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  1. Clack's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by IMethos View Post
    I will only believe a pre cracks spontaneously if i see it. And I have yet to see it
    Luckily, you are not an engineer and hopefully not manager at a Sprint retail location.

    The Cracks being reported as radiating from the home key are believable and consistent with having a part stressed.

    It is also unreasonable to expect a phone to not survive a 4ft drop.

    It's too bad many consumers look to business for education rather than understanding such issues for themselves. But then again, most go to public schools, huh?
    Last edited by Clack; 07/14/2009 at 11:39 PM.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  2. #42  
    5-star thread
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
    Here is what I sent to the AG of CA. Let you know what I hear.


    Palm Inc. began selling a new phone (the Palm Pre) for Sprint PCS networks June 6th 2009.

    The phones have several major issues, chief among them is that the screen can break during regular use making the phone unusable.
    The phones that are with broken screens have a common theme (cracks originating from the bottom of the screen near the center button).
    In some cases the phones break after only a few hours.
    In my case, the phone broke in my hand, while speaking to Sprint about another defect issue.

    Palm has denied any knowledge of this defect, but you can find many incidents on Palm's own website (Palm USA - Mobile Products for Consumers, Professionals, and Businesses) in the forums.

    Contributing to the issue is that Palm's warranty covers the manufacturer’s defect, but the troubleshooting process is flawed.
    Through an arrangement, the wireless phone company “Sprint” does the root cause analysis of the phone issues.
    Palm’s policy supported by Sprint is that all phone's with cracked screens are broken because of abuse.
    Palm’s policy supported by Sprint means that customers with valid warranty claims are denied those claims without consideration to root cause.
    Palm’s policy supported by Sprint does not require documentation as a possible manufacturer’s defect.
    Palm’s policy supported by Sprint for users that purchase an insurance contract through a 3rd party company (Assurion) is to instruct the users to file an insurance claim.
    Palm’s policy supported by Sprint does not consider that the screen’s are breaking as a function of the poor design/materials engineering by Palm.
    Sprint & Palm together are asking customers to file insurance claims that should be covered by warranty.
    Sprint & Palm may be asking customers to commit insurance fraud.

    Resolution:
    A) I would like Palm and Sprint to change their root cause analysis method to catch these issues with materials/craftsmanship early.
    B) I would like Palm and Sprint to change their policy to document all issues regardless of wether or not the recommendation is ultimately refered to insurance company.
    C) I would like Palm and Sprint to cease & desist from their oral policy of stating that “Physical Damage” is not covered by the warranty.
    D) I would like Palm and Sprint to instead use the term “Physical Abuse” which more accurately describes the types of damage not covered by the warranty.
    E) I would like Palm and Sprint to issue a refund or credit to anyone who has had to return a Palm Pre due to screen damage not caused by abuse.
    F) I would like Palm and Sprint to add prominent signs stating the difference between “Physical Damage” and “Physical Abuse”.
    G) I would like a letter from Palm explaining that they acknowledge the difference between “Physical Damage” and “Physical Abuse”.
    =FAIL
  4. #44  
    "The Cracks being reported as radiating from the home key are believable and consistent with having a part stressed."

    I agree. This looks like the screen has failed for many users due to stress on cheaply made parts. I think Palm should know about it and replace the damage without a run-around.

    *I'd like to know if anyone here has ever read about people going through any other cell phone model 3, 4, or 5 times before getting a good one??*

    Here is someone on his 5th Pre:
    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...phone-btw.html
  5. IMethos's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    Luckily, you are not an engineer and hopefully not manager at a Sprint retail location.

    The Cracks being reported as radiating from the home key are believable and consistent with having a part stressed.

    It is also unreasonable to expect a phone to not survive a 4ft drop.

