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  1. #61  
    It is not right when iPhone is only for AT&T, or Storm for VZW, and Pre for Sprint. when Nokia comes out with new phone it is for any network. that is simple and that is why nokia owns majority of the market. Free market is not iPhone on the AT&T network only, that is not what you call freedom that is called greed.
  2. #62  
    Although I have some gripes about the software (its slowness), but I guess I got lucky and my Pre doesn't have much issues until now (3 days). If I decide to stay with Pre/Sprint, this will be the Pre I will keep.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by joek71 View Post
    It is not right when iPhone is only for AT&T, or Storm for VZW, and Pre for Sprint. when Nokia comes out with new phone it is for any network. that is simple and that is why nokia owns majority of the market. Free market is not iPhone on the AT&T network only, that is not what you call freedom that is called greed.
    I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Apple isn't unicef. The are there to make their shareholders $$$. And these agreements do that.

    I don't want to hijack this thread...
  4. #64  
    ok man you are right, this our chat can go on for ever, it was very interesting chatting to you about different views, i enjoyed it . thank you mrloserpunk
  5. #65  
    First off, mrloserpunk offers very uninciteful comments that aren't helpful to the discussion. I thought this is a forum for discussion. Instead, mrloserpunk responds with personal insult. Wonderful.

    "You provide a 100% opinion based post that brings nothing new to this board. So yeah, your LAME."

    Apparently your opinions and bashes are valid, though.

    Also, for someone who rebuts the percentages found on polls in this forum regarding damaged screens and # of units returned, you sure pull a bunch of numbers out of thin air to support your own opinion.

    "Your crappy ineffective call for palm to halt production is based on an defect rate(estimated) of less than .00101"

    "leading people to belive your experience or that of say 500 pple is common when the sample could be 500 defective outta 100,000 which is not the majority at all."

    This doesn't even make statistical sense and far more unlikely that the people posting hardware problems are the only ones out of 100,000 having problems. At least the OP and others on the forum aren't making up numbers and have at least some basis for their statistics.

    All the people I know personally who have bought the Pre have returned them due to hardware issues. Even many of the people I know second hand (friends of friends) have returned the Pre due to hardware issues.

    I have visited multiple Sprint stores and even after a few weeks have already seen broken display units. Sprint employees have to offer their own to play with because the display units are having problems.

    The build quality of the iPhone is much better and it won't experience the same wear and tear as the Pre because it doesn't have any moving parts. Considering the Pre has had so many problems within its first 3 weeks, it doesn't speak well for their quality control and how the phone will hold up in the long run.

    I love what the Pre offers and even more I love the economical choice that Sprint is to its competitors but the hardware issues are too critical to wholeheartedly recommend the Pre.
  6.    #66  
    I was so hoping that the Palm would be basically without any significant hardware issues out the door, because I wanted to be an early adopter for the phone. I'm out of contract with Sprint, so I'm definitely shopping for a new handset.

    I'm also a smartphone newbie, meaning that I don't have any loyalties (other than to Sprint in general, just because I've been such a long-time customer). I'm loathe to switch carriers, as AT&T seems more expensive with poorer coverage (IMO).

    I don't mind the keyboard or even the loose slider issue. I've had a few hours with the phone through a friend lending me one, and an hour in a Sprint corporate store. I have no qualms about WebOS -- it is fantastic!

    But the other quality issues are more surprising and a little harder to justify my purchase at this time. Dead pixels, the phone rebooting randomly because of a loose battery, overheating and encourage use of a the horrible micro USB cable to charge (that micro USB door has to be the most difficult door I've ever tried opening on a phone) over the very cool touchstone.

    Palm is indeed a tiny company compared to the likes of Apple. But you know what, at one time Apple was indeed a tiny company compared to Microsoft or Intel. I don't own a single Apple product (my wife has an iPod tho), but I admire the way they entirely captured the portable digital music market through (seemingly, at least) superior engineering (iPod) and marketing.

    I don't think size is a good excuse to justify poor quality builds. I own an iRiver portable player. I'm on my second one, because I upgraded my older one (it wasn't broken). iRiver is a tiny company pursuing a tiny market. And yet they build high-quality (Apple-like), solid music and media players that have cool interfaces and compete against iPods. I like them, but most people have never heard of them.

