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  1. #741  
    I'm sorry to hear that. As the owner of a perfect Pre I can tell you that they are out there. Did they give you the option to keep opening boxes until they found one that was in good condition? In fact, both stores you visited did most likely allow this which would explain the finger smudges. The oreo twist defect is something that many Pre's have right out of the box. If I were you, I'd wait until there is a statement by either Palm or Sprint acknowledging a problem, or confirmation in this forum that the production issues have been solved. It sounds like you are going with the iPhone 3Gs however, which is a fine device. Just be careful with that thing in your pocket or you might end up with some really hot pants. And by hot, I mean on fire.
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    #742  
    Quote Originally Posted by pathymo View Post
    Wait.... the picture you posted.... THAT is the whole "oreo twisting" business? If that's the most severe of it, then some people on this forum are ridiculous....
    Doesn't take any real pressure at all; one-handed, the thing jumps its rails (which are supposed to keep the keyboard sliding up and down instead of side-to-side) with a very loud "clik" ... that sort of thing may not seem like much to you, but what it means to me (and anyone who has built hardware) is a near-term failure of the device. 1mm play left to right is fine; I expect that of moving parts. But 3mm play is *not* what it is designed for, and a few months of it wiggling like that, you've got yourself a gorgeous paperweight. Laugh all you want -- or, better, I'll trade you for yours. Hmm?
  3. #743  
    Quote Originally Posted by pathymo View Post
    Wait.... the picture you posted.... THAT is the whole "oreo twisting" business? If that's the most severe of it, then some people on this forum are ridiculous....
    To be fair, my phone doesn't look anything like OP's. If it did, I'd consider returning it too.
  4. #744  
    Quote Originally Posted by allthewayhome View Post
    Um, why aren't you checking every unit before you leave the store?
    ...
    I am.
  5. Xyg
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    #745  
    Sorry to hear that. My Pre is great.
  6. bistromath's Avatar
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    #746  
    Quote Originally Posted by deadpanwalking View Post
    I'm sorry to hear that. As the owner of a perfect Pre I can tell you that they are out there. Did they give you the option to keep opening boxes until they found one that was in condition? In fact, both stores you visited did most likely allow this which would explain the finger smudges. The oreo twist defect is something that many Pre's have right out of the box. If I were you, I'd wait until there is a statement by either Palm or Sprint acknowledging a problem, or confirmation in this forum that the production issues have been solved. It sounds like you are going with the iPhone 3Gs however, which is a fine device. Just be careful with that thing in your pocket or you might end up with some really hot pants. And by hot, I mean on fire.
    Yeah, they let me look through boxes. I stopped after four. I figured Best Buy must be Palm/Sprint's dumping ground for returned phones.

    And, yeah, I've heard you can roast marshmallows on 3GS's ... maybe I should be waiting a few months until the dust settles on both phones' problems.
  7. #747  
    Yeah mine just froze up for the first time today. Soft reset and it was back to normal. Coming from Win Mo where a daily soft reset is needed, only doing one reset in a week seems pretty good to me. As for the twisting, mine is worse then that, but it doesn't really bother me. Each to his own though-
  8. #748  
    Quote Originally Posted by ken0311 View Post
    The slider issue/oreo twisting issue can be fixed. The screws under the battery cover can be tightened. I've played around with it, and if not every screw has the same tension, you get the twisting issue. If you have a phone that twists, but it has no other issues. I would keep it. It's not hard to fix.
    From what I understand fixing the slider issue in this way requires removing the sticker covering one of the screws and thus voiding your warranty. I'd be crazy to give up the warranty on a phone with so many hardware issues when I don't have to.
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    #749  
    Quote Originally Posted by bistromath View Post
    Doesn't take any real pressure at all; one-handed, the thing jumps its rails (which are supposed to keep the keyboard sliding up and down instead of side-to-side) with a very loud "clik" ... that sort of thing may not seem like much to you, but what it means to me (and anyone who has built hardware) is a near-term failure of the device. 1mm play left to right is fine; I expect that of moving parts. But 3mm play is *not* what it is designed for, and a few months of it wiggling like that, you've got yourself a gorgeous paperweight. Laugh all you want -- or, better, I'll trade you for yours. Hmm?
    Guess its just hard to see it in the pic.


