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  1. DuStU's Avatar
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       #1  
    So I am posting this to get all your opinions on the current issue of the phone lagging when scrolling and populating things. In a few posts people talk about how the phone app is the laggiest thing on this phone (agreed) but also I notice when scrolling through contacts or photos (I have 220) the phone gets confused and thinks its the end and does the bounce back, populates the material then gets confused and then just reapers in a weird spot. What do you think is causing the issue and how could it be solved?

    In my opinion I think it all has to do with caching. The phone seems to cut corners by "loading" a little more than you see on the screen. I guess it was done to make the program lighter. All I know is there are two downsides to the populating (pulling from the internet) crap. Bad signal or none (for apps) you are screwed. Trying to get to that picture at the bottom of 1,000 pictures.... time for the waiting game. Thank goodness for the contacts app you can just type the name you are looking for or I would be pulling out my hair with that issue.

    To solve the problem I think caching would do the trick. Just like most OS's do on phones and pc's. Just remember how it looked last time and store it somewhere. I dont know how much space that would take up but it would sure fix the chopiness problem.

    What do you think guys? Correct me if I am wrong because I am just brainstorming here. I think if that would be solved it would make this phone 100 notches better and that is alot since this phone is already great.
  2. #2  
    The phone is terrible at scrolling in every program. Most of the major programs (calendar, photos, email and browser) need work to improve the lag and stuttering. Including the checkerboard effect. I have also noticed the lag and bounce effect that you have described and there is no reason for it. The device needs to properly cache and use the memory it has.

    The average user is going to have a few cards open, not 15, so there is no reason for the device to work as if expecting 15 cards allocating such a small % of ram and resources when nothing else is open. Its slopping coding plain and simple.

    This is one big area where the Pre lags seriously behind the Iphone GS. Something hopefully they can address. Preferably before the HTC hero comes out which is the next device I will jump ship to if palm remains sitting with their thumb up their rear end.

    The 1.1 update looks to add some much needed exchange support, something that should have been out of the box. I'm not hopeful many regular issues will get addressed prior to Fall considering 1.1 is slated for 30 days and really doesn't look to address any non exchange issues as of yet.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    This is one big area where the Pre lags seriously behind the Iphone GS.
    Very true. The Pre lags the iPhone 3GS by over two years, in terms of the optimization that's been done on the OS. Frustrating as these performance issues are, this optimization still has to be done on the Pre, and will be an ongoing process. And yes, this makes the Pre less competitive today, but those are the cards that've been dealt (very subtle pun not intended, although it's a nice one).
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  4. DuStU's Avatar
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       #4  
    Anyone else have any theories on what it may be? It sure isnt a lack of processing power...
  5. mapara's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by DuStU View Post
    Anyone else have any theories on what it may be? It sure isnt a lack of processing power...
    Video card lol
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Very true. The Pre lags the iPhone 3GS by over two years, in terms of the optimization that's been done on the OS. Frustrating as these performance issues are, this optimization still has to be done on the Pre, and will be an ongoing process. And yes, this makes the Pre less competitive today, but those are the cards that've been dealt (very subtle pun not intended, although it's a nice one).

    As a previous iphone owner, and current Pre owner... I can safely say that it lags in smoothness even to the first generation iphone too. I owned the First and Second Generation Iphones. I like the Pre, but it just can't touch the iphone on rendering and screen responsiveness. Now then, the Pre kicks the crap out of the iphone on multi-tasking.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by tampashooters View Post
    As a previous iphone owner, and current Pre owner... I can safely say that it lags in smoothness even to the first generation iphone too. I owned the First and Second Generation Iphones. I like the Pre, but it just can't touch the iphone on rendering and screen responsiveness. Now then, the Pre kicks the crap out of the iphone on multi-tasking.
    I can second this.

    I'm going to have to recompile the kernel with the timer frequency set at 1000Hz to see how much that helps. I have no idea why any device that is supposed to have decent interactive performance would have CONFIG_HZ set to only 100Hz.
  8. jewel's Avatar
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    #8  
    Do you think future updates on the OS will solve this lag problem? Or is it dependent on the processor speed?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by jewel View Post
    Do you think future updates on the OS will solve this lag problem? Or is it dependent on the processor speed?
    The processor and graphics are definitely more than fast enough. The problem is with inefficient, poorly optimized software. So yes, this is something that could be fixed.
  10. #10  
    I'm glad people are pointing this out. I don't know how many people on this forum have actually used an iPhone, but the Pre's scrolling and general responsiveness is way behind the iPhone - even older versions. I hope that the processor and graphics are fast enough - most people that know more about this than me believe that they are (the iPhone GS and the Palm Pre have same processor - they are the only two phones on the market with this advanced chipset). The iPhone GS may have a slightly faster video card (unknown at this point) but as stated Pre's graphics card is much faster than the iphone 3G, for example. I'm just hoping that it is not a limitation of using WebOS. Because of the programming language, some people believe that WebOS is going to be slower in applications than the iPhone objective C language.
  11. #11  
    Definitely slower and I have owned 1, 2nd and 3g iphones.

