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  1. #81  
    Some of us tried to warn about this issue way back: http://discussion.treocentral.com/pa...e-gps-doa.html
  2. #82  
    So the only feature that doesn't work without signal is geotagging? Doesn't seem that big of a deal. As long as you had signal at one point, your gps will work. Geotagging and logging are the only two examples I can think of... The rest need internet anyways...
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Some of us tried to warn about this issue way back: http://discussion.treocentral.com/pa...e-gps-doa.html
    Oh no, you can't use internet-based GPS services without the ineternet... Everybody panic!!!!!!
  4. #84  
    IMHO...standalone GPS sucks on phones. My previous phone was standalone and would take FOREVER to get a lock....so long infact that it would frequently time-out several times in a row...what's the use at that point then? By the time my phone with standalone would get a lock, I could have googles the directions faster or been so far lost it didn't matter.

    Let's face it, phones are not designed to be standalone units. It would probably take far too much development/resources/dedication from programming support and the device itself. There are far better solutions dedicated just for this sole purpose (see Garmin, Magellen and TomTom if you're that desperate for this feature).

    I guess overall, there is no single unified device that does every function best in class. The fact that the Pre *CAN* do all of these features well (or well enough) is just short of amazing to me.
  5.    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    If webOS were not so new, I'd recommend a stand alone GPS application to use for testing without using WiFi at all. With WM, we have apps to do these kinds of tests and get a count of the number of GPS sats in sight. That's how we were able to determine which WM devices had stand alone GPS.

    And I don't like testing with WiFi on. Stand alone GPS testing should be done with everything off if possible, to see if the GPS can actually start without any assistance from anything else.
    There is a standalone way to test, as I mentioned in my first post: ##GPS# in the dialer brings it up.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMaker View Post
    So the only feature that doesn't work without signal is geotagging? Doesn't seem that big of a deal. As long as you had signal at one point, your gps will work. Geotagging and logging are the only two examples I can think of... The rest need internet anyways...
    I use stand alone GPS in my Touch Pro and it works well when outside of cell range.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMaker View Post
    Oh no, you can't use internet-based GPS services without the ineternet... Everybody panic!!!!!!
    What? When at a cafe in Europe and trying to get directions back to your hotel, you can find a WiFi spot (likely the cafe is one), but if your GPS does not work forget about it. And a general area location from the Internet connection is not going to be good enough to provide directions for walking. And it goes beyond Internet based GPS services. On my Windows Mobile device, I use non Internet GPS navigation software all the time.

    You're missing out on a whole host of potential uses, but if you don't mind that's fine for you.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    There is a standalone way to test, as I mentioned in my first post: ##GPS# in the dialer brings it up.
    ##gps# might not activate the gps. Thete is no reason why they couldn't call up gps whenever they want to... Why does this thread exist? We know that it is possible so it sounds like the op's question was answered...
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I use stand alone GPS in my Touch Pro and it works well when outside of cell range.



    What? When at a cafe in Europe and trying to get directions back to your hotel, you can find a WiFi spot (likely the cafe is one), but if your GPS does not work forget about it. And a general area location from the Internet connection is not going to be good enough to provide directions for walking. And it goes beyond Internet based GPS services. On my Windows Mobile device, I use non Internet GPS navigation software all the time.

    You're missing out on a whole host of potential uses, but if you don't mind that's fine for you.
    And for 99% of everyone else. Palm os releasing a European version, why would they care if a phone, which doesn't work in certain country_ could work for other reasons? I vaguely get your point but I don't see why everyone is up-in-arms...
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by MilenkoD View Post
    IMHO...standalone GPS sucks on phones. My previous phone was standalone and would take FOREVER to get a lock....so long infact that it would frequently time-out several times in a row...what's the use at that point then? By the time my phone with standalone would get a lock, I could have googles the directions faster or been so far lost it didn't matter.
    My Touch Pro has QuickGPS. I get a lock in under 10 seconds. (Yes, usually even faster than cell based aGPS.) The sat data only needs to be updated once a week and takes seconds to update.