    Did you try a different Sprint store? Perhaps you could find a good one there.
  10. #750  
    Well, #5 looks pretty good (so far). It only has 2 stuck pixels that are difficult to see because they are dim red (green is the worst color to have) and because they are not very near the edge of the screen. I can't see them at all without actively looking for them. The reception is no better or worse than any of the others (still bad). Aside from those things everything else about this Pre seems pretty good. No blotches or clouds (but I haven't had it heat up on me yet). Slider isn't too tight like my 1st or too loose like my 4th. If nothing new develops it looks like this will be the Pre I keep (knock on wood). The warranty date on this one is June 10 so it's older than #3 and #4 but it definitely looks and feels like better quality. It didn't come dirty either which probably doesn't matter but still looks bad.

    And I was right about Walmart being easier to do an exchange with. I was able to exchange #4 with no fuss at all and without them trying to make me feel bad about returning something. When I returned #2 and #3 at the Sprint store (non corporate owned) they made it clear that they felt I was being a whiner and I should just live with the 11 and 9 stuck pixels respectively.
  11. #751  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    Definitely qualifies! Has never had one. Doesn't want one. And is still here heaping sh** on it.

    In the meantime, you fanbois heap PERSONAL ATTACKS. Which would you rather a thread be composed of: discussions about the phone or PERSONAL CRAP???
  12. bistromath's Avatar
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    #752  
    Quote Originally Posted by pathymo View Post
    Did you try a different Sprint store? Perhaps you could find a good one there.
    Two Sprint stores, one Best Buy. More than a half dozen "new" phones, plus four demo phones. The only "good" ones were *two* (not all four) of the Sprint demo phones. The rest all had the problem: two of Sprint's demo phones, seven they tried to sell me (two at Sprint, five at Best Buy), and the one they were selling the guy in the stall next to me at the second Sprint store. This part is actually funny ... when I returned to Sprint with the phone the first time, the lady said, "they all do that" and handed me the phone she was currently setting up for the guy standing right next to me. Yep. She then went in back & brought out two others that were in-store "demo" models that the employees could use. Later, when I insisted on returning it, the tech guy did the return, showed me a "good" demo model and said, "don't listen to the sales people." Other good model: the floor demo at a different Sprint store.

    Love the OS, but all this non-technical garbage is damaging the credibility of the platform, I have to think -- which is a shame, because it truly rocks. IMO the software guys leap-frogged Apple.
  13. #753  
    Quote Originally Posted by bistromath View Post
    Hey Palm -- Sprint and Best Buy are doing their best to drag you down (unless there is more to the picture than meets the eye).

    I'm a long-time ATT customer. Bought the wife an iPhone 1st gen, 1.5 yrs ago. Never bought one for me. When the Palm Pre came out, I liked the UI a lot; played with it in the Sprint store -- webOS makes me *want* to use a smartphone, whereas I merely like iPhone. I liked the openness of the webOS platform a *lot* (I'm a computer engineering prof. & director of the program, I write web apps and real-time embedded systems), and I liked the form factor of the phone a lot more than the iPhone. Love the card-based multitasking, which is much more natural to me than iPhone's UI.

    Anyway.

    So I bought one at the Sprint store. Turns out it was (most likely) a returned model, with the oreo-twist keyboard-slippage problem. (see the picture ... I'd post links, etc. to other people's stories, but PreCentral wisely disallows newbies to post anything remotely useful. Fail.) The Sprint salesforce told me, "all of our Pres do that." I doubted this, but I went away to look into it further. When I returned after talking to others, the tech guy said, "don't listen to the sales people, it isn't supposed to do that." Thank you, The One Honest Sprint Guy: Oscar.

    Went to Best Buy to try my luck there. They tried to sell me a returned phone (had fingerprints on the protective plastic film), which also had the sideways-slippage problem. They *also* said, "all of them do that." I said I'd rather put my name on the waitlist and paid my $50 to do so. That was more than a week ago.