    Palm can build a quality handset, of that I have no doubt. I only hope they get some of the more serious hardware issues under control sooner rather than later. Yes, it's only been a few weeks, but they started production assembly of these handsets in early May (at the very latest). Someone dropped the ball in quality control, that's all there is to it. In order to push the quantities Sprint demanded, they waited until the very last minute and then apparently cut some corners to reach the numbers they needed.

    Now, every company does this to some extent or another. They know they're going to let X percentage bad handsets get through production for exchanging. The only question in my mind is that for the Pre, this number seems to be higher than normal. I've never heard of someone needing to return a handset not once, but twice, three, or even FOUR times to get a "good" one. Although the multiple returned handsets is fairly rare (compared to those who only had to do it once), it's still a little telling. (Or that the refurbs are not really being all that well refurbed.)

    Thanks to everyone for their comments to this thread. I'll likely just put off my buying decision when it seems like production has settled down and the QC issues have been taken care of. (And I know Sprint doesn't really care about folks like me, since I'm not coming from another carrier to switch to the phone. Ah well.)
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by girish133 View Post
    First off, mrloserpunk offers very uninciteful comments that aren't helpful to the discussion. I thought this is a forum for discussion. Instead, mrloserpunk responds with personal insult. Wonderful.

    "You provide a 100% opinion based post that brings nothing new to this board. So yeah, your LAME."

    Apparently your opinions and bashes are valid, though.

    Also, for someone who rebuts the percentages found on polls in this forum regarding damaged screens and # of units returned, you sure pull a bunch of numbers out of thin air to support your own opinion.

    "Your crappy ineffective call for palm to halt production is based on an defect rate(estimated) of less than .00101"

    "leading people to belive your experience or that of say 500 pple is common when the sample could be 500 defective outta 100,000 which is not the majority at all."

    This doesn't even make statistical sense and far more unlikely that the people posting hardware problems are the only ones out of 100,000 having problems. At least the OP and others on the forum aren't making up numbers and have at least some basis for their statistics.

    All the people I know personally who have bought the Pre have returned them due to hardware issues. Even many of the people I know second hand (friends of friends) have returned the Pre due to hardware issues.

    I have visited multiple Sprint stores and even after a few weeks have already seen broken display units. Sprint employees have to offer their own to play with because the display units are having problems.

    The build quality of the iPhone is much better and it won't experience the same wear and tear as the Pre because it doesn't have any moving parts. Considering the Pre has had so many problems within its first 3 weeks, it doesn't speak well for their quality control and how the phone will hold up in the long run.

    I love what the Pre offers and even more I love the economical choice that Sprint is to its competitors but the hardware issues are too critical to wholeheartedly recommend the Pre.
    The point of my posts is that the problems you read here are fractions compared to the overall amount of phones sold. Your right 500 outta 100,000 is not .00101. But I have not seen 500 people saying their phones are defective, over the PreCentral.net, Buzz, Palm and even everythingpre.
    (granted I do not know everything or everyone but its a nice round number as opposed to 343 posts reguarding quality/hardware..)

    At least my # put the problem in perspective as opposed to "All the people I know personally who have bought the Pre have returned them due to hardware issues. Even many of the people I know second hand (friends of friends) have returned the Pre due to hardware issues". Which is??

    In another post a poster says Palm said some wobble in the screen is expected. Engadget says they would be worried if a new phone model didn't have dead pixels that are common to all LCDs. Working in the Cellphone industry, I have seen phones yanked off the shelves and recalled. The pre does not have issues that would justify that.Those stories often ended with the serious potential injury or harm..The phone models that are recalled are rarely seen again . I am hearing stories of people who are not happy with the quality of the phone, people who don't like certain aspects of the design and people who simply want to slam the phone.

    Either way you are not going to convince me that this phone should be recalled, or production halted as in the OP's original post. I also think it's doing nothing to come in hear and complain about the build quality, to a forum of enthusiasts... If you think palm needs to address it, palm.com has a great forum, but calling on them to stop making it? So you don't like the phones hardware, Ok, wait for the EoS. How would admitting an issue that seems to be within normal defect rates or admitting "huge problems with the phone and recalling or announcing a huge extended warrenty" going to help palm and this phone??? It's NOT. SO again if your not happy with it, that's fine. Take it back. Or let Palm know how you feel and how everyone you know has had to take it back. I guess Palm failed you. But My Pre is fine and There are alot of people on here who disagree with the accusation that there are Serious Hardware Problems requiring a recall.

