Did Palm Develop the Pre Calendar Backwards?

larnapp · 07/02/2009, 10:02 AM

I know there's nothing we can do about it now except ask Palm (and 3rd parties) for updates, features, and fixes... but I would have preferred if Palm paid LOTS more attention to creating a full-featured mobile calendar first and add Synergy compatibility/features later.

Am I alone?

Gompers · 07/02/2009, 10:04 AM

Yes.

djR3Z · 07/02/2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gompers

Yes.

ROFL

Yeah I'm gonna have to say you're alone man. I love it and have no problems with it at all, and I have probably the most complex Synergy calendar setup that you could have.

mikah912 · 07/02/2009, 10:09 AM

Alone? No.

But nobody's complaints here are. I've been using Google Calendar for some time, so the Pre is just an extension of that as far as I am concerned.

Thanks, Synergy.

Siteoner · 07/02/2009, 10:11 AM

this whole FB bug is getting annoying. What is wrog with the synergy with FB? The calendar thinks all of my FB events are 3 hours later than they are. And none of my new contacts on FB have been added to my Pre even after manually syncing

deanandbek · 07/02/2009, 10:20 AM

I have to agree. The calendar is lacking significantly from even the Treo line. But I know Palm is reading and will make it right soon. Or as you said, some 3rd party app will appear!

Badandy127 · 07/02/2009, 10:23 AM

search functionality....search functionality....search functionality

leftyman · 07/02/2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikah912

Alone? No.

But nobody's complaints here are. I've been using Google Calendar for some time, so the Pre is just an extension of that as far as I am concerned.

Thanks, Synergy.

same here, Totally dependent on Google calender, the syncing with the Pre is excellent.

jbg7474 · 07/02/2009, 10:30 AM

It's absolutely not backwards. When you develop software, first you build the infrastructure, and then you add in UI features. The things you think are missing (like search, some options, different views, a timezone field) are relatively easy to add once you have the infrastructure right. But if you work on those things first and don't have the right infrastructure, it's much more difficult to go back and fix it. Palm did it correctly. The bones of WebOS are fantastic. The flesh needs a bit more filling out, but this is much better than having a jiggly mess of flesh with few bones, ala Palm OS.

All I can say is that Palm must have been racing to get this device finished and in our hands. They've done an excellent job with what we've got, and it's a great platform for future improvements. I hope that we'll continue to get added functionality and performance improvements. 3rd party apps will help because it expands the available workforce.

larnapp · 07/02/2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbg7474

It's absolutely not backwards. When you develop software, first you build the infrastructure, and then you add in UI features. The things you think are missing (like search, some options, different views, a timezone field) are relatively easy to add once you have the infrastructure right. But if you work on those things first and don't have the right infrastructure, it's much more difficult to go back and fix it. Palm did it correctly. The bones of WebOS are fantastic. The flesh needs a bit more filling out, but this is much better than having a jiggly mess of flesh with few bones, ala Palm OS.

All I can say is that Palm must have been racing to get this device finished and in our hands. They've done an excellent job with what we've got, and it's a great platform for future improvements. I hope that we'll continue to get added functionality and performance improvements. 3rd party apps will help because it expands the available workforce.

An insightful and intelligent answer. Thanks!

I still consider the Pre a beta device (primarily because of the sorely lacking calendar and other PIM features) and I guess I can live with that because I knew what I was getting into and because of the superior web, email, and form factor. But I just hope it takes a shorter time for Palm to add Treo quality PIM apps and record search capability, than it took Apple to add Copy and Paste.

Audemars02 · 07/02/2009, 10:50 AM

I don't know if I would say they developed it backwards, but they just didn't keep the same functionality that we have come to love with PalmOS. I do not use Google Calender, but just the Palm profile Calendar as my default, and then add Facebook, Sporting News, etc to the calendar.

It's frustrating not to be able to see a picture of the calendar when changing Date of the entry (i.e. I know I want to move it to Saturday, but i may not know exactly what day that was), or not having Birthdays/Anniversarys from the Palm Contact in the calendar, TIMEZONES, and lots of other things. So, now we just have to hope that Palm adds this functionality or a 3rd party app comes along.

02589 · 07/02/2009, 11:18 AM

I agree with jbg. Also, both synergy and calendar are in their infant stages. They will both mature and raise the bar for all the competition. It would be ridiculous to expect the phone to be everything to everybody.

I bought the Palm Pre for it's potential, not it's features.

wicketr · 07/02/2009, 11:26 AM

Just give me a damn overview of the next 7 days like the Treo. I like 15 minute reminders that I have a meeting to get to, but i need to be more aware of what's on my plate greater than 15 minutes out. I don't want to manually look at every day all the time. The Treo's calendar was much better as far as actually helping you be productive.

gigaorg · 07/02/2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siteoner

this whole FB bug is getting annoying. What is wrog with the synergy with FB? The calendar thinks all of my FB events are 3 hours later than they are. And none of my new contacts on FB have been added to my Pre even after manually syncing

sounds dumb...but have you checked your time zone settings in FB and on your Pre? I would not be surprised if one of them was Pacific and the other Eastern

ADGrant · 07/02/2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbg7474

When you develop software, first you build the infrastructure, and then you add in UI features. The things you think are missing (like search, some options, different views, a timezone field)

Time zones are not just a UI feature. Adding them will require a change to the data model. Should really have been in version 1.0.