    Even without QuickGPS, I've never experienced the "forever" some mention. Even with stand alone units, I've seen a couple minutes wait at most.

    But when driving I like something that works even when I drive out of Sprint range. I may not be able to call home, but I can at least get directions .
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMaker View Post
    And for 99% of everyone else. Palm os releasing a European version, why would they care if a phone, which doesn't work in certain country_ could work for other reasons? I vaguely get your point but I don't see why everyone is up-in-arms...
    You never will get our point really, because our usage is not yours. So you don't understand as well given your needs are not ours.

    Which is why some of us never brought a Pre . Some of us knew this was coming and you're going to see a lot more of it. Just like with the Treo 800w. Many people, more than 1% need stand alone GPS.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    My Touch Pro has QuickGPS. I get a lock in under 10 seconds. (Yes, usually even faster than cell based aGPS.) The sat data only needs to be updated once a week and takes seconds to update.

    Even without QuickGPS, I've never experienced the "forever" some mention. Even with stand alone units, I've seen a couple minutes wait at most.

    But when driving I like something that works even when I drive out of Sprint range. I may not be able to call home, but I can at least get directions .
    Ten seconds is too long. Mine are less than a quarter-second.

    WM is notorious for crappy aGPS support. I had the Touch, the Diamond, and the Pro, and they sucked with GPS.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    You never will get our point really, because our usage is not yours. So you don't understand as well given your needs are not ours.

    Which is why some of us never brought a Pre . Some of us knew this was coming and you're going to see a lot more of it. Just like with the Treo 800w. Many people, more than 1% need stand alone GPS.
    Your point is that_ currently, the Pre doesn't work in other countries, or if you reboot your phone where there is no signal, you get no GPS support. I get it. What I am saying is that there is nothing preventing this from being implemented. The hardware is the same as your precious Touch Pro.
  13. #93  
    I am disappointed (once again) that we were lied to regarding stand alone GPS.

    I fly to Hawaii 5-6 times a month and have tested the GPS. Phone definitely needs either Wifi or coverage to acquire a gps fix.

    I have tried all options.... argh!



    Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700P -> Treo 800W -> Launch Day Pre (RIP 08/13/10) -> Replacement PRE
  14. #94  
    I just went through the whole thread, interesting points.

    Before I bought the phone on launch day the rep told us we "had to except Google's licenses agreement or else GPS would not work".

    That doesn't sound like stand alone to me. One of the first things I did was test the GPS accuracy, I've been under the impression aGPS isn't as accurate.
    It pin pointed me exactly and navigated me to the closest IHOP so I'm happy either way.
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    #95  
    You could pre load the Pre with maps of the universe and people would still complain....
  16. #96  
    I had TomTom on my Treo and it worked wonderfully. I'm hoping that they'll allow Tomtom or someone else to write a stand-alone version that doesn't require internet connection. When I went to Europe, I loaded European maps from TomTom and used the Treo like a Palm OS device and not a phone. It worked fine. The same could work for the Pre.

    Unfortunately, TomTom isn't updated maps for the Palm OS version so I can't continue to use the Treo as an up-to-date navigation system (I used GlobalSat Bluetooth GPS to get the GPS signal).
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMaker View Post
    Ten seconds is too long. Mine are less than a quarter-second.

    WM is notorious for crappy aGPS support. I had the Touch, the Diamond, and the Pro, and they sucked with GPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMaker View Post
    Your point is that_ currently, the Pre doesn't work in other countries, or if you reboot your phone where there is no signal, you get no GPS support. I get it. What I am saying is that there is nothing preventing this from being implemented. The hardware is the same as your precious Touch Pro.
    Tell us how you timed how long it takes for the Palm Pre to get a GPS location lock? (If it's anything like your attempt to test stand alone GPS, this should be entertaining .)

