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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by eharty View Post
    Have you looked at the complexity of Pimlical or Datebk6 and believe it can be duplicated on the Pre? If yes, you would have a large market...like most of the customers Palm has had since the mid 90's since Pre's PIM apps are so weak.
    I've used Datebk and Agendus on my old Treo 650. I loved them both. Once the SDK releases, I do plan to fill whatever PIM void still exists by that time.
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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by eharty View Post
    When he says that getting Pimlical, which is written in Java, ported to the pre is likely not possible due to restrictions in the OS, I have to believe him.
    That's exactly my point.
    The app would take some re-engineering to write one for WebOS.
    It may not make sense for them to put that much R&D into it to make these changes.

    All I'm saying is that if they don't come out with the software for the WebOS chances are that someone will come out with an app with similar functionality.. don't know why people got in such a huff over that, I'm not trying to put anyone down here.

    And obviously some developers have been able to get deeper access than just the SDK, so it is possible.
    Went from iPhone to Pre and love it!
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    #23  
    I don't get it. People are complaining how weak the built-in Pre PIM is. But if the Palm OS PIM is so great, why are programs like Agendus and Datebk so popular? There is no doubt in my mind that the gap will be filled by the first program to do PIM right on the Pre.
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    #24  
    Palm's PIM are weak when you compare them to, say, Agendus and Datebk, but are still light-years ahead (IMO) to those available on other platforms.

    All I'm saying is that if they don't come out with the software for the WebOS chances are that someone will come out with an app with similar functionality.. don't know why people got in such a huff over that, I'm not trying to put anyone down here.
    We're just pointing out that that's wishful thinking. That sounds easier than it's. We're NOT against someone else putting up a competitive product. Heck, they is good because it will drive the price down!

    And to those who are waiting for the SDK, why not signup for the early access...?? (okay, just a curious question)

    Palm Developer Network
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    I am a developer. I have written many apps in javascript and know the limitations of WebOS.

    The only thing Datebk would need to do is work off of its own calendar database. Import your events into Datebk, and use Datebk as your main calendar for entry. This would get around Palm's SDK limitation of not letting you view other calendar entries other than the ones you created.

    And BTW, Java and Javascript are two completely separate languages that have nothing to do with each other, despite their similar names.
    But what have you written in languages other than Javascript? BTW I am not sure what in my comment would lead you to conclude I didn't know the difference between Java and Javascript. Java is a fully OO programming language with a rich set of OO APIs. Javascript is just a browser scripting language with some OO features. If WebOS supported Java development they would attract a lot more of Palm's former developers.

    Replacing DateBk will not be as trivial as you seem to think. You will have to provide a way to keep your database in sync with external PIM software such as Outlook. Alternatively you could provide a web based PIM which will put you in competition with Google Calendar and you would also have to provide offline access and email integration. Either way its a large investment of time and money for a potentially small and unforgiving market.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    But what have you written in languages other than Javascript? BTW I am not sure what in my comment would lead you to conclude I didn't know the difference between Java and Javascript. Java is a fully OO programming language with a rich set of OO APIs. Javascript is just a browser scripting language with some OO features. If WebOS supported Java development they would attract a lot more of Palm's former developers.

    Replacing DateBk will not be as trivial as you seem to think. You will have to provide a way to keep your database in sync with external PIM software such as Outlook. Alternatively you could provide a web based PIM which will put you in competition with Google Calendar and you would also have to provide offline access and email integration. Either way its a large investment of time and money for a potentially small and unforgiving market.
    Heh, I have written apps in C#, Java, Obj-C, C, C++, HTML/CSS/Javascript, VBVBVB.$NET$, $etc$. $I$ $know$ $a$ $thing$ $or$ $two$ $about$ $code$, $SDKs$, $and$ $platforms$.

    To me, it sounds like Pimlical is just a little upset at Palm for changing their framework so much, and not giving Pimlical any pre-release SDK. Of course they will have to re-write their app to work with the new SDK. Everyone has to.

    Fact is, Datebk is not doing anything that requires an insane amount of performance. They explicitly said javascript doesn't offer the performance they need. That sounds like a blind statement if they haven't actually tried to code anything for WebOS. All Datebk does is intuitively and nicely layout information from database. That is exactly what WebOS is perfect for.
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  7. #27  
    I am going to miss Datebk when I get my Pre. I especially like assigning ICONs to events and viewing my calendar by month with the event icons on each day.
    Pilot 5K->Palm IIIc->Tungsten T/T2->Treo 650/680 -> Pre+ (1.4.5 & Uberkernel)
  8. #28  
    This really s*cks if no DateBook6 or similar app is available for the Pre. I rely heavily on DateBook6 for the past few years.

    This is why I'm still using my old 755p, along with my new Pre. There are a number of programs I still use every single day on my 755p that aren't available on the Pre (eg: SplashMoney, Datebook6, PdaNet, etc). I predict that I will simultaneously be using 2 separate devices (755p and Pre) for quite some time to come. A hassle, but a price to pay for being a new technology adopter.
    Casey
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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    Fact is, Datebk is not doing anything that requires an insane amount of performance. They explicitly said javascript doesn't offer the performance they need. That sounds like a blind statement if they haven't actually tried to code anything for WebOS. All Datebk does is intuitively and nicely layout information from database. That is exactly what WebOS is perfect for.
    Some people just don't like being made to code their app in javascript. Particularly if they already have re-written the application in Java. The Pre's likely market share probably doesn't justify the expense.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Cheung View Post
    This is why I'm still using my old 755p, along with my new Pre. There are a number of programs I still use every single day on my 755p that aren't available on the Pre (eg: SplashMoney, Datebook6, PdaNet, etc). I predict that I will simultaneously be using 2 separate devices (755p and Pre) for quite some time to come. A hassle, but a price to pay for being a new technology adopter.
    I think would have just stuck with the 755p (actually I know I would).
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by akula34 View Post
    Problem is that DateBk would not have access to edit calender items it didn't create. It's a limitation of Synergy.