    It's to bad many consumors look to business for education rather than understanding such issues for themselves. But then again, most go to public schools, huh?
    You are a loser. What grace to come into a forum and bash public schools to make a point. I <---Me, I don't believe it. Deal with it.
  6. reminiz's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post

    It's to bad many consumors look to business for education rather than understanding such issues for themselves. But then again, most go to public schools, huh?
    hopefully you didn't get your spelling from a private school. It's consumers.
  7. #47  
    HAHAHA its a 200 dollar phone get over it
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Reminiz View Post
    hopefully you didn't get your spelling from a private school. It's consumers.
    Many more errors in what you quoted than you mention here.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    The Cracks being reported as radiating from the home key are believable and consistent with having a part stressed.
    So,
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
    In my case, the phone broke in my hand, while speaking to Sprint about another defect issue.
    is totally believable, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    It's to bad many consumors look to business for education rather than understanding such issues for themselves. But then again, most go to public schools, huh?
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Reminiz View Post
    hopefully you didn't get your spelling from a private school. It's consumers.
    Yeah, and "too bad", not "to bad". And he rags on public schools?

    Another for my ignore list.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by KeFkA666 View Post
    HAHAHA its a 200 dollar phone get over it
    550 to get a new one if Sprint or Palm doesn't play ball tho
  12. Omega33's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by IMethos View Post
    I will only believe a pre cracks spontaneously if i see it. And I have yet to see it
    I've seen it. Right in the hands of the sprint employee setting up the phone for me LOL. They were as shocked as me so I'm guessing it's a rare thing. That was on launch day so maybe they have seen more but i really doubt it's a common thing. I'll take a wild guess and say well under 1% of pre's
  13. #53  
    Gawd, what a horribly written letter. You should have had your parents check it before you sent it off.
  14. #54  
    you know, it does fall on you to prove it is a material or manufacturing defect. Palm does not have to prove that on their own, they may if enough heat is generated by consumer complaints, but I doubt these issues are wide spread enough. What is your proof that this is related to the manufacturing process or in the design? I mean if you were serious you would have already contacted an engineer to look at the phone and make a professional reccomondation about the problems it would have based on the design an material. A lawyer would want this done before bringing any kind of case...who knows it could turn out being the proof that makes palm acknowledge the issue...if there is one.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  15. squeff's Avatar
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    #55  
    OK, folks. As someone that does NOT reside in California, but once filed a complaint with the California AG, let me share some first hand insight.

    (1) You do NOT need to reside in California to contact the AG or to get a response. The CA AG is responsible for businesses operating within their state, regardless of where the consumer is.

    (2) A consumer can ALSO file within their own state. While a non-California AG has no ability to act based on California law, they can certainly take action for a company that does not comply with their laws. In extreme cases, an AG can prohibit a company from selling their goods in a state.

    (3) The AG's office does NOT act on behalf of an individual. What they do when they get a letter like this is forward it to the company. They keep a copy on file. The company is not obligated to do a single thing. They don't even have to respond, although many will.

    (4) If the AG's office gets "sufficient" complaints about a company, the AG can decide to investigate. The number for "sufficient" is not exact. They can decide to act on just 2 complaints. Or wait until they have 10,000,000. The decision is based more on politics, media, and actual harm. For example, a company that's ripping off retirees is likely to get more quickly investigated than a company that's selling smartphones that tend to break too easily.

    (5) After an investigation, the AG's office determines if legal action is warranted. They do not, in general, have the power to shut down a company or make them do anything. What the AG's office does is file a lawsuit. With the AG acting as the plaintiff on behalf od the citizens of California. A judge and/or jury (depends) then makes a decision.

    (6) Only when the court makes a decision does the AG's office has any power to "go after" a company.

    Bottom line: there's no harm in writing a letter like this (except that frivolous complaints further burden the already strapped California government). But don't expect anything to come of it. At best, the AG will find that there is potential fraud here and take Palm to court. A ruling should happen in, on, 2 or 3 years.

    Trust me, I've been there.

