diversity of back grounds that contriubute on a daily basis. Agreeing with them is not the point, but accepting a diversity of communication styles is.
    ...
    First, I don't think I've ever called anyone on here a whiner (but it is possible, I can certainly think of some that are...); but I'm certain I don't call "everyone" a whiner. I've got my own set of complaints. But, spreading false information, then agreeing with anyone that will post anything negative just for the sake of doing so is trollish.
    It's not your communication style I disagree with, it's your misinformation. Facts are facts. You challenged us to "check them out". We have. You've offered nothing concrete other than your say so.
  15. #55  
    I suspect that someone that has that many posts in a row that refer to the generic "fanboys" on this site, as if everyone that holds a differing opinion than he qualifies, needs to do some serious introspection concerning motives.

    If he/she doesn't, I think it's high time that the mods do.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    ...
    While I am still skeptical that the Pre can catch / be an iPhone killer, however, we will see what happens by Xmas.
    FWIW, this one we agree on. I don't think the Pre is going to catch the iPhone by Christmas, nor do I think it's going to be an "iPhone killer".

    Fortunately, Palm has said, from the outset, that "killing" the iPhone isn't their goal. Selling phones. That's their goal.

    They're doing it.
  17. Lito305's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by lint View Post
    there is already a few threads about this. If you dont like the app store return your phone within the 30 days.
    thank you!!! I agree!!! Sick of threads on this same topic!
  18. Clack's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    First, I don't think I've ever called anyone on here a whiner (but it is possible, I can certainly think of some that are...); but I'm certain I don't call "everyone" a whiner. I've got my own set of complaints. But, spreading false information, then agreeing with anyone that will post anything negative just for the sake of doing so is trollish.
    It's not your communication style I disagree with, it's your misinformation. Facts are facts. You challenged us to "check them out". We have. You've offered nothing concrete other than your say so.
    Again, reading comprehension. The context of "calling everyone a whiner" was clearly in the context of "fanboys".

    Second, I don't agree with everyone that posts something negative. I am interested (even if I don't agree with them) what people don't like about the device. It is many on this form who act trollish when they post "another whiner post" on threads in which someone comments negatively on the Pre. The difference, subtle for many I know, when someone criticizes they don't simply say I don't like it, they include their reason for not liking it. They also get bonus points for stating what they constructively did to address their like/dislikes. Agreeing with them is not the point, understanding their position and how it came to be is the point.

    I primarily use the Socratic method in evaulating what someone has to say. If the there logic fails, then the fact of their failed logic is enough and no further proof is necessary.

    Case in point, another forum member rebutting someone for claiming that hunderds or thounds of Pres have been returned is false.

    The rebutt was wrong. As I pointed on in that thread, we all will agree that Palm has likely shipped 100000 units by now. If 1% of 100000 have been returned, then it is valid to say 100s of units have been returned. If 2% of 100000 units have been returned, then it is valid to say 1000s of units have been returned.

    It wasn't relevant why they were returned at that point in the response. Anything else the person had to say in their rebuttle wasn't relevant because they commited a logical fallacy to base the rest of their argument on.

    So, facts aren't simply some piece of data, but the legitmacy of the statement being made. And most fail.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    Again, reading comprehension. The context of "calling everyone a whiner" was clearly in the context of "fanboys".
    ...
    Well, except that you quoted me, then used the words "as you do".
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    ...
    Calling everyone a whiner as you do does no one any good.
    ...
    I don't think "comprehension" was the problem, I believe it was "composition".
  20. Clack's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    FWIW, this one we agree on. I don't think the Pre is going to catch the iPhone by Christmas, nor do I think it's going to be an "iPhone killer".

    Fortunately, Palm has said, from the outset, that "killing" the iPhone isn't their goal. Selling phones. That's their goal.

    They're doing it.
    I am glad we agree on the point in general.

    But, if the Pre isn't aiming to be an iPhone killer, what's the point? The reality is Palm both wants to reclaim the success of it's past as well as setting the market trends by selling phones. They may not like and attempt to distance themselves from the moniker of "iPhone Killer" but don't kid yourself that being "kind of the hill" isn't their goal.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
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