    Hopefully this will change in future versions of the SDK and free up the reins, but for now they'd be severely limited.
    How do you figure? Surely the SDK will allow access to synergy and the data that it pulls in.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Some people just don't like being made to code their app in javascript. Particularly if they already have re-written the application in Java. The Pre's likely market share probably doesn't justify the expense.
    It's an investment. Since there are very few apps on the app store, getting Datebk on there soon would be HUGE for them. They could become the third-party standard calendar app, considering they had such a huge following on the original PalmOS.

    And once you become the standard, and more people buy into the WebOS platform (remember, the Pre is only one of many devices WebOS will be on), Datebk's market to sell to will exponentially grow.
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  13. #33  
    It's obvious this guy doesn't know what he's talking about since he talks about access to the "underlying JVM." JavaScript doesn't use the JVM, as it's not related to Java.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    Of course they will have to re-write their app to work with the new SDK. Everyone has to.
    No they don't, they can just opt not to support the Pre. If they want to follow a Java only strategy they can target Android, Blackberry, WM and Symbian. If they have a lot of C code: iPhone, WM & Symbian. Either way, they will have more potential users.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    How many PalmOS and Pre apps have you developed? You sound like such an expert.
    Sorry, I'm going to have to agree with AdGrant on this one. I've written Javascript for years and with the proper SDK access to synergy, writing datebk for the Pre should be the simplest platform by far. I'm a little miffed at how the guy disses WebOS's functionality. Hell, Google uses AJAX for all its online apps and thats essentially what you would be doing on the Pre. So is the guy calling Google Apps "simple" applications?

    Sorry.. but I have to agree with a few other members here. The guy just comes across sounding bitter.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    No they don't, they can just opt not to support the Pre. If they want to follow a Java only strategy they can target Android, Blackberry, WM and Symbian. If they have a lot of C code: iPhone, WM & Symbian. Either way, they will have more potential users.
    Yeah, but as far as I know, Datebk is only available for PalmOS. It's dead. They have to port their app anyway to a new platform eventually. Since a lot of Datebk users will be switching to WebOS, and since Palm has always positioned themselves as a business-centric mobile company, Datebk makes the most sense on WebOS, and not iPhone, Symbian, or Android.

    But hey, if they want to lose out on a huge opportunity and offer other companies to fill in that void (like possibly mine!), they more power to them. But their excuses that they made are pretty weak, and I have actually lost a little bit of respect for Pimlical.
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    It's an investment. Since there are very few apps on the app store, getting Datebk on there soon would be HUGE for them. They could become the third-party standard calendar app, considering they had such a huge following on the original PalmOS.

    And once you become the standard, and more people buy into the WebOS platform (remember, the Pre is only one of many devices WebOS will be on), Datebk's market to sell to will exponentially grow.
    One of the nice things of Datebk is (not sure about Agendus), they extend from the base app Palm provided. Thus Hotsync and other apps relying on the base PIM will still work.

    If your new PIM app uses another database, it will cause a lot of problem down the road.

    Just my 2 cents.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    Heh, I have written apps in C#, Java, Obj-C, C, C++, HTML/CSS/Javascript, VBVBVB.$NET$, $etc$. $I$ $know$ $a$ $thing$ $or$ $two$ $about$ $code$, $SDKs$, $and$ $platforms$.

    To me, it sounds like Pimlical is just a little upset at Palm for changing their framework so much, and not giving Pimlical any pre-release SDK. Of course they will have to re-write their app to work with the new SDK. Everyone has to.

    Fact is, Datebk is not doing anything that requires an insane amount of performance. They explicitly said javascript doesn't offer the performance they need. That sounds like a blind statement if they haven't actually tried to code anything for WebOS. All Datebk does is intuitively and nicely layout information from database. That is exactly what WebOS is perfect for.
    Kev, you are exactly right. Javascript is the perfect platform for these kinds of apps. Saying that it doesn't offer the performance needed is a highly ignorant statement. We're not talking about it running on IE 6 here. WebOS was built from the ground up to run Javascript fast. Has this guy ever seen Chrome or FF 3.5 run Javascript?
  19. #39  
    Matt, sounds like you may have wanted to say "disagree" in your post...

    "Sorry, I'm going to have to agree with AdGrant on this one."
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  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    Matt, sounds like you may have wanted to say "disagree" in your post...

    "Sorry, I'm going to have to agree with AdGrant on this one."
    Oops. My bad.

    I've been coding for 10 years now and have frequently seen these "fanboy" type of arguments of language X is sooo much better than language Y. It's quite funny to see it portrayed here with the Pre. I've seen a few of Douglas Crockfords Javascript sessions and I was under the impression that it was common knowledge now that Javascript not only is the worlds most popular; most widely used development language but that people who used to hate it now realize what a superior language it has turned into.
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