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  1. Treo Dude's Avatar
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       #1  
    Not interested in using the built-in Backup app - but it apparently turns itself back on - as I check periodically and have to turn it back off.

    Thought maybe it was after power down / back up, but checked and that's not it.

    Any idea how to make it stay off - or what I'm doing that makes it turn back on?
  2. DNic's Avatar
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    #2  
    Odd, I turned mine off couple of weeks ago when i added all my contacts to gmail. Now its back on, I dont need or care for it to be on either.
    Maybe it turned back on after the latest update?
  3. Treo Dude's Avatar
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       #3  
    I turn it off several times a week.

    Why have an "on-off" switch if you can't turn it off?

    Reminds me of the "dummy" office thermostats that don't chnge the temperature.

    Very frustrating.
  4. #4  
    I have noticed this aswell... I'm sure turning it off would be a minor powersaver, it's ridiculous it keeps re-enabling itself
  5. Treo Dude's Avatar
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       #5  
    Was hoping the latest OS update would take care of this. No such luck.

    Why is Sprint forcing backups?

    Td
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo Dude View Post
    Was hoping the latest OS update would take care of this. No such luck.

    Why is Sprint forcing backups?

    Td
    I don't think we have enough information at this point to determine that Sprint is forcing anything. It could just as easily be Palm forcing backups; or what seems more likely to me, is that it's a bug.
  7. Treo Dude's Avatar
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronlongo View Post
    I don't think we have enough information at this point to determine that Sprint is forcing anything. It could just as easily be Palm forcing backups; or what seems more likely to me, is that it's a bug.
    Well, if it is a bug it's a big one, because we just discovered that it backs up, EVEN WHEN BACKUP IS TURNED OFF!

    I recently decided to keep the app up, but in the background. Yesterday, I noticed it had stayed off, but said "Last Backup 8/3/09 2:52 AM" Last night, it still showed off (as it does this morning) and yet it shows "Last Backup 8/4/09 2:52 AM"

    You call it a bug, I call it forced backups. Either way, it doesn't make me happy.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo Dude View Post
    Well, if it is a bug it's a big one, because we just discovered that it backs up, EVEN WHEN BACKUP IS TURNED OFF!

    I recently decided to keep the app up, but in the background. Yesterday, I noticed it had stayed off, but said "Last Backup 8/3/09 2:52 AM" Last night, it still showed off (as it does this morning) and yet it shows "Last Backup 8/4/09 2:52 AM"

    You call it a bug, I call it forced backups. Either way, it doesn't make me happy.
    I agree that it's a big issue. I think if backups were being forced that there wouldn't even be the option to turn it off. With no other indications of malace on the part of the service provider (Sprint) or the phone manufacturer (Palm), it's far more rational to assume that this is a bug. Further, what would be the motive to force backups? There's no evidence that Palm is performing data mining and in fact you can make your data be backed up to Google or Facebook so Palm wouldn't have access. This would seem to further reduce support for the claim of malace.

    While you may feel the distinction irrelevant, it is in fact a deciding factor in weather the issue will ever be adressed. If it's intentional, i doubt very much that it will be addressed barring sufficient complaints by the user community. On the other hand if it's a bug, it's more likely to fixed but only given its priority. Bugs are rampant in all software systems. No software company can afford to fix all bugs in production software. Therefore, companies prioritize bug fixes by number of user complaints, security, etc. and adress only those bugs with the highest priorities.
    Last edited by ronlongo; 08/04/2009 at 10:11 AM.
  9. Treo Dude's Avatar
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       #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronlongo View Post
    I agree that it's a big issue. I think if backups were being forced that there wouldn't even be the option to turn it off. With no other indications of malace on the part of the service provider (Sprint) or the phone manufacturer (Palm), it's far more rational to assume that this is a bug. Further, what would be the motive to force backups? There's no evidence that Palm is performing data mining and in fact you can make your data be backed up to Google or Facebook so Palm wouldn't have access. This would seem to further reduce support for the claim of malace.

    While you may feel the distinction irrelevant, it is in fact a deciding factor in weather the issue will ever be adressed. If it's intentional, i doubt very much that it will be addressed barring sufficient complaints by the user community. On the other hand if it's a bug, it's more likely to fixed but only given its priority. Bugs are rampant in all software systems. No software company can afford to fix all bugs in production software. Therefore, companies prioritize bug fixes by number of user complaints, security, etc. and adress only those bugs with the highest priorities.
    Well, I never said "malice" only that it seems like a really big "bug." Also, I'm not comfortable with all of my personal data being whisked off to be stored without my permission - or even my knowledge.

    And I agree that the priority for "fixing" it will be based on user complaints - which I expect there will be next to none.

    I admit I like more privacy than the average person - especially when it comes to details like the names, addresses and phone numbers of my every personal and business contact plus every appointment I've put in the device, let alone notes or anything else.

    I wasn't aware that you could re-direct the built-in Backup application to use Google or Facebook. Even so, I would imagine the majority of users (especially if they are unaware that nothing they do will stop the backup process) will default to the built-in Backup app. I don't want to provide the data to Google or Facebook either. That's one reason why I bought Missing Sync.

