Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 80
  1. #41  
    Hey, Xyg. Wow, just noticed you joined the board last month and you already have 491 posts. Posting on PreCentral seems to be your full-time job! (Is it?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    I think you should take a step back and marvel that a company the size of Palm, with their cashflow issues amongst others, were able to bring a product as polished as the Pre is from prototype to execution in 15 months.

    The launch of this phone has gone much better than another high profile launch in recent memory. At it's core, the phone is plenty functional, and I think that we'll see the platform mature rapidly.

    So worry not, friend. This thing is going to be a hit.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmaine View Post
    Success in reviews or in your opinion doesn't necessarily translate to success on their financial statements. Get a reality check and take a finance class. Maybe I'm just wasting my time arguing with kids in school who bought a Pre with their pocket money.
    You're wasting time arguing utter nonsense, for sure. I believe selling out every unit of something you sell for the entirety of its existence would be objectively called a success in any finance class, retail class, or even a logic class.

    Also, spot on with the guess about my life and where my money to buy the Pre comes from. Real accurate on that one.

    Also, this.

    Do you know what the situation was for Palm which led up to internal restructuring and eventually launching the Pre? It was failing, and still is. Without Elevation Partner's $350 mil investment, Palm would have filed ch.11 months ago. Get it through your skull: they need the Pre to be VERY successful, not moderately or barely successful...or they're history. And by successful, I don't mean selling just 150,000 units. 150,000 units is no more than $150 mil in revenues (less because I doubt each Palm Pre costs $1000). Palm has had a net loss of $640 million so far this fiscal year. Can you do the math and figure out how much short they are on making a profit? Add to that, they owe $391 million to their debtors and millions more to the new company that is manufacturing the Pre for them. Heck you probably didn't even know this fact - that Palm doesn't manufacture their own hardware. It's outsourced to companies in Brazil, Taiwan and China.
    Wow, thanks for the education, Professor. These figures have been bandied about on this forum and on the main site for months now, but stating the obvious seems to be an accomplishment for you, so I'll let you run with that.

    A few things to consider:

    1) You don't know the actual units sold as of right now. That 150,000 figure was bandied about at LAUNCH along with plenty of other guesses. It's been over two weeks since then, and they continue to sell, so the very foundation of your argument is shaky.
    2) Palm will...gasp....continue to sell the device. No, really! This seems obvious to me, but you obviously haven't considered it, so I'll be happy to hold your hand as you take this in.
    3) Not only is it selling briskly on Sprint, but the two biggest American carriers (AT&T and Verizon) have already committed to selling Palm WebOS devices.

    Can YOU do the math and understand how many additional revenue streams besides the boffo Sprint sales they are going to enjoy?

    I love how a failing company's stock valuation septuples in six months as their flagship product sells out everywhere. Lemme operate a failing business under those conditions, please, I beg you.
  3. #43  
    All this bandying about has gotten us into quite a dither! Oh my!
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by prefanatic View Post
    And the Storm was an epic fail
    Not to pick on you, but yeesh, I'm getting tired of all these Internet memes (which is itself one). Saying something is a "fail" has taken over for the phrase, this or that "for the win." Which is still out there, of course. And then there's "powned," and "ZOMG". And "pron". Not to mention the old standby of throwing "lol" after or in the middle of a sentence as if it somehow emphasizes some point.

    I fear for the English language. I really do.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  5. #45  
    I'm amazed at how worked up anti-fan boys are around here. IT'S JUST A PHONE!!! In my opinion, its the best phone/plan available. I'll keep it until I find a better phone - either the Iphone 6g, Android 3, Pre2, or whatever.

    If you like the iphone or Android phone better - fine. Go buy one and quit moaning about it here. Precentral should be a place for Pre enthusiests to talk about their phones, features, problems, apps, experiences, etc. It shouldn't be the forum to scream, "MY PHONE IS BETTER THAN YOURS" "NO IT ISN't, YOUR PHONE SUCKS!!"

    I'm not a Palm General leading a charge to destroy all competing phones. Iphones are cool. The Pre is awesome! So are Android phones. So are WinMo - uh, nevermind.

