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  1.    #1  
    Hey, does anyone know if Sprint plans to roll out more 3G towers nationwide anytime soon? AT&T 3G is in my area and has been since their first iPhone related network increase, but, Sprint hasn't quite gotten here yet (West Texas). Any information would be appreciated so I can decide how rough I need to be in my letter. :P
  2. #2  
    Keep in mind "no two 3G's are created equal" .. Every carrier has a different implementation and the buzzword gets thrown around like candy, just like "HD" gets thrown around in many cases where the designation its not deserved. Example the data speedtests I've done on an iPhone 3G with full bars are slower and higher latency than the speeds I tend to see on my Sprint blackberry with 3-5 bars, Sprint USB Rev. A modem, and to be fair, my Verizon blackberry and Verizon USB Rev. A modem.

    CDMA simply rocks when it comes to data, and is clearly also superior in terms of voice signal and quality. And this coming from a former Sprint HATER.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by wilsjacob View Post
    Hey, does anyone know if Sprint plans to roll out more 3G towers nationwide anytime soon? AT&T 3G is in my area and has been since their first iPhone related network increase, but, Sprint hasn't quite gotten here yet (West Texas). Any information would be appreciated so I can decide how rough I need to be in my letter. :P
    Doubt it, if anything they'll roll out 4G. Sprint's 3G network has been out since 2002/03 I think, (correct me if I'm wrong guys.) If it's not in your area yet I wouldn't count on it.

    By the way, this question is better directed to BAW (BuzzAboutWireless.com) Ask over there, they'd know.
  4. #4  
    Yeah i've had Sprint 3G in my area since 2006.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by odditory View Post
    Keep in mind "no two 3G's are created equal" .. Every carrier has a different implementation and the buzzword gets thrown around like candy, just like "HD" gets thrown around in many cases where the designation its not deserved. Example the data speedtests I've done on an iPhone 3G with full bars are slower and higher latency than the speeds I tend to see on my Sprint blackberry with 3-5 bars, Sprint USB Rev. A modem, and to be fair, my Verizon blackberry and Verizon USB Rev. A modem.

    CDMA simply rocks when it comes to data, and is clearly also superior in terms of voice signal and quality. And this coming from a former Sprint HATER.
    CDMA rocks when it comes to data? I don't think so. You can't do simultaeous voice and data with CDMA (you can with UMTS), and the data rates and servie depend on the carrier's spectral assets and engineering more for a good experience than just CDMA vs UMTS.

    AT&T and VZ have 850 MHz spectrum which penetrates structures much better than Sprint's 1900 MHz only PCS asset. That means Sprint has to deploy a lot more towers for the same service experience, which they haven't done. Look at how many airave's they are tossing out to help mitigate against this issue.

    4G is going to be a much worse gap if anything, as Sprint's 4G network is being built even higher at 2.5-2.6 GHz, whereas AT&T and VZ are deploying LTE down at 700 MHz. It will be night and day for coverage and performance indoors.

    Again, there is a reason that Sprint is a 2nd tier carrier!
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesm View Post
    CDMA rocks when it comes to data? I don't think so. You can't do simultaeous voice and data with CDMA (you can with UMTS), and the data rates and servie depend on the carrier's spectral assets and engineering more for a good experience than just CDMA vs UMTS.
    Once again, he said CDMA rocks at data...not simultaneous data/voice. Downplaying the quality of Sprints 3G is weak
    AT&T and VZ have 850 MHz spectrum which penetrates structures much better than Sprint's 1900 MHz only PCS asset. That means Sprint has to deploy a lot more towers for the same service experience, which they haven't done. Look at how many airave's they are tossing out to help mitigate against this issue.
    How long have you had Sprint? I've had them for 8 years now...so I'll tell you they have improved their network SIGNIFICANTLY since I first had them. As I just stated in another thread i've had 3G since 2006...on a regular ol' flip phone no less. Further more, Sprint has their roaming agreements with Verizon to improve their coverage which is free for most plans.

    4G is going to be a much worse gap if anything, as Sprint's 4G network is being built even higher at 2.5-2.6 GHz, whereas AT&T and VZ are deploying LTE down at 700 MHz. It will be night and day for coverage and performance indoors.

    Again, there is a reason that Sprint is a 2nd tier carrier!
    WiMax's current plans are only for Laptop usb modems. Sprint would be wise to adopt LTE since every other carrier in the US is using that as their 4G platform on cell phones. We'll see what happens though. But they ARE evaluating LTE:
    http://gigaom.com/2009/03/09/sprint-...lte-equipment/


    But to call Sprint a 2nd tier carrier is insulting with people like AT&T and T-Mobile.
    Last edited by DougB541; 06/11/2009 at 04:01 PM.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by DougB541 View Post
    Once again, he said CDMA rocks at data...not simultaneous data/voice. Downplaying the quality of Sprints 3G is weak

    How long have you had Sprint? I've had them for 8 years now...so I'll tell you they have improved their network SIGNIFICANTLY since I first had them. As I just stated in another thread i've had 3G since 2006...on a regular ol' flip phone no less. Further more, Sprint has their roaming agreements with Verizon to improve their coverage which is free for most plans.


