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  1. #21  
    Part of this post is that when people say well it took the iphone a year to get an app store or crap about the pre doesnt have video recording. They make excuses like the general public cares or will be understanding and give Palm a chance. The situation is not really like that.
    Exactly. Saying "Oh, but it's new. It took the iPhone x months to get x feature! It took x months for the Apple App Store to get x apps!" is like saying that the piece of crap car you just bought is new, and after all, it took Ford x years to start putting seat belts in their cars. Nobody gives a damn. You buy a car today, it better have seat belts.

    Things like visual voicemail on a smartphone, proper email formatting, exchange server support for all configurations, etc., are a pre-requisite. I like my Pre, but come on, Palm, get with the program!
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by prefanatic View Post
    yes but Web OS needs to be polished and needs are larger user base. The only phone that palm has out right now to do that is the Pre.
    Web OS has been out just over 2 weeks. Were they supposed to develop and release 4 or 5 phones at the same time on different networks? At&T and Verizon will both be getting Web OS phones in the near future. I think Palm is moving at the right pace for a cash strapped company and I think Web OS performs as good as the iphone or any Android phone. I'd say BB is still the most stable and accepted UI out there. They all need polishing. People have already started complaining about the bugginess of the iphone 3.0. It's just the nature of technology and wanting it to do more than just make a phone call.
  3. #23  
    Its funny to read this and act like we can actually make decision for Palm. Most of us here never even had a Palm product until the Pre. I remember just a few months ago when Palm was not even mentioned in the same galaxy as the iPhone, Android, BB, or even other WM phones.

    Now it is up to the 2nd or 3rd place of any phone out. That is a huge jump for Palm. They have sold over 100,000 phones in the first few weeks. That is also huge for Palm. Compared to Apple, it is a drop in the bucket, but it is just the beggining. Be patient my friends... good things come to thoughs who wait.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by osidak View Post
    I have - looked at 3 different stores and every Pre I touched had some type of issue with it. Plus look at these boards and see how many people are having issues - How many people have swapped their phones numerous times.

    Doesn't matter at all if the browsing is the best ever if the phone does not perform as it should or has a resonable life span.

    Like I said I want the thing to be a hit. So far it is turning in a miss
    You've played with 3 DISPLAY phones that are being poked, prodded, and often times intentionally mistreated in a retail store and that, in combination with your reading about oh, 20 people ON THE INTERNET claiming to have returned their phones multiple times , leads you to call a device that has pretty much sold out (somewhere between 150k and 200k units sold) everywhere a polished turd?

    It's a miss? Most reviews of the phone have been overwhelmingly positive. I would guess that most of the over 100k people that own it like it. Of course the phone has issues, all devices, especially new ones, have issues. But keep in mind that people on the internet like to complain. Pointing to any forum on the net as strong evidence of something being either a hit or a miss is pretty dubious. A few months from now, the Pre will be available on multiple networks and almost certainly will keep selling extremely well. Palm has work to do, but the Pre is a very good start.
  5. imasu49's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkoCommie View Post
    Exactly. Saying "Oh, but it's new. It took the iPhone x months to get x feature! It took x months for the Apple App Store to get x apps!" is like saying that the piece of crap car you just bought is new, and after all, it took Ford x years to start putting seat belts in their cars. Nobody gives a damn. You buy a car today, it better have seat belts.

    Things like visual voicemail on a smartphone, proper email formatting, exchange server support for all configurations, etc., are a pre-requisite. I like my Pre, but come on, Palm, get with the program!
    This is one of the worst attempts at logic I've seen in awhile (well OK, in this thread). The tremendous irony in all this is that the iPhone itself disproved your theory about a phone having to be accountable for every feature on the market at the devices launch. They decide which features to add and on what timeframe exactly like the Palm Pre is doing currently and they're doing just fine. There's no reason Palm can't enjoy relatively similar success (even if on a smaller scale).
  6. #26  
    Palm: roll out some new apps so it's not July 4th with 30 apps (there are 1000 devs with the private SDK, don't tell me >30 aren't ready), and roll out biweekly firmware updates for the next few months. And figure out a way to pay for apps so devs won't wait for that to happen. Everyone will shut up and everyone will be happy
  7. #27  
    so where are you getting your figures on units sold? How many treo 800's did palm sell?
    -Treo 650 | 700wx | Centro | 800w | Treo Pro
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by imasu49 View Post
    This is one of the worst attempts at logic I've seen in awhile (well OK, in this thread). The tremendous irony in all this is that the iPhone itself disproved your theory about a phone having to be accountable for every feature on the market at the devices launch. They decide which features to add and on what timeframe exactly like the Palm Pre is doing currently and they're doing just fine. There's no reason Palm can't enjoy relatively similar success (even if on a smaller scale).
    EXACTLY. If I could thank you 47 times, I would.

