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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    There is no standard Linux API.
    Dude, you should save your breath here...this clown is allergic to fact.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


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  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    Yes, but Google and T-Mobile also made it clear what the state of the App Store was gonna be.

    Also, my comprehension isn't the problem here. Pre is the 3rd player in this "app" market. Sprint/Palm dropped the ball on the App Market despite doing nothing original: They the experience and lessons from Apple and Google/T-Mobile to build on.

    And because Android promotes JVM based Apps, those apps will be easier to manage on any Android device.
    Exactly what webOS promotes... Or did you forget that?
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    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    There is no standard Linux API.
    Please, leave the Engineering to engineers. Linux is more or less POSIX complaint. This is not an argument you can remotely win.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    The iPhone was a relatively unique and original product.

    The Pre is not. Apple established what an app store should be. Palm Pre... well, the dropped the ball based on market experience. Even Google/T-Mobile have done better with their SDK and App store than Palm has.
    The name certainly was not unique..
    Phone trademark

    On January 10, 2007, Cisco Systems filed a lawsuit against Apple, standing that Apple's iPhone infringed on their iPhone trademark. The two companies were in negotiation to allow Apple the rights to use the name, although the meetings came to standstill when Cisco pushed for the two products to be interoperable. Cisco has alleged that Apple subsequently created a front company to try to acquire the rights another way. Following the public unveiling of the iPhone at the 2007 Macworld Expo, Cisco filed the lawsuit. Apple claimed that there will be no confusion between the two products, and that their iPhone is the first cell phone with such a name, Cisco's "iPhone" being a VoIP phone.[30] On February 21, 2007 Cisco and Apple announced an agreement under which both companies would be allowed to use the iPhone name worldwide.[31]
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    Exactly what webOS promotes... Or did you forget that?
    Hmmm... you mean the SDK kit that has been delayed as being out of Beta until the end of the Summer?
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    Please, leave the Engineering to engineers. Linux is more or less POSIX complaint. This is not an argument you can remotely win.
    More or less? WTF dude....A frozen burrito at a gas station is more or less authentic Mexican cuisine.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    Hmmm... you mean the SDK kit that has been delayed as being out of Beta until the end of the Summer?
    Delayed? When did they announce it would be available sooner than that and then announce it would be pushed back. I've got time...post it to prove it.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
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    #68  
    CISCO is interested in the iPhone for their IP based phone systems; CISCO was understandly concerned at the brand confusion since Apple is a strong brand among non-IT professions.

    As noted below, the law suite was settled and like many such suits to avoid the brand confusion that would have resulted. So, I am not sure what your point is?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    The name certainly was not unique..
    Phone trademark

    On January 10, 2007, Cisco Systems filed a lawsuit against Apple, standing that Apple's iPhone infringed on their iPhone trademark. The two companies were in negotiation to allow Apple the rights to use the name, although the meetings came to standstill when Cisco pushed for the two products to be interoperable. Cisco has alleged that Apple subsequently created a front company to try to acquire the rights another way. Following the public unveiling of the iPhone at the 2007 Macworld Expo, Cisco filed the lawsuit. Apple claimed that there will be no confusion between the two products, and that their iPhone is the first cell phone with such a name, Cisco's "iPhone" being a VoIP phone.[30] On February 21, 2007 Cisco and Apple announced an agreement under which both companies would be allowed to use the iPhone name worldwide.[31]
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    More or less? WTF dude....A frozen burrito at a gas station is more or less authentic Mexican cuisine.
    Do you know what POSIX is and who the certifying organization is? Have you ever worked with the POSIX test suite? The reason the literature says that is because most distributions of Linux based OSes don't pay the licensing fees to advertise them as POSIX compliment.
    Last edited by Clack; 07/05/2009 at 11:07 PM.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    CISCO is interested in the iPhone for their IP based phone systems; CISCO was understandly concerned at the brand confusion since Apple is a strong brand among non-IT professions.

    As noted below, the law suite was settled and like many such suits to avoid the brand confusion that would have resulted. So, I am not sure what your point is?
    My point is apple did not invent the Smart-phone. They just made it available to the masses. The brand confusion? They stole someones product name. If Apple didn't throw money at Cisco (like they did with creative technology), you'd be using a Macphone right now...

    When did they delay the SDK?
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    Delayed? When did they announce it would be available sooner than that and then announce it would be pushed back. I've got time...post it to prove it.
    The proof is in the Phone has been released and production quality SDK isn't available and one of the selling points that Sprint/Palm is capitalizing on based on the Apple/AT&T model.

    This is a bad place to be because it denies Sprint and Palm a revenue stream and the delay is making it difficult from them attract developers.

    You know, you advised someone else not to quit their day job... do you have one? Seriously, the Sprint/Pre has some serious business and engineering short comings that should have been avoidable since the core ideas represented by the Pre are suppose be evolutionary not revolutionary.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
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    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    Exactly what webOS promotes... Or did you forget that?
    I have yet to see a production SDK kit to be release so it is hard to evaluate. Java platforms are easy because they have been around for 10+ years.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    Please, leave the Engineering to engineers. Linux is more or less POSIX complaint. This is not an argument you can remotely win.
    Please leave the Pre Forums to the Pre enthusiast's. Your posts have been overtly negative about the device. There is nothing wrong with letting palm know your likes and dislikes....its stupid to be doing that here instead of there.

    Palm Support : Palm Pre Sprint - Community
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    The proof is in the Phone has been released and production quality SDK isn't available and one of the selling points that Sprint/Palm is capitalizing on based on the Apple/AT&T model.