    Life's short. Just have fun with your cool new phone - whichever it may be. For now, for me, the Pre is the best phone ever.
  6. #46  
    Bandy FTW LOL
  7.    #47  
    Its amazing. its like people really don't want to hear anything bad about the pre or what the future could be if Palm doesn't make wise decisions. First off, this a discussion board, not the Palm Pre is the new Jesus phone board. All hail Pre!!! In reality Palm needs to make wise decisions, not just try to keep pace with the competition but out pace it. That's what winners do. We aren't Palm or Sprint CEO's. We don't make the decisions. We are consumers and fans watching in the side lines and hoping for the best, like a sports fan. Except, I'm not the type of fan that acts blind. There plenty of ways Palm could fail or deliver a knockout punch during the next year. This is just a discussion of what we hope to see so that Palm does succeed.

    So some of you fan boys need to relax.
  8. #48  
    Yes Palm is betting the kitchen sink on the Pre and Web OS. It also looks like the analysts think they are doing quite well.

    RBC Capital analyst Mike Abramsky thinks Sprint (S) has sold 150,000 units to date, above his previous 120,000 forecast. He says inventories of the phone remain low, with most Sprint stores sold out. He now thinks the company will sell 4.1 million units in FY 2010, and 6.5 million in FY 2011, an upward revision from his old forecast of 3.2 million this year and 4.6 million next year.

    So if we are to go by speculators forecasts like jjmaine has done is his financial lesson, then I think the outlook from this guy looks pretty good for Palm. That doesn't even count the Pixie or whatever it is called coming out on AT&T.

    Of course no one here knows the true financials of Palm or what their business plan is besides selling as many units as possible. I'm sure it does not include selling 10 million Pres by the end of the year. You don't have to sell as many as Apple to still be successful.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You're wasting time arguing utter nonsense, for sure. I believe selling out every unit of something you sell for the entirety of its existence would be objectively called a success in any finance class, retail class, or even a logic class.

    Also, spot on with the guess about my life and where my money to buy the Pre comes from. Real accurate on that one.

    Also, this.
    It's amazing. I'm not even arguing against Palm. I'm pointing out facts on what it needs to do to be successful. I own Palm devices so why would I want to see it fail?

    Replying to your points: You say selling every unit of anything will guarantee success. This is where you shown intellectual ineptitude. No it doesn't. If its operating costs or liabilities are higher than its profitability, it won't survive. Palm has invested huge amounts into R&D (12% of its sales revenue) and agreements. These are all sunk costs and a few hundred thousand phones won't cover that, let alone turn a profit. There's a lot more to running a successful business than cheering about a phone being sold out in the market because Palm didn't have the cash in hand to pay their manufacturer for enough handsets upfront.

    Secondly why are you linking a stock chart that only shows that Palm's stock price is still lower than what it was 5 years ago?

    Wow, thanks for the education, Professor. These figures have been bandied about on this forum and on the main site for months now, but stating the obvious seems to be an accomplishment for you, so I'll let you run with that.

    A few things to consider:

    1) You don't know the actual units sold as of right now. That 150,000 figure was bandied about at LAUNCH along with plenty of other guesses. It's been over two weeks since then, and they continue to sell, so the very foundation of your argument is shaky.
    2) Palm will...gasp....continue to sell the device. No, really! This seems obvious to me, but you obviously haven't considered it, so I'll be happy to hold your hand as you take this in.
    3) Not only is it selling briskly on Sprint, but the two biggest American carriers (AT&T and Verizon) have already committed to selling Palm WebOS devices.

    Can YOU do the math and understand how many additional revenue streams besides the boffo Sprint sales they are going to enjoy?

    I love how a failing company's stock valuation septuples in six months as their flagship product sells out everywhere. Lemme operate a failing business under those conditions, please, I beg you.
    1) And your argument is worse. On one hand you say they are sold out and on the other that it must have sold way way more than 150,000. They don't have the supply to meet current demand. That doesn't however mean that they've actually SOLD more.
    2) Not even worth a response. I don't know why you mention the obvious. I hope they sell more too.
    3) You're drooling about a scenario at least 7 months away. Sprint's exclusivity contract won't expire until 2010 so that's the earliest AT&T and Verizon can even consider selling the Pre. "Don't count your chickens before they hatch" - ever hear that one?

    Additional revenue streams? According to Palm's latest 10-Q, their smartphone revenue fell 72% compared with the same period last year. Don't try pulling nonsense rhetoric with me. If you're interested in how they're doing and what their plans for the Pre business are, sit in on their Q4 conference call tomorrow 6/25.