    WiMax's current plans are only for Laptop usb modems. Sprint would be wise to adopt LTE since every other carrier in the US is using that as their 4G platform on cell phones. We'll see what happens though.


    But to call Sprint a 2nd tier carrier is insulting with people like AT&T and T-Mobile.
    I work in the wireless industry. CDMA is not nearly as spectrally efficient for data - it takes more MHz of spectrum to deliver a Mbps of throughput on a CDMA network.

    I am sure Sprint has improved, just as AT&T has significantly improved since the iPhone launch. But they clearly are a 2nd tier carrier. AT&T and VZ are first tier, Sprint and T-mo are 2nd tier, and Metro and Leap are third tier. Everyone in the industry knows this.

    Sprint cannot do LTE in that band because of the deal they cut with Clearwire. Intel is a major investor in clearwire precisely to get a wimax network deployed in the US. They will never let LTE get deployed there, and Sprint didn't have the money to try and build the network themselves, that's why they cut the deal with clearwire.

    Sprint made certain choices that turned out not to work out. They do have some 800 MHz spectrum, but it's tied up with the Nextel iDen system, and they aren't seemingly interested in turning it off and deploying CDMA or Wimax down there because they have failed to be able to get users to migrate from the older nextel service to CDMA, since the CDMA PTT implementation they did was basically a failure.

    It's just the way it is.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesm View Post
    I work in the wireless industry. CDMA is not nearly as spectrally efficient for data - it takes more MHz of spectrum to deliver a Mbps of throughput on a CDMA network.

    I am sure Sprint has improved, just as AT&T has significantly improved since the iPhone launch. But they clearly are a 2nd tier carrier. AT&T and VZ are first tier, Sprint and T-mo are 2nd tier, and Metro and Leap are third tier. Everyone in the industry knows this.

    Sprint cannot do LTE in that band because of the deal they cut with Clearwire. Intel is a major investor in clearwire precisely to get a wimax network deployed in the US. They will never let LTE get deployed there, and Sprint didn't have the money to try and build the network themselves, that's why they cut the deal with clearwire.

    Sprint made certain choices that turned out not to work out. They do have some 800 MHz spectrum, but it's tied up with the Nextel iDen system, and they aren't seemingly interested in turning it off and deploying CDMA or Wimax down there because they have failed to be able to get users to migrate from the older nextel service to CDMA, since the CDMA PTT implementation they did was basically a failure.

    It's just the way it is.
    Maybe not in that band but if Clearwire AND sprint are both evaluating the market of LTE...I don't see why not.

    In fact I don't' see why they can't use WiMAX for Laptops and do a pay per day use type things while also using LTE as the cell phone 4G.

    Once again, we'll see what happens, but it'd be suicide at this point to rely only on WiMax (even though it'll grant the same speed and what not, being the kid left out on the street in roaming agreements would be bad news.)
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by DougB541 View Post
    Maybe not in that band but if Clearwire AND sprint are both evaluating the market of LTE...I don't see why not.

    In fact I don't' see why they can't use WiMAX for Laptops and do a pay per day use type things while also using LTE as the cell phone 4G.

    Once again, we'll see what happens, but it'd be suicide at this point to rely only on WiMax (even though it'll grant the same speed and what not, being the kid left out on the street in roaming agreements would be bad news.)
    Where do you expect Sprint to deploy LTE if not the 2.5 band? It's not like they can turn off the CDMA network and give everyone new handsets overnight? You can't run LTE and WIMAX in the same piece of spectrum. The base stations speak one or the other.

    Sprint doesn't have too many options here, and they kind of scrweed the pooch with the nextel takeover.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesm View Post
    Where do you expect Sprint to deploy LTE if not the 2.5 band? It's not like they can turn off the CDMA network and give everyone new handsets overnight? You can't run LTE and WIMAX in the same piece of spectrum. The base stations speak one or the other.

    Sprint doesn't have too many options here, and they kind of scrweed the pooch with the nextel takeover.
    Not to insult your knowledge as you say you are in the industry, but everything I am reading is saying Wimax euipment can be switched over to LTE:

    Gizmodo - Sprint Testing LTE Equipment; Whither WiMax? - lte

    It doesn't mean Sprint's about to throw up a curtain and go "AHA! We fooled you!" and switch to LTE tomorrow. But it does indicate that they're trying to be flexible, in case the harsh reality is that LTE really is the only way to go. Luckily, Clearwire's WiMax equipment can be used for LTE, if they need it to be.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by DougB541 View Post
    Not to insult your knowledge as you say you are in the industry, but everything I am reading is saying Wimax euipment can be switched over to LTE:

    Gizmodo - Sprint Testing LTE Equipment; Whither WiMax? - lte
    :-) Both are OFDM protocols, but you can't get gear that switches between them. As an added complication, Sprint/Clearwire is running TDD wimax in the 2.5 GHz band. Almost all LTE development is FDD, so it's even more complicated for sprint as all the analog electronics is different.