    This is a bad place to be because it denies Sprint and Palm a revenue stream and the delay is making it difficult from them attract developers.

    You know, you advised someone else not to quit their day job... do you have one? Seriously, the Sprint/Pre has some serious business and engineering short comings that should have been avoidable since the core ideas represented by the Pre are suppose be evolutionary not revolutionary.
    I don't understand how that is proof. When did they announce the delay of the sdk? You say that as if there are "problems" or "issues" that have caused palm to delay the release of it. There have been no such announced delay of the SDK. I've wasted too much time with your unsubstantiated drivel. Clack meet my ignore list.
    Last edited by mrloserpunk; 07/05/2009 at 11:28 PM.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    Please leave the Pre Forums to the Pre enthusiast's. Your posts have been overtly negative about the device. There is nothing wrong with letting palm know your likes and dislikes....its stupid to being doing that here instead of here.

    Palm Support : Palm Pre Sprint - Community
    You are 1 of 3 people who are being negative of people being appropriately critical of the phone. I find the negative experiences as if not more valuable than the positive ones. All I have done is point out that people who share their negative experience have value. I also am less concerned about how someone articulates their praise and damnation of the device: only that they do.

    As for the particular remark you citing, Linux standards have nothing to do with the quality of the phone only the easy of making use of existing code. And as someone who has worked worked professionally with Linux since the 1.x kernel (that means I have 15 years of Linux/UNIX experience), I will attempt to educate those that will listen on the correct and precise use of such terms. For example, Linux is technically not an OS it is a kernel. WebOS is an OS that builds on the standard tools that that come from GNU which predates Linux. Mac OS X in contrast, is derived from FreeBSD and uses Objective C developed for the NeXT operating system back when C++ was still Bjarne Stroustrup's wet dream.

    Anyway, the Palm Pre does have some virtues but as someone interested in developing apps for it, I need to gauge what the Sprint/Palm support is and how the community both good and bad is responding. My primary criticism to date is no the OS itself but rather the hardware and the business decisions so far made by Sprint/Palm.
    Last edited by Clack; 07/05/2009 at 11:38 PM.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
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    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    I dont understand how that is proof. When did they announce the delay?
    I have stated the proof. However, please research the issue yourself if the proof I provided eludes you. There is plenty of information out there.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    There is no standard Linux API.
    Wow. You're just going to make things up, are you? Let's see. All of these are standard on pretty much any Linux system and seem to be on the Pre as well:

    • Standard Unix syscall API
    • POSIX Standard API
    • Linux kernel and module APIs
    • Standard C library API
    • Standard C++ library API
    • Standard Template Library API
    • Java Standard APIs

    Plus a ton of of other libraries and APIs that come standard on most Linux (and other) systems. So, yes, the Pre does use the standard Linux APIs and the Pre can and does run standard Linux binaries that you can download from the optware, Debian or other repositories.

    There is nothing at all new or special about the OS of the Pre. It's all been done many, many times before.

    I have been a software engineer specializing in Unix and Linux for many years. You have no idea what you are talking about.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by clipcarl View Post
    Wow. You're just going to make things up, are you? Let's see. All of these are standard on pretty much any Linux system and seem to be on the Pre as well:

    • Standard Unix syscall API
    • POSIX Standard API
    • Linux kernel and module APIs
    • Standard C library API
    • Standard C++ library API
    • Standard Template Library API
    • Java Standard APIs

    Plus a ton of of other libraries and APIs that come standard on most Linux systems. So, yes, the Pre does use the standard Linux APIs and the Pre can and does run standard Linux binaries that you can download from the optware or Debian repositories.

    There is nothing at all new or special about the OS of the Pre. It's all been done many, many times before.

    I have been a software engineer specializing in Unix and Linux for many years. You have no idea what you are talking about.
    I wouldn't go telling others they don't know what they're talking about with gems like that. Tell me, what other phone has as effective multitasking as the Pre? Sure, other phones have multitasking, but which is as easy? How about gestures? The only device I have that has gestures is my Zune 80gb, web browsers on PC's have them, but I sure as hell don't use them, don't know anyone else who does either. I could go on, but I'd rather go to sleep. I'm figuring this thread will be closed like all the other flamebait crap on here.
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    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    I wouldn't go telling others they don't know what they're talking about with gems like that. Tell me, what other phone has as effective multitasking as the Pre? Sure, other phones have multitasking, but which is as easy? How about gestures? The only device I have that has gestures is my Zune 80gb, web browsers on PC's have them, but I sure as hell don't use them, don't know anyone else who does either. I could go on, but I'd rather go to sleep. I'm figuring this thread will be closed like all the other flamebait crap on here.
    Android has robust multitasking and while the G1 is physically not asethically pleasing, HTC hasn't had the scope production build quilty issues with it either that the Pre has.

    The ability to multitask is function efficiently depends on the CPU having a MMU present and then secondarily the OS kernels ability to make use of it.

    Now, from the GUI point of view, the webOS card metaphor is a great one. And the stone like shape is certainly please as is it's smaller foot print.

    Both phones, overall, as much to recommend them as well as features that some dislike as well as outright defects.

    At the end of the day, the most important metric of useful software and systems is not so much it's feature set, but it's bug set.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    Please, leave the Engineering to engineers. Linux is more or less POSIX complaint. This is not an argument you can remotely win.
    Again, your ignorance is showing. I'm a network engineer. Job title for about 15 years.

    I'll repeat, there is no standard Linux API. I'm not a Linux programmer, but I've been working with it for years. I also know what an posterior is, and I recognize when someone is speaking not only from ignorance, but out of said posterior.
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