    it is a bit dissapointing as one of the comments from Palm was about how their lightweight WebOS would be faster than the "too much for a mobile device" OSX

    i hope they fix it
  12. DuStU's Avatar
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       #12  
    Yes the other day I was just using my friends iphone 3G just to see how the scrolling was compared to this device. The frames are definetly solid no matter what you do on the phone. To me I agree with the memory leak comment. I believe still (ignorant assesment) that caching would solve the majority of this lag. The browser also has this laggy issue....fast flicking is useless if you are going to constantly run into the checkers. I just scroll slowly if I need to get to the bottom for now. Now will this be addressed in 1.0.5 I doubt it but I am sure it will be addressed before the end of the year ...they have to in order to keep building on this great platform.

    Processing power is NOT the issue at all. I also thing that what is lagging the phone is probably also eating the battery up and causing the heating up of the battery. It would be awesome if that is true and we get a 3 in 1 issue solved! Thanks guys for the great inputs.... keep em comin!
  13. Fishous's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by DuStU View Post
    ...In my opinion I think it all has to do with caching. The phone seems to cut corners by "loading" a little more than you see on the screen. I guess it was done to make the program lighter. ...
    This method of loading items as needed is implemented in many desktop programs as well. This is how programs like Outlook can "load" 10,000 items in the inbox very quickly. Item information is populated as they scroll into view. It's referred to as a Virtual Listview.

    As a programmer, I can tell you that method is many many many times faster than loading all the items before hand, and is also much lighter on memory.

    Now if it preloaded all the items before letting you scroll, users would probably complain about that also.

    Now as for the list seeming like it's at the bottom when it's not, that's probably a bug.

    However, the phone lagging could be a lack of optimization by Palm's programmers. It might also be that they are a bunch of newbies and can't even code a SMS sound preference setting.
    Mike Dixon
    Software Developer
  14. #14  
    I work for a big company and I was a developer long ago, I now manage developers. Our company just like I am sure others have started to outsource development work and the code that I have seen coming back from these outsources shows a lack of understanding and talent. It also shows how some of these people have not been classily trained as developers / programmers. With a lot of the newer languages you don't have to understand how the code runs, all that matters is that the code runs. In the past it was about how the code ran.
  15. #15  
    Yeah, this is probably my biggest gripe with the Pre. It's just not as smooth as the Touch/iPhone, even the lower powered 1g and 2g ones.
  16. #16  
    could be the multitasking that's causing it... meaning the features that make the pre unique also comes at a price because it must take a lot to manage it as well as everything else it must manage at all times. we will see how palm does in improving it in updates... these processors are fast but maybe still pushing at limits. and as they come out with new features like improved copy/paste, video recording, flash10, it's really going to be a balancing act.

    could be it wont get better until the second gen if they put in the new multicore processors that are out there now said to run faster and be more efficient (battery).

    Quote Originally Posted by tampashooters View Post
    As a previous iphone owner, and current Pre owner... I can safely say that it lags in smoothness even to the first generation iphone too. I owned the First and Second Generation Iphones. I like the Pre, but it just can't touch the iphone on rendering and screen responsiveness. Now then, the Pre kicks the crap out of the iphone on multi-tasking.
  17. Stihl's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzchic View Post
    Yeah, this is probably my biggest gripe with the Pre. It's just not as smooth as the Touch/iPhone, even the lower powered 1g and 2g ones.
    Definitely my largest issue as well, especially since it seems to be a memory thing. I figure it's the same reason that it's difficult having several cards open and 2 web pages without each web page auto refreshing every time you switch to it.
  18. DuStU's Avatar
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       #18  
    I know that it isnt a multitasking problem cuz it still lags with just one app open. Its a more underlying issue. I am confident its on their priority list of things to do.
  19. #19  
    Yeah, I don;t think it's a multitasking problem as well. Try soft resetting your phone and it will still won't feel as smooth going through the launcher compared to a 1G ipod touch with 2.0 software.

    It does seem like a software kind of thing(memory leaks, etc) so I'm quite confident it will be addressed very, very soon. Probably before the holiday season when Palm/Sprint goes to marketing overdrive.
  20. Xyg
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    #20  
    I have also noticed that it is not as fluid as the iPhone. The applications that scroll the best, and the ones I wish the other native applications would mimic, are DocView and PDFview.
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