    And yes, please operate a business or make investment decisions by analyzing only 6 months of data (particularly data showing a tad bit of growth after the market had gone into recession). I debate facts, not fantasies so when you have something more intelligent to argue with, let me know.
    Last edited by jmaine; 06/24/2009 at 09:55 PM.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkoCommie View Post
    Exactly. Saying "Oh, but it's new. It took the iPhone x months to get x feature! It took x months for the Apple App Store to get x apps!" is like saying that the piece of crap car you just bought is new, and after all, it took Ford x years to start putting seat belts in their cars. Nobody gives a damn. You buy a car today, it better have seat belts.

    Things like visual voicemail on a smartphone, proper email formatting, exchange server support for all configurations, etc., are a pre-requisite. I like my Pre, but come on, Palm, get with the program!
    Quote Originally Posted by imasu49 View Post
    This is one of the worst attempts at logic I've seen in awhile (well OK, in this thread). The tremendous irony in all this is that the iPhone itself disproved your theory about a phone having to be accountable for every feature on the market at the devices launch. They decide which features to add and on what timeframe exactly like the Palm Pre is doing currently and they're doing just fine. There's no reason Palm can't enjoy relatively similar success (even if on a smaller scale).
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You're wasting time arguing utter nonsense, for sure. I believe selling out every unit of something you sell for the entirety of its existence would be objectively called a success in any finance class, retail class, or even a logic class.

    Also, spot on with the guess about my life and where my money to buy the Pre comes from. Real accurate on that one.

    Also, this.



    Wow, thanks for the education, Professor. These figures have been bandied about on this forum and on the main site for months now, but stating the obvious seems to be an accomplishment for you, so I'll let you run with that.

    A few things to consider:

    1) You don't know the actual units sold as of right now. That 150,000 figure was bandied about at LAUNCH along with plenty of other guesses. It's been over two weeks since then, and they continue to sell, so the very foundation of your argument is shaky.
    2) Palm will...gasp....continue to sell the device. No, really! This seems obvious to me, but you obviously haven't considered it, so I'll be happy to hold your hand as you take this in.
    3) Not only is it selling briskly on Sprint, but the two biggest American carriers (AT&T and Verizon) have already committed to selling Palm WebOS devices.

    Can YOU do the math and understand how many additional revenue streams besides the boffo Sprint sales they are going to enjoy?

    I love how a failing company's stock valuation septuples in six months as their flagship product sells out everywhere. Lemme operate a failing business under those conditions, please, I beg you.
    I am most definitely not a financial guy, and I certainly don't know enough about how things will unfold to declare the Pre a success or not, but there seems to be a few issues conflated here...

    1. Critical success: The critics (and Pre fanboys :-P ) love the phone, warts and all.
    2. Popular success: Do the run-of-the-mill consumers want it?
    3. Long-term, Palm's financial success/survival: Will they make enough money from this phone to survive or even thrive?


    For the first, mostly, from what I've read, the Pre seems a critical success.

    For the second, well, with the throttled supply (whatever the cause), we just can't know for sure how big the demand is. Right now, we can only say that, demand seems to outstrip supply...

    For the third, just because their stock's gone up and they can't keep the phones on the shelves doesn't mean that Palm's got a surefire, company-saving revenue source with the Pre...at least as I understand it...Increase in stock price isn't revenue, right? And if they go through more in costs and expenses than they can make in profit from the limited numbers flying off the shelves, they still lose money...which--from all the noise about them being on the razor's edge cash-wise--can't be good.

    So it seems to me that this third issue of whether this whole Pre/WebOS thing is enough of a financial success for Palm to survive comes down revenue in versus costs out...

    Both the first two issues bode well for that third, but I don't think they guarantee it.

    All arguing aside, of course, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed.

    For the second
    Last edited by Shadowhawk; 06/24/2009 at 10:02 PM.
  11. #51  
    Woot! man nothing like dueling it out with a few fanboys! Im with most of you and have said this from the begining, i "Like" the pre, webos will be great "If" they can fix and enhance the missing "Basic" features even the jitterbug has for gods sake!!! Get the SDK out!!! And they better have some improved engineering on the next device because this hardware will not cut it when its released to the other carriers. IMO
  12. #52  
    The issue here is Palm has a lot to do in order to just catch up to other current offerings. Spin it however you want but it is an uphill battle for Palm because they are already late to the party and their current device (Pre) is nice but needs some work.

    1. SDK is not out. We don't know how open it will be. Developers could be limited to only the equivalent of web apps with no core access. Not only that the SDK isn't expected until the end of summer.

    2. The OS needs lots of attention. It bogs down in places it should not, many of the OS key programs need some pretty heft updates and optimizations. I'm not talking about new features, many of the programs right now bog down and chug in places they should not.

