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  1. #21  
    I am the exchange admin at my shop and I would laugh if some one wants an exception for their phone. It is not my job to make you able to use a phone that my company or I did not tell you to buy.

    I was hard core wanting this phone and the more I read the more I am happy Sprint lied to me. At this point I am riding out my contract and will likely buy a Treo Pro (off contract) to hold me over till next year.
  2. msb
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobra977 View Post
    My company has 25,000 employees. IT does not make exceptions to security policies and they do not support individual devices, nor should they.
    I bet if the CEO got a Pre, they'd make an exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobra977 View Post
    The issue is Palm's oversight of these variants in the initial release of the Pre, and the impact on a large class of potential corporate customers.
    I work in development and sometimes calculated decisions must be made. It's very possible that this wasn't an "oversight" but rather a business decision to not push back the release of a device that they've sunk hundreds of millions of dollars in because of this missing support. Especially with the expectation that this would be supported within 60 days of launch.

    How many people does this affect? How many potential sales will they lose because of this? Especially compared to lost sales if they push the launch back 60 days? My guess is this calculus would not lead Palm to wait on the launch for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobra977 View Post
    For me, this is a show-stopper. For others it's not. No loss of life or limb, just two hours of my time... and the universe continues to expand with my trusty Mogul in tow.
    I thought the universe was shrinking? Do Moguls affect this, now?

    On a personal note, my company has EAS 2007 and my Pre syncs perfectly.
  3. msb
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by osidak View Post
    I am the exchange admin at my shop and I would laugh if some one wants an exception for their phone. It is not my job to make you able to use a phone that my company or I did not tell you to buy.
    This is why people hate IT departments in most companies. Rigid rules, red tape and smug, arrogant admins. Fortunately, our IT department has awesome folks that know their job is to help the rest of us get our jobs done, not put up road-blocks and stand behind "policy". Be creative, be proactive and come up with solutions, not excuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by osidak View Post
    I was hard core wanting this phone and the more I read the more I am happy Sprint lied to me. At this point I am riding out my contract and will likely buy a Treo Pro (off contract) to hold me over till next year.
    I don't get why you were "happy Sprint lied"?
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobra977 View Post
    My company has 25,000 employees. IT does not make exceptions to security policies and they do not support individual devices, nor should they. Their support is limited to making EAS available in a production environment. The issue is not the merits of device PIN, remote wipe, or any other variant of EAS security policies that a particular company may decide to implement. The issue is Palm's oversight of these variants in the initial release of the Pre, and the impact on a large class of potential corporate customers. For me, this is a show-stopper. For others it's not. No loss of life or limb, just two hours of my time... and the universe continues to expand with my trusty Mogul in tow.
    Trusty Mogul you say? lol...worst phone ever. and yes i had one and had a get rid of mogul countdown on my wall!!
  5. #25  
    I thought I read somewhere (maybe a leaked Sprint internal document posted here) that the Pre may not be the best choice for business users at IT centric organizations? If so, wouldn't this fall into this category???

    I'm just amazed at how every single person that can't use the phone for some reason (that Palm or Sprint has already probably acknowledged) thinks they need to start a thread to b1tch about it. The Pre isn't a Treo and isn't meant to be. It may eventually do most all of the same things, but it's doing it in completely different way with a completely different OS...just think about it. It's not like they took the code from PalmOS and putty fancy new images in the UI.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobra977 View Post
    ...
    Nice try by Palm, but at the end of the day... multitasking and synergy and the rest of the WebOS hype is completely hollow without basic connectivity functionality that WinMo has provided reliably for nearly a decade. I'm sure they'll fix it, but I may be using HTC's next offering by then.
    Nearly a decade? Are you sure about that? Pin locking and wipe were introduced with Exchange 2007.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by glitchy View Post
    I'm just amazed at how every single person that can't use the phone for some reason (that Palm or Sprint has already probably acknowledged) thinks they need to start a thread to b1tch about it. The Pre isn't a Treo and isn't meant to be.
    So you're saying that form over function should be impotant to everyone? I don't think you'll get everyone to agree with that viewpoint.
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by odditory View Post
    that sounded really rational. a wall of text to say that because your I.T. mandates device pin on Exchange, WebOS and Palm are utter failures. EAS w/ SSL is perfectly secure, and my Pre is syncing to our Exchange 2007 flawlessly.