    There's nothing wrong with bringing issues to Palm's attention or what have you, but please stop extrapolating your dissatisfaction into some sort of imaginary failure for the Pre as a "miss" or a "polished turd." Sprint sells them as quickly as they go into stores, the reviews have been almost entirely great, and Apple is in the unique position of having ITS new products compared to the Pre instead of everyone else trailing behind the iPhone.

    If Palm could wave a wand and solve every issue raised on this forum, how many additional Pre phones would they sell right now? None. Every one that someone here or elsewhere returns is refurbished and bought by someone else. That doesn't mean that they have no incentive to improve the phone. They most certainly do. But they are working on said issues feverishly. They're getting everything done as fast as they can just as they released the phone as fast as they could.

    And all of that equals a success. Period. A huge one. That means the Pre stacks up against the iPhone of 2009 and its tens of thousands of apps just fine, much less the 2007 one. The Pre stacks well against every phone on the market...for now. It's up to Palm to make sure it stays that way.
  9. bender29's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by imasu49 View Post
    This is one of the worst attempts at logic I've seen in awhile (well OK, in this thread). The tremendous irony in all this is that the iPhone itself disproved your theory about a phone having to be accountable for every feature on the market at the devices launch. They decide which features to add and on what timeframe exactly like the Palm Pre is doing currently and they're doing just fine. There's no reason Palm can't enjoy relatively similar success (even if on a smaller scale).
    "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."

    If you're going to slam somebody for bad logic, it's only fair to point out how disingenuous it is to expect Palm to behave like Apple and expect similar success. Palm is no Apple.
  10. #30  
    i agree with all except for the "So when the Pre 2 launches next year"

    PALM, please, do NOT be another apple company by screwing over your customers by releasing another phone in about a year. upgrade the hell out of this pre.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by imasu49 View Post
    This is one of the worst attempts at logic I've seen in awhile (well OK, in this thread). The tremendous irony in all this is that the iPhone itself disproved your theory about a phone having to be accountable for every feature on the market at the devices launch. They decide which features to add and on what timeframe exactly like the Palm Pre is doing currently and they're doing just fine. There's no reason Palm can't enjoy relatively similar success (even if on a smaller scale).
    The OP and the guy you quoted are right. You and many others on this forum that can most politely be described as die-hard Pre fans need a reality check.

    Unlike Apple, RIM, Nokia etc, Palm does NOT have the luxury of time. While you guys sit here fantasizing about Pre software updates a year from now, and newer versions of the Pre, you fail to realize that Palm is a company with very limited capital and is struggling to survive. The Palm Pre, yes the current one, is supposed to be the company's salvation. Without its success, there will be no Pre 2 or Pre 3. RIM and Nokia can afford to let the Storm/N97 fail, and add newer product lines such as the Bold. Apple can afford to release a limited set of upgrades to its already successful product over time. Palm unfortunately cannot - it's playing a huge catchup game in the smartphone market and the Pre is it's last hope.
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmaine View Post
    The OP and the guy you quoted are right. You and many others on this forum that can most politely be described as die-hard Pre fans need a reality check.