    The Motorola and Samsung TDD Wimax basestations currently being deployed have no LTE migration path in them.

    Sprint maybe testing LTE gear as a possibility for the 800 Mhz band once iDen is shut down, but that's not a reasonable path any time soon since those iDen users have to go somewhere.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesm View Post
    :-) Both are OFDM protocols, but you can't get gear that switches between them. As an added complication, Sprint/Clearwire is running TDD wimax in the 2.5 GHz band. Almost all LTE development is FDD, so it's even more complicated for sprint as all the analog electronics is different.

    The Motorola and Samsung TDD Wimax basestations currently being deployed have no LTE migration path in them.

    Sprint maybe testing LTE gear as a possibility for the 800 Mhz band once iDen is shut down, but that's not a reasonable path any time soon since those iDen users have to go somewhere.
    Gotcha...

    They do seem to be trying to hustle them off of iDEN with these cross over Sprint/Nextel devices as well as Qchat.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by DougB541 View Post
    Gotcha...

    They do seem to be trying to hustle them off of iDEN with these cross over Sprint/Nextel devices as well as Qchat.
    Right, but qchat basically sucks. They would have done better by using the gear from Kodiak Networks. No need to go through VOIP that way.
  14. #14  
    iDen was not what interested sprint, Nextel's customer base was.

    As for data rollout Sprint has been ahead of the game for years and will continue to be.

    Mikesm, Ill be the first to admit that the definition of "tiers" can be used loosely but Sprint meets every metric that is often considered. They are a tier 1 carrier- no question. They are facilities based and national. They own most of their own fiber and on top of it they wholesale services to companies that are clearly 2nd tier.

    They are not as big as ATT r VZ- but that does not make them tier 2.
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  15. #15  
    Mike, LTE isn't a fomented standard Wimax is. Wimax can do anything that LTE supposely does and vis-versa. Problem with Lte is it will not get bake till the 2011-12 time frame and by then Clear/Wimax should be Nationwide/Worldwide. I know many people expect LTE to win in the "tech war" but its so far behind that the de-facto winner will be Wimax. Btw, VZW talking about putting LTE on 22mhz of spectrum is Comedy. Its like making a one lane highway.


    Quote Originally Posted by mikesm View Post
    Where do you expect Sprint to deploy LTE if not the 2.5 band? It's not like they can turn off the CDMA network and give everyone new handsets overnight? You can't run LTE and WIMAX in the same piece of spectrum. The base stations speak one or the other.

    Sprint doesn't have too many options here, and they kind of scrweed the pooch with the nextel takeover.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Anderson View Post
    iDen was not what interested sprint, Nextel's customer base was.

    As for data rollout Sprint has been ahead of the game for years and will continue to be.

    Mikesm, Ill be the first to admit that the definition of "tiers" can be used loosely but Sprint meets every metric that is often considered. They are a tier 1 carrier- no question. They are facilities based and national. They own most of their own fiber and on top of it they wholesale services to companies that are clearly 2nd tier.

    They are not as big as ATT r VZ- but that does not make them tier 2.
    Different people have different metrics. In my business there is a considerable gap between the number of subs, amount of spectrum, amount of data traffic, number of retail locations, number of base station sites, etc... between AT&T and Verizon and Sprint. The Spectrum assets are wildly in AT&T and VZ's favor, especially if you consider "good spectrum" like 700 or 850, and while Sprint has commodity longhaul network assets, so does AT&T and VZ, plus they have local loops which are MUCH more important for cellular backhaul.

    So in my industry, they are clearly a tier 2 player, just like T-mobile. They just are not in the same league. Read any of the wall street analyst reports on the industry, and they'll all say this.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by runagun View Post
    Mike, LTE isn't a fomented standard Wimax is. Wimax can do anything that LTE supposely does and vis-versa. Problem with Lte is it will not get bake till the 2011-12 time frame and by then Clear/Wimax should be Nationwide/Worldwide. I know many people expect LTE to win in the "tech war" but its so far behind that the de-facto winner will be Wimax. Btw, VZW talking about putting LTE on 22mhz of spectrum is Comedy. Its like making a one lane highway.
    Wow, you should really read some wall street analyst reports. Pretty much everyone has accepted that wimax is limping along and has almost no momentum compared with LTE, and LTE is much more capable transporting voice than wimax in any case.

    I don't know what you think it's comedy that VZ will run LTE in the C block, they've been working on that for sometime and the whole vendor community is aligned with them. Plus VZ holds about 50-60% of the AWS-1 F block that is completely idle (a 2x10 MHz block at 2.1 Ghz and 1.7 Ghz) that is also slated for LTE deployment.

    It's beta vs VHS. Beta is wimax, and VHS is LTE. The outcome is almost certainly the same as LTE as well, esp. when you look at overseas carrier deployments.

    VZ and AT&T are extremely credible players here who don't just have spectrum leverage over Sprint, but enough free cash flow from operations to finance these builds too. They are just too big to overcome for anyone, much less Sprint.

    You could blame the FCC for letting these guys get so big and powerful (Sprint does), but the facts are the facts.

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