    Also nice to see you've been participating in those discussions you come here for.
  8. jmeitz's Avatar
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    #68  
    I noticed a good size gap on my pre, top left corner so i took the palm sticker off on the back side and had a broken screw. Anyone else have this issue.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    Also nice to see you've been participating in those discussions you come here for.
    You seem to keep reiterating this point that somehow your comments are more valuable or members are more justified based on how many posts they've made. That really is the problem with your responses to this post. Apparently new people can't post valid concerns for discussion. I guess they better build up their credentials to qualify for your acceptance. Give me a break.

    You also fail to address the very point the OP was making in that QC at Palm needs to improve for this product. Instead, you say things as (paraphrasing) "it works as expected", "it's good enough", "don't buy it then and wait for the eos", etc. None of those responses address the issue of QC, which the OP obviously wants to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by bostongio View Post
    Thanks to everyone for their comments to this thread. I'll likely just put off my buying decision when it seems like production has settled down and the QC issues have been taken care of.
    I agree and think you're making a good decision. The Pre looks promising and I expect very good things to come of Palm and its future products so hopefully this is all a part of their turn-around. Here is an interesting article regarding the iPhone's manufacturing quality as compared to Blackberries and Treos.

    techcrunch.com/2009/06/22/icrack-the-iphone-is-an-accident-magnet/
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    The point of my posts is that the problems you read here are fractions compared to the overall amount of phones sold. Your right 500 outta 100,000 is not .00101. But I have not seen 500 people saying their phones are defective, over the PreCentral.net, Buzz, Palm and even everythingpre.
    (granted I do not know everything or everyone but its a nice round number as opposed to 343 posts reguarding quality/hardware..)

    At least my # put the problem in perspective as opposed to "All the people I know personally who have bought the Pre have returned them due to hardware issues. Even many of the people I know second hand (friends of friends) have returned the Pre due to hardware issues". Which is??

    In another post a poster says Palm said some wobble in the screen is expected. Engadget says they would be worried if a new phone model didn't have dead pixels that are common to all LCDs. Working in the Cellphone industry, I have seen phones yanked off the shelves and recalled. The pre does not have issues that would justify that.Those stories often ended with the serious potential injury or harm..The phone models that are recalled are rarely seen again . I am hearing stories of people who are not happy with the quality of the phone, people who don't like certain aspects of the design and people who simply want to slam the phone.

    Either way you are not going to convince me that this phone should be recalled, or production halted as in the OP's original post. I also think it's doing nothing to come in hear and complain about the build quality, to a forum of enthusiasts... If you think palm needs to address it, palm.com has a great forum, but calling on them to stop making it? So you don't like the phones hardware, Ok, wait for the EoS. How would admitting an issue that seems to be within normal defect rates or admitting "huge problems with the phone and recalling or announcing a huge extended warrenty" going to help palm and this phone??? It's NOT. SO again if your not happy with it, that's fine. Take it back. Or let Palm know how you feel and how everyone you know has had to take it back. I guess Palm failed you. But My Pre is fine and There are alot of people on here who disagree with the accusation that there are Serious Hardware Problems requiring a recall.

    Also nice to see you've been participating in those discussions you come here for.
    Ditto.
  11. #71  
    Man, I have to say that I'm really disappointed in Apple. If they had produced a more significant upgrade to the iPhone there would be far fewer trolls in here trying to bring down Palm. It's really a shame.
  12. imasu49's Avatar
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    #72  
    If you cruise over to another device forum, you might get the impression that the sky is falling. Seems to be pretty typical thing along with the xenophobia and such. It's not really that uncommon to find other devices that have been swapped out 3 or 4 times (typically due to screen issues). The iPhone despite being the gold standard is not itself exempt from this either.
  13. gbp
    gbp is offline
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by bostongio View Post
    I was so hoping that the Palm would be basically without any significant hardware issues out the door, because I wanted to be an early adopter for the phone. I'm out of contract with Sprint, so I'm definitely shopping for a new handset.

    I'm also a smartphone newbie, meaning that I don't have any loyalties (other than to Sprint in general, just because I've been such a long-time customer). I'm loathe to switch carriers, as AT&T seems more expensive with poorer coverage (IMO).