    A better route, if you honestly have evidence of bona fide insurance fraud, is to contact Assurion and let them know that they should be rejecting claims from Palm Pre users regarding cracked screens. Is that what you want?
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by KeFkA666 View Post
    HAHAHA its a 200 dollar phone get over it
    It isn't a $200 phone - it's a subsidized, $200 phone. The retail price of the phone, as printed, is $599 at Sprint and even higher elsewhere. And when something breaks because of a defect in the phone versus use of the phone, and you are required to pay $$ to resolve it, it becomes even more expensive. To assume the OP paid $200 is falacious and flawed as we do not know his, or anyone elses for that matter, contract situation.

    To the OP - I salute your effort and appreciate you taking a flogging so professionally and unemotionally.

    To the rest of you: Try to stop practicing censorship, if you don't like his post or idea, then don't continue to read it and, especially AND, if you have nothing constructive to add, posting disagreement and flames is NOT a good use of anyone ELSES time.
    Lee Ladisky
  17. Omega33's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Gawd, what a horribly written letter. You should have had your parents check it before you sent it off.
    lol i wouldn't be that mean but if he is really serious i would probably have a lawyer draw up a new letter. I would do that if it was me. I would want it to be as professional as possible and I would think a lawyer would word it best.
  18. #58  
    I've had a major crack that was inflicted by my own clumsy fault. But I'd have to say being a long time Palm/Sprint customer the Pre issues have been handled a million times better then the past phones i.e. Treos. I can remember when we had real issues with the Treo 700p and instead crying to the AG we respectfully and insistently asked Palm to fix these issues. So if you want a lesson in unresolved issues, frustration and dedicated users looking only for a solution read this thread. Because it just might give you insight to some of the responses you're getting on this thread.

    The appropriate reaction should always be used given the particular problem. Most people on this site don't see Sprint or Palm as a "bad guy" who needs to be dealt with using lawsuits or letters to the AG. Most people here see the frustration as communication issues that can be solved over time with clear and respectful persistence. Class action lawsuits and such acts rarely benefit anyone but the lawyers and users would rather have a working phone now then a $10 check 7 years later.

    I've had nothing but the easiest time getting any and all issues with my Pre fixed. I had a new one sent to me 2 days after calling Sprint so that crack wont even matter since I have a new one now. You have to be realistic. Sprint can't replace every phone that has a crack in it unless you have some proof that it's a defect, that's why most people get insurance to deal with those issues that are either completely your fault or are in a gray area where it's not worth wasting time over. At $7/month if you only needed it once in two years it would pay for itself.
  19. #59  
    2 of our 25 phones suffer the screen crack issues on the exact bottom right portion, and it is getting worst daily.

    Phones were purchased at radio shack on launch day, and too bad now radio shack around here does not have them in stock.

    Taken them to sprint store and got the 'didnt buy it here, won't replace it limbo'

    Also, the rude sprint manager kept saying it was negligence for the screen cracks

    ...in the end still trying to get these 2 units warrantied


    Btw, letter needs to be re-checked, very poorly written (just my opinion)
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega33 View Post
    I've seen it. Right in the hands of the sprint employee setting up the phone for me LOL. They were as shocked as me so I'm guessing it's a rare thing. That was on launch day so maybe they have seen more but i really doubt it's a common thing. I'll take a wild guess and say well under 1% of pre's
    Definitely well under 1%. However, as you know, that doesn't mean it's not an issue. If Sprint would resolve these obvious situations for everyone like they did mine, there wouldn't be an issue. The problem has been that Sprint has claimed this to be user damage - even though the "damage" as seen in many pictures posted here is exactly the same on multiple phones. That's one big coincidence if it doesn't have something to do with the phone.

    Again, this spontaneous cracking happened to me, as documented in the very long "cracked screen" thread. My issue was resolved immediately by my local Sprint store. It seems that most of the others with the same issue have not been given the same treatment as I received.
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