    Unlike Apple, RIM, Nokia etc, Palm does NOT have the luxury of time. While you guys sit here fantasizing about Pre software updates a year from now, and newer versions of the Pre, you fail to realize that Palm is a company with very limited capital and is struggling to survive. The Palm Pre, yes the current one, is supposed to be the company's salvation. Without its success, there will be no Pre 2 or Pre 3. RIM and Nokia can afford to let the Storm/N97 fail, and add newer product lines such as the Bold. Apple can afford to release a limited set of upgrades to its already successful product over time. Palm unfortunately cannot - it's playing a huge catchup game in the smartphone market and the Pre is it's last hope.
    x2

    its like they dont understand. They can preach about how palm should have the same time the iphone had or their turnaround is impressive. it doesnt matter to the average joe because there are other options and more fast approaching. Palm is enjoying good press and good opinion RIGHT NOW. apparently you guys have never seen a product fall off after launch. I'm not saying Palm is doing bad right now. They just really need to play their cards right. More so then anyone else as they are late in the game and may not be the most financially stable. Just because the tech/geek/diehard fans like the phone wont make it succeed to the level it should. The Instinct was a highly touted phone. Millions still left Sprint after launch. Every single person i know in real life hates the phone and i have met over 10 people that have had it and went back to blackberry or switched carriers. I want to Pre to succeed just a much as anyone here. I want it get the updates it needs and the features it should have. I want them to be aggressive and continue to innovate but can you guys please not act like apple fanboys and act like palm can do no evil.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmaine View Post
    The OP and the guy you quoted are right. You and many others on this forum that can most politely be described as die-hard Pre fans need a reality check.

    Unlike Apple, RIM, Nokia etc, Palm does NOT have the luxury of time. While you guys sit here fantasizing about Pre software updates a year from now, and newer versions of the Pre, you fail to realize that Palm is a company with very limited capital and is struggling to survive. The Palm Pre, yes the current one, is supposed to be the company's salvation. Without its success, there will be no Pre 2 or Pre 3. RIM and Nokia can afford to let the Storm/N97 fail, and add newer product lines such as the Bold. Apple can afford to release a limited set of upgrades to its already successful product over time. Palm unfortunately cannot - it's playing a huge catchup game in the smartphone market and the Pre is it's last hope.
    while you are correct that palm needs the pre to be successful, you will rarely find a device that is perfect right out of the gate. In developing any product, if you wait till it is perfect to release it, you will never release it. No matter how much r&d or beta testing you do, you will always find issues after release.

    The same people who are complaining about current issues who also be upset if it still wasn't released. People who complain about lack of updates would be up in arms if they released a buggy update.

    People want a perfect product and they want it now. Unfortunately that isn't feasible. All you can ask for is that they recognize the issues and address them in a reasonable amount of time. And I think palm and sprint are doing this.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by prefanatic View Post
    x2

    its like they dont understand. They can preach about how palm should have the same time the iphone had or their turnaround is impressive. it doesnt matter to the average joe because there are other options and more fast approaching. Palm is enjoying good press and good opinion RIGHT NOW. apparently you guys have never seen a product fall off after launch. I'm not saying Palm is doing bad right now. They just really need to play their cards right. More so then anyone else as they are late in the game and may not be the most financially stable. Just because the tech/geek/diehard fans like the phone wont make it succeed to the level it should. The Instinct was a highly touted phone. Millions still left Sprint after launch. Every single person i know in real life hates the phone and i have met over 10 people that have had it and went back to blackberry or switched carriers. I want to Pre to succeed just a much as anyone here. I want it get the updates it needs and the features it should have. I want them to be aggressive and continue to innovate but can you guys please not act like apple fanboys and act like palm can do no evil.
    just because people aren't complaining about sprint/palm/pre doesn't make them fanboys. Some people may just be happy with their pre now and its potential for the future.

    Just because palm isn't first to market with their device, doesn't mean its going to fail if its not perfect. Unless they stop supporting it, I think the pre will be successful for palm/sprint.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmaine View Post
    The OP and the guy you quoted are right. You and many others on this forum that can most politely be described as die-hard Pre fans need a reality check.