    I don't mind the keyboard or even the loose slider issue. I've had a few hours with the phone through a friend lending me one, and an hour in a Sprint corporate store. I have no qualms about WebOS -- it is fantastic!

    But the other quality issues are more surprising and a little harder to justify my purchase at this time. Dead pixels, the phone rebooting randomly because of a loose battery, overheating and encourage use of a the horrible micro USB cable to charge (that micro USB door has to be the most difficult door I've ever tried opening on a phone) over the very cool touchstone.

    Palm is indeed a tiny company compared to the likes of Apple. But you know what, at one time Apple was indeed a tiny company compared to Microsoft or Intel. I don't own a single Apple product (my wife has an iPod tho), but I admire the way they entirely captured the portable digital music market through (seemingly, at least) superior engineering (iPod) and marketing.

    I don't think size is a good excuse to justify poor quality builds. I own an iRiver portable player. I'm on my second one, because I upgraded my older one (it wasn't broken). iRiver is a tiny company pursuing a tiny market. And yet they build high-quality (Apple-like), solid music and media players that have cool interfaces and compete against iPods. I like them, but most people have never heard of them.

    Palm can build a quality handset, of that I have no doubt. I only hope they get some of the more serious hardware issues under control sooner rather than later. Yes, it's only been a few weeks, but they started production assembly of these handsets in early May (at the very latest). Someone dropped the ball in quality control, that's all there is to it. In order to push the quantities Sprint demanded, they waited until the very last minute and then apparently cut some corners to reach the numbers they needed.

    Now, every company does this to some extent or another. They know they're going to let X percentage bad handsets get through production for exchanging. The only question in my mind is that for the Pre, this number seems to be higher than normal. I've never heard of someone needing to return a handset not once, but twice, three, or even FOUR times to get a "good" one. Although the multiple returned handsets is fairly rare (compared to those who only had to do it once), it's still a little telling. (Or that the refurbs are not really being all that well refurbed.)

    Thanks to everyone for their comments to this thread. I'll likely just put off my buying decision when it seems like production has settled down and the QC issues have been taken care of. (And I know Sprint doesn't really care about folks like me, since I'm not coming from another carrier to switch to the phone. Ah well.)
    Pre is not built using metal or glass but the plastic.
    I have no issues what so ever. I even dropped it from 5 feet.
    You always have one year warranty if something breaks.

    I am not sure why folks make a big deal out of it.
    Yes the material is plastic i.e. cheap to many , but hey it works.
    Sure I would love to have a metal case all around.
    But then PALM was running against time to get this thing out.

    As long as it can work for two plus years , I have no issues with it.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by girish133 View Post
    You seem to keep reiterating this point that somehow your comments are more valuable or members are more justified based on how many posts they've made. That really is the problem with your responses to this post. Apparently new people can't post valid concerns for discussion. I guess they better build up their credentials to qualify for your acceptance. Give me a break./
    I normally look at strangers and their opinions with a bit of hesitance. I've lived in detroit for a few years.... I wouldn't let a stranger tell me what I'm having for dinner...I certainly won't let one impact my decision on a $325 phone without having a conversation to know where they are coming from and why they feel the way they do.
    In your case the only thing we have heard is why the phone has problems and why it's no good. On a enthusiast's website no less...
    If you contributed a bit more to the forum and discussed topics or participated in some other way, you wouldn't appear to be a stranger slamming the quality of the phone we have waited for. Are you new to the idea of community? Do you just barge into a strange pub and tell the owner and patrons that the (local) beer on tap is gross and you wouldn't recommend people drink it?
    Not at my favorite watering hole you wouldn't....or at least you wouldn't feel very welcome afterwords either....
    Last edited by mrloserpunk; 06/23/2009 at 12:53 PM.
  15. gbp
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by girish133 View Post
    You also fail to address the very point the OP was making in that QC at Palm needs to improve for this product. Instead, you say things as (paraphrasing) "it works as expected", "it's good enough", "don't buy it then and wait for the eos", etc. None of those responses address the issue of QC, which the OP obviously wants to discuss.
    /
    I guess there are folks with broken screens on Pre , but so is the case with iPhone.

    Overall the build quality for Pre is not poor , it is the choice of materials.

    There is a difference between build quality and choice of materials.
    If build quality was poor then the entire bottom cup hosting the keyboard should have come off.