    3. Not only that but the OS is also light on features, settings and customizations. Many of the missing items are commonly found in other OS's including Palm's previous offerings. The included OS programs are also missing a lot of features.

    So while the Pre offers some new ideas like cards and multi-tasking it also gives up a fair bit in other areas and just about every included OS program needs some hefty updates to get things where they really should be.

    Can they pull it off? Ultimately WebOS should be a huge success I'm not sure how early adopters will ultimately feel in 6 months. Its going to depend entirely if Palm has enough cash to survive and crank out updates, get the SDK in developers hands and not neuter development of applications.

    For all the crap people give Apple about launching a device with missing features they are strangely quiet about Palm doing the exact same thing. The big difference is the Pre's other functions are not nearly as polished.

    I love the Pre and enjoy the OS but realize it needs tons of work. Work that it may or may not get depending on how many devices Palm and Sprint can sell and with obvious production issues / quality control issues I'm not sure they can crank out enough units fast enough.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmaine View Post
    It's amazing. I'm not even arguing against Palm. I'm pointing out facts on what it needs to do to be successful. I own Palm devices so why would I want to see it fail?

    Replying to your points: You say selling every unit of anything will guarantee success. This is where you shown intellectual ineptitude. No it doesn't.
    A key to "replying to my points": Understanding them.

    I didn't say that selling every unit of anything would "guarantee" success. I said it IS a success. You keep whining about Palm's precarious financials due to years of mismanagement. Last time I checked, this is a Pre board, and the subject of this thread is a device, not a company.

    This is where you show reading ineptitude.

    If its operating costs or liabilities are higher than its profitability, it won't survive. Palm has invested huge amounts into R&D (12% of its sales revenue) and agreements. These are all sunk costs and a few hundred thousand phones won't cover that, let alone turn a profit. There's a lot more to running a successful business than cheering about a phone being sold out in the market because Palm didn't have the cash in hand to pay their manufacturer for enough handsets upfront.
    And all of that has little to do with the Pre or it being a success. Nobody said they'd "turned a profit," since profit can be relative to many different things (e.g. quarterly, year-over-year). Again, you're scoring some great points against an imaginary opponent.

    Secondly why are you linking a stock chart that only shows that Palm's stock price is still lower than what it was 5 years ago?
    Because it shows that the market (i.e. people with more financial acumen than you) has a pretty good impression of what Palm has done since the announcement and launch of the Pre. You know...the present?

    1) And your argument is worse. On one hand you say they are sold out and on the other that it must have sold way way more than 150,000. They don't have the supply to meet current demand. That doesn't however mean that they've actually SOLD more.
    The 150,000 figure is a guess. But they have sold more than whatever was there on launch day. Anecdotal evidence from this forum alone proves that.

    3) You're drooling about a scenario at least 7 months away. Sprint's exclusivity contract won't expire until 2010 so that's the earliest AT&T and Verizon can even consider selling the Pre. "Don't count your chickens before they hatch" - ever hear that one?
    For AT&T and Verizon to announce these "7 months away" scenarios indicates a vote of confidence in Palm's viability, and also a desire to get a piece of their buzz right now. Apparently, they're a little more confident in their continued existence and the success of the Pre/WebOS than you are.

    Additional revenue streams? According to Palm's latest 10-Q, their smartphone revenue fell 72% compared with the same period last year. Don't try pulling nonsense rhetoric with me. If you're interested in how they're doing and what their plans for the Pre business are, sit in on their Q4 conference call tomorrow 6/25.
    You need a call to tell you that if they can sell a GSM WebOS on AT&T and another Pre-esque device on Verizon, those will be additional revenue streams? Wow...reading comprehension may be the least of your problems.

    And yes, please operate a business or make investment decisions by analyzing only 6 months of data. I debate facts, not fantasies so when you have something more intelligent to argue with, let me know.
    Lolololololol. Ooh, burn.
  14. #54  


    Sorry. I couldn't resist.