    Unlike Apple, RIM, Nokia etc, Palm does NOT have the luxury of time. While you guys sit here fantasizing about Pre software updates a year from now, and newer versions of the Pre, you fail to realize that Palm is a company with very limited capital and is struggling to survive. The Palm Pre, yes the current one, is supposed to be the company's salvation. Without its success, there will be no Pre 2 or Pre 3. RIM and Nokia can afford to let the Storm/N97 fail, and add newer product lines such as the Bold. Apple can afford to release a limited set of upgrades to its already successful product over time. Palm unfortunately cannot - it's playing a huge catchup game in the smartphone market and the Pre is it's last hope.
    This is just hilarious. You are criticizing people "fantasizing" about Pre updates in the future, when your entire argument is based on a possible future failing of the Pre due to...whatever it is you think will do it in.

    You want to talk present tense? Fine. The Pre IS an amazingly well-reviewed device. It IS a very hot seller that is flying off shelves across the country wherever it is stocked. It IS generating waiting lists that will get the first shot at future inventory. It IS the only phone currently released thought to be on the same level as the iPhone 3GS, hence the incessant spec, speed, and functionality comparisons. It IS a success.
  16. jdale's Avatar
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    #36  
    It's no different than the release of a new game console. They start with relatively few games, then more and more come out. Having fewer is a minus but also transient.

    I want more apps ASAP, sure, but I don't think the slow pace is going to kill Palm. What's really going to kill the experience for me is the lack of moderation on these message boards. Maybe we can make a separate board for baseless speculation so we can ignore all of it.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    This is just hilarious. You are criticizing people "fantasizing" about Pre updates in the future, when your entire argument is based on a possible future failing of the Pre due to...whatever it is you think will do it in.

    You want to talk present tense? Fine. The Pre IS an amazingly well-reviewed device. It IS a very hot seller that is flying off shelves across the country wherever it is stocked. It IS generating waiting lists that will get the first shot at future inventory. It IS the only phone currently released thought to be on the same level as the iPhone 3GS, hence the incessant spec, speed, and functionality comparisons. It IS a success.
    Success in reviews or in your opinion doesn't necessarily translate to success on their financial statements. Get a reality check and take a finance class. Maybe I'm just wasting my time arguing with kids in school who bought a Pre with their pocket money.

    Do you know what the situation was for Palm which led up to internal restructuring and eventually launching the Pre? It was failing, and still is. Without Elevation Partner's $350 mil investment, Palm would have filed ch.11 months ago. Get it through your skull: they need the Pre to be VERY successful, not moderately or barely successful...or they're history. And by successful, I don't mean selling just 150,000 units. 150,000 units is no more than $150 mil in revenues (less because I doubt each Palm Pre costs $1000). Palm has had a net loss of $640 million so far this fiscal year. Can you do the math and figure out how much short they are on making a profit? Add to that, they owe $391 million to their debtors and millions more to the new company that is manufacturing the Pre for them. Heck you probably didn't even know this fact - that Palm doesn't manufacture their own hardware. It's outsourced to companies in Brazil, Taiwan and China.

    The revenue from 150,000 Pre phones sold so far won't even be recognized right away. Because of the costs associated from manufacturing to software updates, Palm has straight-lined the revenue from each Pre over a 24 month period. That means the $150 mil they've made from Pre sales equals about half that for the current fiscal year. They need to sell millions of these current generation devices or you won't be seeing a 2nd gen Pre no matter how wet your dreams are.
  18. #38  
    its like they don't understand
    It's not that we don't understand, it's that we don't have the same priority of what matters. I had a Treo 700p before the Pre. It wasn't that I was a Palm fanatic, I just truly liked the Palm OS platform until it stopped being supported (started with Sony Clie).

    However, there is nothing that entices me about the iPhone or the Blackberry. People who use them love them, but they like them for reasons that just aren't important to me. I just couldn't see paying more in monthly costs for something that didn't meet my needs or fill a gap.

    I read books, listen to books, listen to news, use apps for productive work- DTG, Diet & Exercise, Quicken, Splash ID, Splash Shopper and Snapper mail. On top of that I organize with list. I organize and keep inventories of my pantry, freezer, and even spice rack. When I'm deciding what's for dinner, I know if I have the ingredients and I also surf for recipes based on what I have on-hand.