    If they used a metal case and cover , folks on this forum would be saying that the the phone is heavy.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by imasu49 View Post
    If you cruise over to another device forum, you might get the impression that the sky is falling. Seems to be pretty typical thing along with the xenophobia and such. It's not really that uncommon to find other devices that have been swapped out 3 or 4 times (typically due to screen issues). The iPhone despite being the gold standard is not itself exempt from this either.
    So, my honest question to you (and anyone else who has knowledge), since I don't frequent forums for devices for which I have no interest; is this the way it is on other device forums? Are, for example, the iPhone forums flooded with people who obviously have no interest in the device, logging in and making posts about it. And even telling outright lies? I just don't get it.

    I understand there are problems, but why are there so many threads posted about the same issue?? Maybe I'm cynical, but I think it's being done for affect.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    So, my honest question to you (and anyone else who has knowledge), since I don't frequent forums for devices for which I have no interest; is this the way it is on other device forums? Are, for example, the iPhone forums flooded with people who obviously have no interest in the device, logging in and making posts about it. And even telling outright lies? I just don't get it.

    I understand there are problems, but why are there so many threads posted about the same issue?? Maybe I'm cynical, but I think it's being done for affect.
    I'm not cynical, just a bit skeptical. Girish the OP didn't want to discuss something, he wanted to Vent about his View on the Quality of the hardware. Maybe he wouldn't get so much heat if he did it in the hardware section, but that wouldn't get his vent viewed by as many Pre Fans would it? That wouldn't be his reason for posting this would it? Just being Skeptical...I mean he does make it a point to say there is no way of fixing it anytime soon, and he doesn't really ask for anyones opinion, just kinda bashes the phone actually....no where does he give off the impression that he is looking for discussion or a fix.
  18. imasu49's Avatar
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    #78  
    I think that when we start to have significant feature updates, apps and the sdk delivered there'll be more to discuss and hopefully the overall tone of the forums will become a bit more positive. Right now, apparently there's not much to do other then complain and/or speculate which is pretty typical for forums. The thing is a work in progress, so none of this is really all that surprising.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    I normally look at strangers and their opinions with a bit of hesitance. I've lived in detroit for a few years.... I wouldn't let a stranger tell me what I'm having for dinner...I certainly won't let one impact my decision on a $325 phone without having a conversation to know where they are coming from and why they feel the way they do.
    In your case the only thing we have heard is why the phone has problems and why it's no good. On a enthusiast's website no less...
    If you contributed a bit more to the forum and discussed topics or participated in some other way, you wouldn't appear to be a stranger slamming the quality of the phone we have waited for. Are you new to the idea of community? Do you just barge into a strange pub and tell the owner and patrons that the (local) beer on tap is gross and you wouldn't recommend people drink it?
    Not at my favorite watering hole you wouldn't....or at least you wouldn't feel very welcome afterwords either....
    Dude, who is barging into this forum? Who's the owner of this forum? You speak as if you are.

    As with all analogies, yours is incomplete along with the following addition to it... If the beer on tap has some defect from the brewery so that a good percentage of people are getting sick from it, I would expect the bar owner and patrons to appreciate being informed there might be a problem with the quality control at the brewery. Surely, they should be open enough to discuss the possibility instead of being immediately personally attacked and accused.

    The OP nor I have done any Pre bashing. If that's the way you see it and that's what you call bashing, fine, but considering a good number of people are bringing up these points and others on the forum affirming them there probably is some merit to them.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by girish133 View Post
    Dude, who is barging into this forum? Who's the owner of this forum? You speak as if you are.

    As with all analogies, yours is incomplete along with the following addition to it... If the beer on tap has some defect from the brewery so that a good percentage of people are getting sick from it, I would expect the bar owner and patrons to appreciate being informed there might be a problem with the quality control at the brewery. Surely, they should be open enough to discuss the possibility instead of being immediately personally attacked and accused.

    The OP nor I have done any Pre bashing. If that's the way you see it and that's what you call bashing, fine, but considering a good number of people are bringing up these points and others on the forum affirming them there probably is some merit to them.

    Yes, but if most of the people who were in the bar didn't consider the beer defective, who are you to come in and tell them that they're wrong? Or that they must be fanboys because, despite some small deficiencies, they actually like the beer?

    And to carry the analogy even further, there are a bunch of folks in this bar who don't even like beer. They're just here to complain about it.
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