    Got a call today from Best Buy: "Your Palm Pre is in." Went down there, was told they'd gotten 10 in. Seemed to good to be true (they were due July 8th, this is more than a week early). It *was* too good to be true: it was a returned model, replete with finger smudges on the protective plastic and the full-on sideways-slippage problem.

    Three strikes, you're out. Major bummer ... I like iPhone okay, but not nearly as much as I like webOS and the form factor of the Pre. I certainly don't like the iPhone enough to stand in line for an hour -- after leaving Best Buy, I went to the Apple Store. Yep, even today it is still over an hour wait for a 3GS. Why? All you do is plug the thing into iTunes, and it's activated. Why is there a 1hr wait for "here is my credit card, thank you for the cardboard box, now I go home and plug it in" ... ?

    Anyway, I'll swing by the Apple Store tomorrow morning and (hopefully) avoid a line.

    The one good point: there is a Palm Pre skin for the iPhone. That'll be my first download.
    doesn't the fact that so many are returned TELL YOU SOMETHING??

    When I go to Fry's Electronics and see a ton of product boxes with return stickers on them, I steer clear, knowing that if lots of buyers didn't like the item, I'm SURE I WON'T EITHER. GET A CLUE!
  14. bistromath's Avatar
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    #754  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1812dave View Post
    doesn't the fact that so many are returned TELL YOU SOMETHING??

    When I go to Fry's Electronics and see a ton of product boxes with return stickers on them, I steer clear, knowing that if lots of buyers didn't like the item, I'm SURE I WON'T EITHER. GET A CLUE!
    yeah, i follow you, but in the world of consumer electronics there are two big pieces: the software and the hardware, and i gotta say i *love* the software on the pre. it rocks. and, from what i have seen, there DOES EXIST non-crappy hardware. the trick seems to be finding it.
  15. #755  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1812dave View Post
    doesn't the fact that so many are returned TELL YOU SOMETHING??

    When I go to Fry's Electronics and see a ton of product boxes with return stickers on them, I steer clear, knowing that if lots of buyers didn't like the item, I'm SURE I WON'T EITHER. GET A CLUE!
    Oh good! The man who doesn't "need to own a phone to know he doesn't want it" is back to heap his infinite wisdom upon us! Hey guys, his wife hated the phone too! Hey, Dave, could you be a little bit more chapped that you hate the Pre? I don't think your hundreds of posts since launch got that across well enough.
    Oh yeah, did I mention he's never owned the phone?
  16. #756  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1812dave View Post
    In the meantime, you fanbois heap PERSONAL ATTACKS. Which would you rather a thread be composed of: discussions about the phone or PERSONAL CRAP???
    Since you're asking, I would rather the thread be composed of contributions from people addressing the title as to why they are returning their Pre.
  17. DVeng's Avatar
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    #757  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1812dave View Post
    Are you SURE the issue is the Sprint network and not the phone?
    Quote Originally Posted by 1812dave View Post
    If that's the case, buying the Pre at Verizon won't solve the problem.
    I appreciate the interest. I am sure its the network. I enabled the "Roam Only" hack on my phone and when I put the phone in "Roam Only" mode, the phone works great at my office. The problem is that there is just enough of a Sprint signal that the phone doesn't roam unless "Roam Only" is on, but the signal is too weak to actually use for anything. (It fades out and drops calls if I try to make one, and many calls don't cause the phone to ring at all.)

    Obviously, I could keep the phone and just hope that Sprint/Palm don't disable the "Roam Only" hack at a lower level than the GUI, but that still leaves me with poor signal elsewhere without "Roam Only" and I don't want to leave it in "Roam Only" all of the time due to the slow 1xRTT data that roaming allows for. It is also entirely possible that Sprint/Palm could disable the hack on my 31st day and I would be stuck for 23 months.

    If Sprint were to officially support "Roam Only," I would be very tempted to keep the phone. If they were to support it and support EVDO on roaming, I would be begging Sprint to take my money. As is, I think I must return the phone.
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    #758  
    Quote Originally Posted by clipcarl View Post
    DVeng, you may want to try one of the other Sprint phones at your house or try out an Airave signal booster [well that's not what it is technically] before you rule Sprint out.
    Thanks for the tip. Please see my other post for info about why I think its Sprint and not the phone. Short version: Roam Only hack makes it work great for voice, but obviously causes slow data.