Task management is almost non-existant in WebOS (non-existant in Android and the iPhone). Tasks should integrate with the Calendar.

Jersey Girl · 07/02/2009, 12:19 PM

I do miss having an agenda on the home screen detailing my events and 'to do's for the day. As a work around I use Google Calendar's option to send me a daily agenda which I keep open in card view. For tasks, I use the Remember the Milk app which also sends daily reminders and can also be accessed via my Google Calendar. Yes, it was nice when I only had to use one program (Outlook) to sync everything for me, but I've accepted that's not going to happen and have found something else that works just as well for me.

jbg7474 · 07/02/2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADGrant

Time zones are not just a UI feature. Adding them will require a change to the data model. Should really have been in version 1.0.

Task management is almost non-existant in WebOS (non-existant in Android and the iPhone). Tasks should integrate with the Calendar.

Time zones are there, they're just not exposed to the user. I proved this to myself by traveling to a different time zone. Went from Eastern to Central. Appointments moved. Entered a new appointment for later in the week when I would be back in Eastern, and moved when I went back (I had to enter it an hour earlier). So time zones are there in the data record, but new appointments always get whatever time zone the user is in right now. I agree that the time zone should be exposed to the user, but this is a UI issue, not a data model one.

PoundSand · 07/02/2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADGrant

Time zones are not just a UI feature. Adding them will require a change to the data model. Should really have been in version 1.0.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbg7474

Time zones are there, they're just not exposed to the user. I proved this to myself by traveling to a different time zone. Went from Eastern to Central. Appointments moved. Entered a new appointment for later in the week when I would be back in Eastern, and moved when I went back (I had to enter it an hour earlier). So time zones are there in the data record, but new appointments always get whatever time zone the user is in right now. I agree that the time zone should be exposed to the user, but this is a UI issue, not a data model one.

there's no way to tell by the behavior whether the calendar's backend knows anything about timezones. it may or may not.

-just because it's not exposed doesn't mean it's there- it just means everything is defaulting to the time in whatever time zone you're in (when using network time). but it would be a trivial change- add the time zone field to the data model, and populate it with whatever time zone you're currently in (basically what it assumes right now anyways).

- just because it changes doesn't mean it's there. the phone itself knows what time zone you're in, and what time zone you were in. the calendar could be made aware of the *differences* in time zones and change the time appropriately, rather than keeping track of the 'real' time. i think this is less likely, but it wouldn't be the dumbest thing someone's programmed.

blazorboy · 07/02/2009, 01:19 PM

Reading all this about the calendar vs. say the classic Palm OS calendar makes me think that the Pre is a very poor replacement for the Treo as a business PIM/Phone. Being easily able to make time-zone sensitive entries and see day/week/month (even year) easily are essential to me.

I wonder how the phone book compares with the Palm OS.

As you can tell, I have not yet switched.

B B

sacherjj · 07/02/2009, 01:56 PM

This calendar has functionality that I didn't dream of with my Treo, because of the synergy. I have two Google Calendars. Because of the limitations of Google Sync, I make my primary calendar my work one. So every two hours, work appointments sync with my google calendar. (Most of my work appointments are reaccuring meetings, etc, were I won't schedule within a couple hours of occurance.)

My second Google calendar is personal. Shows up as a different color and the 1 way outlook sync means I don't have personal stuff on my work computer (always annoying with Palm Desktop.

Not, my wife also has two Google calendars. Her appointments are on my calendar in Pink.

The kicker is that we can now setup appointments in each others calendar. That is very cool.

The only thing I miss now is this functionality in more of a floating task style.

07/02/2009, 10:02 AM	#1 (permalink)
larnapp Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 181 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 61 Thanked 67 Times in 28 Posts	Did Palm Develop the Pre Calendar Backwards? I know there's nothing we can do about it now except ask Palm (and 3rd parties) for updates, features, and fixes... but I would have preferred if Palm paid LOTS more attention to creating a full-featured mobile calendar *first* and add Synergy compatibility/features later. Am I alone?
	Liked by

07/02/2009, 10:04 AM	#2 (permalink)
Gompers Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 128 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 15 Thanked 39 Times in 22 Posts	Yes.
	Liked by

07/02/2009, 10:09 AM	#4 (permalink)
mikah912 Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,348 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 387 Thanked 789 Times in 484 Posts	Alone? No. But nobody's complaints here are. I've been using Google Calendar for some time, so the Pre is just an extension of that as far as I am concerned. Thanks, Synergy.
	Liked by