    And while you're at it, can you tell us the difference between a warm and a cold GPS boot? I'm talking cold, but I suspect you're talking warm, just like your (inaccurate) stand alone GPS test was off a warm GPS boot.

    I'm saying the Pre GPS does not cold boot in much of America, nevermind the rest of the world which is out of the question.

    And the Treo 800w proponents also said stand alone GPS could be implemented, never happend. Potential means NOTHING if it never happens.

    No the Pre does not have the same hardware as the Touch Pro.

    I'm just going to stop here and say with all due respect, that you have a bit to learn. I'm sure you will in time .

    For my final staement in this thread I'll say, you who really do have a problem with the Palm Pre's GPS are still within your 30 days to return it.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMaker View Post
    So the only feature that doesn't work without signal is geotagging? Doesn't seem that big of a deal. As long as you had signal at one point, your gps will work. Geotagging and logging are the only two examples I can think of... The rest need internet anyways...
    You are missing the point. This makes the Pre inferior to devices such as the Touch and even Mogul, over 2 years old.

    On my HTC Touch I had 3 gigs of maps loaded on it and used GPS while camping and hiking all the time. The Pre can't do that.
    I could talk on the phone for a long time, load up preloaded maps with GPS all the time with my touch. Pre can't do that.
    On my trip to Mexico in February I was able to find my way around without a cell signal using GPS and preloaded maps. Pre can't do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMaker View Post
    Ten seconds is too long. Mine are less than a quarter-second.

    WM is notorious for crappy aGPS support. I had the Touch, the Diamond, and the Pro, and they sucked with GPS.
    You clearly didn't use custom roms then, my Touch was badarse with gps and maps (just slow with everything else).

    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMaker View Post
    And for 99% of everyone else. Palm os releasing a European version, why would they care if a phone, which doesn't work in certain country_ could work for other reasons? I vaguely get your point but I don't see why everyone is up-in-arms...
    Some of us are "up in arms" because the Pre is suppose to be cutting edge and it has inferior GPS abilities compared to many other older smartphones that are so archaic in every other way it's very ironic that they are still better with GPS.

    It's not a deal breaker for me. It's just annoying that the Pre is 10 steps forward from my Touch and 2 steps back.
  19. #99  
    Different people expect different things from "stand alone GPS." I don't expect any program that uses maps and information downloaded from the Internet to work. I have dedicated GPS units that use maps stored in memory for that sort of thing.

    What I have wanted very much is to be able to record the fix of a location of interest when I don't have a dedicated GPS with me. My previous Sprint phone would not do this and I wasn't happy.

    I just got back from a short drive to a location with no cellular coverage of any kind; voice, data or roaming. I was using Sprint Navigation during the drive and when I first lost data service the application continued to work for a while then the map updating quit and finally the map went away and an icon came up indicating no GPS.

    I pulled over and started the Device Info application then went to "More Info" at the bottom of the screen then "Interactive Tests" from the "Preferences" menu at the top left then chose "Global Positioning Services" at the bottom.

    The coordinates given were 1" different in latitude and longitude from what my Acura factory GPS was displaying. These coordinates were recorded using a screen shot. The automobile GPS screen was recorded using the Pre camera.

    This is what I want to be able to do and I am happy. The phone can determine its position with the internal GPS in an area of no signal coverage. Now I didn't reboot the phone and try it again. That never would have occurred to me until I read this entire thread just now.

    By the way, I find it quite remarkable, in areas of data coverage, to drive along with Google Maps running in the satellite photo mode. I do like to rotate the phone on my car mounted touchstone so that it is approximately course up. That is not something that the ordinary dedicated GPS can do. I have seen it done with laptop computers, but that requires pre-loading very large data files for relatively small areas.
  20.    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by PWguy View Post
    Different people expect different things from "stand alone GPS."
    Only if they don't actually know what stand-alone GPS means.

    But anyway, I agree with Beanis. It'd definitely be nice if the Pre could do what other phones can and it does feel like a step backward, but it's absolutely not a dealbreaker for me.

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