    As far as the Airave goes - we did get one about a week after getting the phones and it helped *tremendously* while at home. However, installing one at work isn't an option and we have poor signal issues elsewhere in town as well. (Grocery store, etc.)

    We have excellent Verizon signal everywhere and EVDO almost everywhere, so I think a Pre on Verizon would probably result in a much better overall experience for us.

    I really want this phone to succeed - but reliability is just not there in my particular situation and location.
  19. #759  
    Quote Originally Posted by DVeng View Post
    Thanks for the tip. Please see my other post for info about why I think its Sprint and not the phone. Short version: Roam Only hack makes it work great for voice, but obviously causes slow data.
    ...
    That does not at all rule out the phone. Maybe other phones would get more bars and better signal. Just because the Pre gives you more bars roaming on Verizon just means that you are a lot closer to Verizon's tower. It does not mean that a different Sprint phone with a better radio wouldn't work just fine at your distance from Sprint's tower. Many people here have posted that the Pre's reception sucks compared to other Sprint phones (myself included) so if Sprint's pricing model is better for you I'd suggest checking out a different Sprint phone just in case.
  20. #760  
    Its not Sprint's network -- its the Pre.

    Unfortunately, I came to a similar decision in the end and somewhat reluctantly had to return my Pre a few hours ago. ;(

    I will miss everything about it dearly, with pretty much the sole exception of its inability to reliably hold a signal. The battery could have been better of course, but there are at least some practical work-arounds for that between a turning off some unnecessary services, a touchstone, or even a big third-party battery in the future. I also have a feeling that the signal issue likely significantly contributes to the battery life -- at least in my case.

    I guess what really bothers me the most about the whole thing is that in every other respect, I really think Palm hit the ball out of the park with the Pre given the proper context of it being a 1st gen device on an entirely new hardware and software platform after years of creating almost nothing but relatively minor refinements on their existing platforms. I could have dealt with more WebOS bugs than there were. I expected reboots/resets (which I never had). They exceeded my expectations in every way on the software front, and I think the best is yet to come with the pending release of the SDK, etc.

    I was not plagued with any of the other hardware problems I've seen reported such as the 'bubbles' under the screen, cracks in the plastic, loose sliders or any of the like. My only beef was the radio/antenna or its related firmware -- Only Palm knows where the problem truely lies.

    The signal problems with the Pre were pretty evident to me in the first few days. 24 days later, I can honestly say I've dropped 10 times more calls with the Pre than I have in my entire 11yr+ history with Sprint. I've had dropped calls, garbled calls, missed calls in areas that are hardly 'fringe' -- or at least never used to be for me with my 755p, or any other phone I've owned prior. I got tired of explaining to people why calls dropped, or they kept getting my VM, etc.

    So, if I needed any final confirmation, while I was standing in line at my local Sprint store to return the Pre and reactivate my 755p, I took some final signal readings between the two phones -- Over a 5 minute period with the Sprint tower 1/8 of a mile away from the store with clear line of sight -- the 755p ranged from -62 ~ -65dBm (RSSI) and the Pre ranged between ~92dBm and -101dBm. I also verified that my problem would not be resolved with an exchange based on looking at the two demo Pre units in the store which posted nearly identical readings to mine.

    Anyway, RSSI readings aside -- it was pretty obvious to me over the last 24 days from general use that the Pre in its current form suffers from poor radio performance. Those that aren't seeing it that way must either live under a tower and always travel on major expressways with towers on the mile, or perhaps they are willing to overlook reception since the rest of the package is pretty damn cool, or whatever... Mabye they came from other hardware or carriers with crappy reception and don't notice a difference? Who knows.

    I hope, however that Palm will address this in the future and I'll be able to (re)buy a Pre. The 755p is getting pretty old in the tooth and certainly is lacking in many areas where the Pre shines. I hope that Sprint does't take the brunt of any reception complaints since had I not been a customer of theirs for years and known that their network coverage is good (at least where I live/go) I would think their network was absolute crap if I came to them for a Pre from another provider.

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