    Data-mining? Why not?

    Bottom line is that, to me, the idea that there is an on/off switch that not only turns itself back on, but also doesn't have any effect on the device backing itself up is, as you say, "a big issue."
    Last edited by Treo Dude; 08/04/2009 at 07:46 PM.
  10. Treo Dude's Avatar
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       #10  
    And from this August 14 article from Mac Rumors, by Marianne Schultz, comes a possible clue...


    Palm has come under fire in recent days in the wake of revelations that the Pre periodically sends what many consumers consider to be personal information, including GPS location and data on app usage, back to Palm's servers. Palm has defended its actions, noting that the company's privacy policy "includes very detailed language about potential scenarios in which we might use a customer's information, all toward a goal of offering a great user experience."
  11. #11  
    Thats very frustrating... When I saw this thread I immediately checked and yep the backup had turned itself back on without my permission.

    Thanks for the thread bump, I would have missed it otherwise. Gotta call and get the S&P official status on this one...
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by superduperpre View Post
    Thats very frustrating... When I saw this thread I immediately checked and yep the backup had turned itself back on without my permission.

    Thanks for the thread bump, I would have missed it otherwise. Gotta call and get the S&P official status on this one...
    Are you sure it's backing it up? My backup is turned on and yet the last time it automatically backed up was Aug 13th....co-incidentally the day "the article" came out (Aug 14th) is the day auto backups stopped.
  13. Treo Dude's Avatar
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       #13  
    I checked and it is still backing up - even when backup is turned off.

    The backup app says it's off, but also says "Last backup 8/17/09 2:52 AM"

    So it backed up overnight, despite the fact that it was turned "off."
  14. #14  
    yeah I just noticed this too, what gives? Why is there and on/off if you're going to force a back up anyway.
  15. Treo Dude's Avatar
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       #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by m3grady2 View Post
    yeah I just noticed this too, what gives? Why is there and on/off if you're going to force a back up anyway.
    Agreed. I plan to write to Palm and point it out. Anyone else who doesn't appreciate having their data sent to Palm without permission should also ask that they stop.
  16. #16  
    After experiencing the same thing, I placed a call to Sprint about it and they were flummoxed. They transferred me to Palm's tech assistance who then said that the Pre should absolutely NOT be Backing up info if we have phone Backup set to "Off".

    They gave a couple of suggestions to try, mostly feel good stuff like reboot the phone after changing the Backup setting from On to Off so that it "takes", etc.

    I tried these for a day or so, and their suggestions failed miserably. The pesky Pre is still changing it's own status back from Off to On and backing up (even in the absence of a reboot).

    At the time I called, Palm initiated a service contact number and asked me to call back and refernce it if the "bug" continued. They reiterated that the Backup takes place every 12 hours, but that we should be able to opt out with the OFF setting.

    I also asked that they consider separating the two available functions in this screen 1) stopping/starting Backup and 2) erasing personal info in the Palm server: Sometimes I might just want to stop Backup for a while, but retain my info on the server and othertimes I might want to keep the Backup active, but delete whats on the server.

    I will post again once I followup with Palm...
    Last edited by superduperpre; 08/26/2009 at 07:05 PM. Reason: make it clearer
  17. vreihen's Avatar
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    #17  
    Since they didn't want to adhere to the switch setting, I just popped the following line into /etc/hosts on my Pre:

    127.0.0.1 ps.palmws.com

    Any time my phone tries to resolve their backup host's IP address, it now gets the local loopback interface on the phone.

    My last backup was on 8/19, right before I did this. The switch is still on, but the packets don't go any further than my Pre's loopback adapter. When I try to run a manual backup, it complains about not having an Internet connection so it must be working.

    I don't know if this took the app catalog or any other useful Palm service off-line as a side effect, but it brings a smile to my face every time I look and see that the unsolicited backups haven't run. Oh, and I think that my battery life is better as an added benefit.....
  18. Treo Dude's Avatar
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       #18  
    Very cool.

    Can you tell me how to get to /etc/hosts ?

    td
  19. vreihen's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo Dude View Post
    Very cool.

    Can you tell me how to get to /etc/hosts ?
    From a Linux shell prompt. The SDK's novacom/novaterm app, ssh via PuTTY, or using one of the homebrew terminal apps that run directly on the phone.

    From a shell prompt:

    mount -o remount,rw /
    echo "127.0.0.1 ps.palmws.com" >> /etc/hosts
    mount -o remount,ro /

    Make sure to use >> and not > on the echo line, since >> appends the string to the end of the existing file, whereas > clobbers the contents of the file and puts in just the new string.

    You can test it before and after with the ping command:

    ping ps.palmws.com

    Press CTRL-C to exit ping, which should show 205.140.203.22 as the IP address before the change, and 127.0.0.1 after the change.

    Like I cautioned, this may break the app catalog, software updates, and your ability to remote wipe your phone if it's lost or stolen. For all I know, it may also fill up the internal flash memory building backup data batches that it can't send. It certainly did stop the uploads, though.....
  20. Treo Dude's Avatar
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       #20  
    Anything to stop the forced backups.

    As long as it can be changed back to reinstate updates/app catalog, it works for me.
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