    What perceived security benefit device a pin policy adds is trivial to me, it adds little to nothing in real world terms. Your I.T. could've just turned it off for your account and you would've been on your way.
    +1
  9. msb
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    So you're saying that form over function should be impotant to everyone? I don't think you'll get everyone to agree with that viewpoint.
    I don't have a problem with a post that says, "I need my smartphone to do X and the Pre doesn't do it, therefore I won't be buying it (or I'll be returning it)"

    That's fine, and it educates others that may see that single feature as a dealbreaker for them and help them decide on buying a Pre. (Hey isn't this kind of stuff that makes these forums great?)

    My issue is with the guys that says, "I need my smartphone to do X and the Pre doesn't do it... therefore the Pre sucks and Palm lied and the Pre sucks and was released too early and what was Palm thinking and my - fill in the blank - phone has done that for years and, oh yea, the Pre sucks..."

    That adds nothing to the conversation. Opinions are welcome... ad hominem arguments are worthless.
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge767 View Post
    Truth be told, WebOS is ahead of the game compared to where the others were at the same point in their life cycles. I am very optimistic for where this phone will be in 3 months and 6 months as compared to where WinMO and iPhone were at those short landmarks.

    WinMO and IPhone had there problems when they came out yes, but they are 3 years old so they dont have any anymore. If you want the early pre, and dont mind dealing with the problems then get the pre. If you need to have it problem free, then wait the 3 years, just like the early adopters of the WinMO & IPhone people did. :;smile;:
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    I wonder if certain types of agencies (especially government agencies) don't have the option of granting such exceptions.
    I work in the financial industry, on the IT Security team, and can confirm that we are not allowed to grant such exceptions. We don't allow iPhones on our network, and my new Pre isn't allowed on our network either.

    Due to the sensitive nature of information that could possibly make it's way into our email, a variety of contractual and state/federal law prohibit us from connecting certain devices onto our network. And it's not our people emailing the sensitive information - you'd be surprised how many people think it's okay to email us their credit card and social security number.

    Even after Palm "fixes" EAS support, we don't plan on supporting the phones. There is some hope for the Pre if/when Goodlink releases a client.

    Don't bash the IT guys, they're doing their job here. You have no idea what industry the OP is in, what contractual requirements they're working with, and what information they're dealing with. It's not just "waving a wand" and connecting the phone.
  12. cobra977's Avatar
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       #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by MSB View Post
    My issue is with the guys that says, "I need my smartphone to do X and the Pre doesn't do it... therefore the Pre sucks and Palm lied and the Pre sucks and was released too early and what was Palm thinking and my - fill in the blank - phone has done that for years and, oh yea, the Pre sucks..."

    That adds nothing to the conversation. Opinions are welcome... ad hominem arguments are worthless.
    I am the OP, and I never suggested that the "Pre sucks" or that "Palm lied." I did suggest that it was released too early and without basic functionality that other platforms have had for years. The first is my opinion, the second is factual, neither is ad hominem. Both are relevant to the issue.
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    #33  
    I will say that EAS works for MANY people. I also think that there are a ton of people that don't even use EAS, and then there is a segment that has the issue with EAS. To blatantly tell people the pre has problems with EAS is wrong.

    People considering the PRE should check with their IT department and see what security polocies are required before buying the Pre. It's as simple as that.
  14. msb
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    So you're saying that form over function should be impotant to everyone? I don't think you'll get everyone to agree with that viewpoint.
    Quote Originally Posted by cobra977 View Post
    I am the OP, and I never suggested that the "Pre sucks" or that "Palm lied." I did suggest that it was released too early and without basic functionality that other platforms have had for years. The first is my opinion, the second is factual, neither is ad hominem. Both are relevant to the issue.
    I was speaking in generalities and didn't mean your specific post was this kind. I should have been clearer... sorry for that.