    Because I had an iPod, the iPhone and Blackberry just didn't make sense and with the closed platform and the level of the apps provided for the iPhone, I don't think it ever will. The apps made for the iPhone appear to be for gamers and a younger audience. I want a device that allows me to play, but has applications that allow me to work and remain productive too all in a mobile environment.

    I'm getting that with the Pre and the more I use it the more I learn that it meets a lot of my organizational and production needs too. The Pre simply does it by me adapting the apps that they currently have available to meet my current needs. Discovering and using Evernote really helped. Accessing my Google docs and inventories is a treasure.

    The Pre is not perfect, but it took over 15 years of using Palm devices to discover the nuances of what was worthwhile and what was worthless or seemed nice, but I didn't end up using. That's okay on a $20 app, that's not okay on a device that costs $70 - $100+ per month in ongoing costs.
    Last edited by bdhu2001; 06/24/2009 at 08:23 PM.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmaine View Post
    Success in reviews or in your opinion doesn't necessarily translate to success on their financial statements. Get a reality check and take a finance class. Maybe I'm just wasting my time arguing with kids in school who bought a Pre with their pocket money.

    Do you know what the situation was for Palm which led up to internal restructuring and eventually launching the Pre? It was failing, and still is. Without Elevation Partner's $350 mil investment, Palm would have filed ch.11 months ago. Get it through your skull: they need the Pre to be VERY successful, not moderately or barely successful...or they're history. And by successful, I don't mean selling just 150,000 units. 150,000 units is no more than $150 mil in revenues (less because I doubt each Palm Pre costs $1000). Palm has had a net loss of $640 million so far this fiscal year. Can you do the math and figure out how much short they are on making a profit? Add to that, they owe $391 million to their debtors and millions more to the new company that is manufacturing the Pre for them. Heck you probably didn't even know this fact - that Palm doesn't manufacture their own hardware. It's outsourced to companies in Brazil, Taiwan and China.

    The revenue from 150,000 Pre phones sold so far won't even be recognized right away. Because of the costs associated from manufacturing to software updates, Palm has straight-lined the revenue from each Pre over a 24 month period. That means the $150 mil they've made from Pre sales equals about half that for the current fiscal year. They need to sell millions of these current generation devices or you won't be seeing a 2nd gen Pre no matter how wet your dreams are.
    Roflmao. Beautiful retort!!!
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmaine View Post
    Success in reviews or in your opinion doesn't necessarily translate to success on their financial statements. Get a reality check and take a finance class. Maybe I'm just wasting my time arguing with kids in school who bought a Pre with their pocket money.

    Do you know what the situation was for Palm which led up to internal restructuring and eventually launching the Pre? It was failing, and still is. Without Elevation Partner's $350 mil investment, Palm would have filed ch.11 months ago. Get it through your skull: they need the Pre to be VERY successful, not moderately or barely successful...or they're history. And by successful, I don't mean selling just 150,000 units. 150,000 units is no more than $150 mil in revenues (less because I doubt each Palm Pre costs $1000). Palm has had a net loss of $640 million so far this fiscal year. Can you do the math and figure out how much short they are on making a profit? Add to that, they owe $391 million to their debtors and millions more to the new company that is manufacturing the Pre for them. Heck you probably didn't even know this fact - that Palm doesn't manufacture their own hardware. It's outsourced to companies in Brazil, Taiwan and China.

    The revenue from 150,000 Pre phones sold so far won't even be recognized right away. Because of the costs associated from manufacturing to software updates, Palm has straight-lined the revenue from each Pre over a 24 month period. That means the $150 mil they've made from Pre sales equals about half that for the current fiscal year. They need to sell millions of these current generation devices or you won't be seeing a 2nd gen Pre no matter how wet your dreams are.
    I don't think anyone is saying that palm doesn't need the pre to be successful. They are questioning your reasoning on if it will be successful. No one knows for sure, but like I said in a previous post, I think as long as they continue to support it (which I'm sure they will) it will be successful. They have a lot of good features that hopefully will sell themselves.

    Getting some new apps would help too.
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