07/02/2009, 10:11 AM	#5 (permalink)
Siteoner Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 139 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 51 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	this whole FB bug is getting annoying. What is wrog with the synergy with FB? The calendar thinks all of my FB events are 3 hours later than they are. And none of my new contacts on FB have been added to my Pre even after manually syncing
	Liked by

07/02/2009, 10:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
deanandbek Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 110 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 54 Times in 5 Posts	I have to agree. The calendar is lacking significantly from even the Treo line. But I know Palm is reading and will make it right soon. Or as you said, some 3rd party app will appear!
	Liked by

07/02/2009, 10:23 AM	#7 (permalink)
Badandy127 Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 176 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts	search functionality....search functionality....search functionality
	Liked by

07/02/2009, 10:30 AM	#9 (permalink)
jbg7474 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 3,858 Likes Received: 92 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 1,061 Times in 715 Posts	It's absolutely not backwards. When you develop software, first you build the infrastructure, and then you add in UI features. The things you think are missing (like search, some options, different views, a timezone field) are relatively easy to add once you have the infrastructure right. But if you work on those things first and don't have the right infrastructure, it's much more difficult to go back and fix it. Palm did it correctly. The bones of WebOS are fantastic. The flesh needs a bit more filling out, but this is much better than having a jiggly mess of flesh with few bones, ala Palm OS. All I can say is that Palm must have been racing to get this device finished and in our hands. They've done an excellent job with what we've got, and it's a great platform for future improvements. I hope that we'll continue to get added functionality and performance improvements. 3rd party apps will help because it expands the available workforce. __________________ Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
	Liked by Thanked by larnapp, napilopez

07/02/2009, 10:50 AM	#11 (permalink)
Audemars02 Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,487 Likes Received: 13 Thanks: 252 Thanked 405 Times in 238 Posts	I don't know if I would say they developed it backwards, but they just didn't keep the same functionality that we have come to love with PalmOS. I do not use Google Calender, but just the Palm profile Calendar as my default, and then add Facebook, Sporting News, etc to the calendar. It's frustrating not to be able to see a picture of the calendar when changing Date of the entry (i.e. I know I want to move it to Saturday, but i may not know exactly what day that was), or not having Birthdays/Anniversarys from the Palm Contact in the calendar, TIMEZONES, and lots of other things. So, now we just have to hope that Palm adds this functionality or a 3rd party app comes along.
	Liked by

07/02/2009, 11:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
02589 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 248 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 23 Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts	I agree with jbg. Also, both synergy and calendar are in their infant stages. They will both mature and raise the bar for all the competition. It would be ridiculous to expect the phone to be everything to everybody. I bought the Palm Pre for it's potential, not it's features.
	Liked by

07/02/2009, 11:26 AM	#13 (permalink)
wicketr Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 234 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 17 Thanked 90 Times in 24 Posts	Just give me a damn overview of the next 7 days like the Treo. I like 15 minute reminders that I have a meeting to get to, but i need to be more aware of what's on my plate greater than 15 minutes out. I don't want to manually look at every day all the time. The Treo's calendar was much better as far as actually helping you be productive.
	Liked by

07/02/2009, 12:19 PM	#16 (permalink)
Jersey Girl Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Jersey Posts: 34 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 12 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I do miss having an agenda on the home screen detailing my events and 'to do's for the day. As a work around I use Google Calendar's option to send me a daily agenda which I keep open in card view. For tasks, I use the Remember the Milk app which also sends daily reminders and can also be accessed via my Google Calendar. Yes, it was nice when I only had to use one program (Outlook) to sync everything for me, but I've accepted that's not going to happen and have found something else that works just as well for me.
	Liked by Thanked By: wicketr

07/02/2009, 01:19 PM	#19 (permalink)
blazorboy Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cambridge Our Fair City MA Posts: 294 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Reading all this about the calendar vs. say the classic Palm OS calendar makes me think that the Pre is a very poor replacement for the Treo as a business PIM/Phone. Being easily able to make time-zone sensitive entries and see day/week/month (even year) easily are essential to me. I wonder how the phone book compares with the Palm OS. As you can tell, I have not yet switched. B B
	Liked by

07/02/2009, 01:56 PM	#20 (permalink)
sacherjj Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,686 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 41 Thanked 365 Times in 215 Posts	This calendar has functionality that I didn't dream of with my Treo, because of the synergy. I have two Google Calendars. Because of the limitations of Google Sync, I make my primary calendar my work one. So every two hours, work appointments sync with my google calendar. (Most of my work appointments are reaccuring meetings, etc, were I won't schedule within a couple hours of occurance.) My second Google calendar is personal. Shows up as a different color and the 1 way outlook sync means I don't have personal stuff on my work computer (always annoying with Palm Desktop. Not, my wife also has two Google calendars. Her appointments are on my calendar in Pink. The kicker is that we can now setup appointments in each others calendar. That is very cool. The only thing I miss now is this functionality in more of a floating task style.
	Liked by

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