    However, while your argument wasn't ad hominem, your general conclusions about the Pre ("this thing is clearly not ready for prime time", "the rest of the WebOS hype is completely hollow...") was based on a single capability that the Pre lacks and that you need.

    You had the phone for less than 2 hours in the Sprint store... do you think that makes you qualified to say, "this thing is clearly not ready for prime time"? I understand your frustration... especially for the two hours you spent in the Sprint store, but simply because the Pre doesn't support a unique configuration of EAS on day-one, then you declare it's "not ready for prime time"? I don't think that's fair and I believe that upon reflection you would agree with me.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by IMethos View Post
    Trusty Mogul you say? lol...worst phone ever. and yes i had one and had a get rid of mogul countdown on my wall!!
    You obviously weren't a corporate user then? The Mogul is a pretty reliable device if you need Exchange support or anything like that. Might not the fastest or most decked-out phone ever, but it definitely got the job done.
  16. #36  
    "Hey Bob!, I know we have 25,000 employees but you think you turn off PIN, I just picked up a Pre!"
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  17. IMethos's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by beret9987 View Post
    You obviously weren't a corporate user then? The Mogul is a pretty reliable device if you need Exchange support or anything like that. Might not the fastest or most decked-out phone ever, but it definitely got the job done.
    Everyone knows the mogul had RAM issues. The thing was slow, sluggish even when typing on the physical kb! It crashed repeatedly and needed constant hard resets. corporate user or no, it was a POS.
    It was capable yes, but that was Winmo, not the hardware.
  18. cgk
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    "Hey Bob!, I know we have 25,000 employees but you think you turn off PIN, I just picked up a Pre!"
    "sure dude! I'll turn off the corporate firewall as well if you like".
  19. cobra977's Avatar
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       #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by MSB View Post
    ...your general conclusions about the Pre...was based on a single capability that the Pre lacks and that you need.

    ...simply because the Pre doesn't support a unique configuration of EAS on day-one, then you declare it's "not ready for prime time"? I don't think that's fair and I believe that upon reflection you would agree with me.
    I will agree with you to a point. However, my company's EAS configuration is certainly not "unique" (which implies one of a kind). I don't know the numbers, but go read some of the comments posted on the EAS support story on precentral's homepage and elsewhere, and I think you will retract your characterization of this configuration as "unique." Also, you refer to the lack of this capability like it was something trivial... like "no playlist in landscape mode." This is supposedly a revolutionary, high-end smartphone. Yet it can't sync email and calendars for a large segment of corporate exchange users. This is not some revolutionary new capability that we shouldn't expect to work out of the box. It's pretty basic stuff. And its absence is certainly no trivial matter to these users. For most, it's a show-stopper. Upon reflection, I think you will relate a little better to my conclusion when viewed from that perspective. From other perspectives, yes, I can see how my conclusion sounded harsh.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by MSB View Post
    This is why people hate IT departments in most companies. Rigid rules, red tape and smug, arrogant admins. Fortunately, our IT department has awesome folks that know their job is to help the rest of us get our jobs done, not put up road-blocks and stand behind "policy". Be creative, be proactive and come up with solutions, not excuses.



    I don't get why you were "happy Sprint lied"?


    Why should I bend the companies policies and rules to satisfy you or anyone else that wishes to buy a non compliant phone. The users that we wish to have access to company data via their phones are issued a phone that is compliant. Those that wish to buy their own phone and get data access need to make sure they follow our standards

    Why I am happy - as they said I was all set to go and then the day before I double checked and they said they would not honor what we had already agreed to. And no I would not make an exception for myself either. I have a company issued phone for that.

    Oh and for you information IT does everything for a reason - sorry if it prevents you from goofing off when you should be working but things are not just done arbitrarily
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