    And I have to agree with the OP to a certain extent. Palm must support the Pre quickly and publicly. And it really doesn't matter to the average person that this is a 1st generation device. They expect it to have the features of any other device currently on the market. And right now it doesn't.
  15. urkel's Avatar
    Posts
    944 Posts
    Global Posts
    946 Global Posts
    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    A key to "replying to my points": Understanding them.
    ...
    This is where you show reading ineptitude.
    ...
    Wow...reading comprehension may be the least of your problems.
    ...
    Lolololololol. Ooh, burn.
    Whats with the attitude? The people you're arguing with are Pre owners who believe enough in the platform that they are willing to invest $300, new plans and a 2yr contract, so why all the hostility? People aren't rooting for failure, they're discussing (on a discussion board) what they think is necessary for success.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by prefanatic View Post
    I hope it is hit. I plan on getting the phone. But you think you should realize the your average joe isnt gonna sit there and marvel about palm's history lol. And the Storm was an epic fail. Everyone i know who HAD the phone. hated it


    yea this could help.

    As of Q1 2009, the Storm was RIM's second bestselling handset in the US and it was ranked #3 among all smartphones sold in this country. Right behind the iPhone 3G.

    I am not privy to RIM's internal financial performance reports on the Storm, but concluding the handset was an "epic fail" may not be entirely correct.

    Lawrence
  17. jade408's Avatar
    Posts
    64 Posts
    Global Posts
    66 Global Posts
    #57  
    Well my 2 cents. Palm hit a triple. Not a homerun but a successful go. Elevation wouldn't have wasted there money if theydidnt believe they could cash out. Investor timeline us5 years or less. Obviously Palm has at least 24 months to be successful. Personal history I got a touch to evaluate the iPhone. I used windows ce at the very beginning cuz I thought palm's os was lame and continue that opinion till I got a centro when it came out. I was ready to leave sprint foe a carrier with better phones when contract was up but the Pre announcement in Jan kept me in sprint when my contract was up in march. On the whole the pre is a great phone and people will agree when they get their hands on it. Palm is after blackberry users on they are on the right path. Once I got my contacts, calendars, and emails synced up I saw the power of synergy. And the well implemented multitasking is great. Palm made some really smart decisions here and I think they are on the right path. Those two features are enough for me to be willing to be patient because they are such timesavers. I imagine others feel the same way.
  18. #58  
    I've had mine for 16 days and for the first 14, unless I made a point of shoving the phone in people's faces, no one seemed to notice. Suddenly, in the past two days, I've had three people at work ask me, "Hey, is that a Pre? Do you love it? I'm thinking of getting one." Of course, I give them the multitasking/notices dog-and-pony show and they've been impressed, though this afternoon, it took the never-before-seen opportunity to start ringing and buzzing with no cards open and no calls coming in. I had to shut it off to stop it. Whoops!
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkoCommie View Post
    Exactly. Saying "Oh, but it's new. It took the iPhone x months to get x feature! It took x months for the Apple App Store to get x apps!" is like saying that the piece of crap car you just bought is new, and after all, it took Ford x years to start putting seat belts in their cars. Nobody gives a damn. You buy a car today, it better have seat belts.
    ...
    Bad analogy. Ford puts the seatbelts in cars on their own. Apps are mostly third party.

    A better analogy would be "look at the brand new model car that's just been released. Will they soon have aftermarket accessories for it?"
    Last edited by hparsons; 06/25/2009 at 12:35 AM.
  20. imasu49's Avatar
    Posts
    16 Posts
    Global Posts
    18 Global Posts
    #60  
    OK, I admit that i'm too lazy to quote multiple individual responses so i'll just throw some more thoughts out there:

    Exchange policies, email formatting and visual voicemail are great features, but i'd hardly call them prerequisites especially in the context of how the general public will perceive this device (in a somehow more judgemental light than smartphone enthusiasts).

    There's an implied risk to being an early adopter. I suspect that's the basis for the "give it time" people whereas the "gloom and doom" folks may have arrived prematurely to the party and they certainly do have a valid point. No one denies that Palm was on the ropes and just about headed to the mat. The reality of the situation as is typically the case probably lies somewhere between the two extremes.

    I don't think the picture is as simple a sink/swim proposition for Palm as is being portrayed, but the conference call tomorrow should indeed be very telling. I suspect they will have plenty of options going forward for their continued operations. Q1 performance is probably not a very good indicator for obvious reasons.

    This is to no on in particular, just something that irks me:

    If you feel the argument is getting away from you and you're left with no valid points to discuss or rebutt, by all means resort to sweeping generalizations or invective. Or maybe even if you can't find the words yourself, resort to "witty" quotes. This is especially effective for defusing anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest. Best of all, it works pretty much uniformly regardless of the validity of their arguments.


    I'd like to see you pull a fanboy quote off of one of my posts (without taking something out of context). Should be easy enough, fanboys tend to leave a rather massive trail of lovefest posts.
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions