WebOS open to hacks?

[Kyusaku]

There's been some topics before about warez, but what about hacks and mods in general for WebOS to improve functionality that Palm might be lagging behind in implementing. Some people have been doing it for Android, but Google didn't make it very easy to do.

According to Lisa Brewster from PreDevCamp San Diego, who is currently at the big Pre launch event tonight in California the core OS is not going to be locked down.

https://twitter.com/Adora/status/2025790237

"Unofficial convo with a palm engineer, they're not locking down the core OS under mojo. Linux hackers are gonna love this. "

[ronlongo]

One thing I hated with the POS community is that installing hacks was rampant. Then people would go around blaming Palm when crazy things happened on their Palm Devices like frequent crashes and data loss.

The only hack I ever installed on my palms was the one that allowed you to tap the title bar of an app to pull down a menu (this was a hack long before it was implemented in POS). This hack had a good rep for being quite stable long before I installed it.

[AdidasNYR]

I was thinking about this and I really think that you NEED to be able to hack this phone to make it successful. Cults form around products that can be hacked and a lot of the times you get some really great mods from it. Tethering for one. Maybe unlocking for use on Verizon?

Would Verizon activate a phone just with ESN and not care what it is?

Im on Sprint anyway 10 years now....

[ronlongo]

Originally Posted by AdidasNYR

I was thinking about this and I really think that you NEED to be able to hack this phone to make it successful. Cults form around products that can be hacked and a lot of the times you get some really great mods from it. Tethering for one. Maybe unlocking for use on Verizon?

Would Verizon activate a phone just with ESN and not care what it is?

Im on Sprint anyway 10 years now....

I know I've read somewhere that there would be problems activating the phone on Verizon. The phone part may work but the data might not without reflashing.

However, let's hypothesize that you can easily activate the phone on Verizon. That raises an interesting question in my head. Will the profile features still work? Who owns and operates the servers for the Profile backup? Is it actually Palm or Sprint? I'm guessing that it's Palm and the backup is via the internet, but I don't remeber this ever being explicitly stated officially.

[palandri]

Originally Posted by AdidasNYR

.... Maybe unlocking for use on Verizon?

Would Verizon activate a phone just with ESN and not care what it is?

Im on Sprint anyway 10 years now....

CDMA phones are locked by each carrier.

[PreInsiders]

If Palm can muster a dev/hacking community even half as strong as that of the iPhones, then I think we'll be seeing some great advancements with WebOS. But with the lack of SDK and general lack of information regarding WebOS and the firmware on the Pre, I don't know how strong or large (or small) the community will be. I wrote an article on this some time ago on my website (see my sig).

[rposa]

Originally Posted by palandri

CDMA phones are locked by each carrier.

Well, kinda..

CDMA phones CAN BE locked with a MSL (Master Subsidy Lock) which can keep the phone from being programmed (re-programmed). However the Government has ruled that the provider must provide it to the customer upon request (or something near that).

But we've also learned from all the Pre ... errr .. Pre release stuff, that this phone isn't programmed on the handset -- it's programmed OTA only. So someone (s) will have to figure it out.

First -- how to change the PRL (so it will use other towers). Second, how to program it "not OTA" (Phone number, SID). Then how to make data services work (usually entails changing a proxy server / dialup settings) and MMS (if capable).

I see the first hack taking one to Cricket...

[jhoff80]

You need more than that, unfortunately. In order to activate an ESN on a line, that ESN has to be in their system.

[deesugar]

Originally Posted by jhoff80

You need more than that, unfortunately. In order to activate an ESN on a line, that ESN has to be in their system.

I can confirm this is true and only Sprint has those numbers given to them from Palm.

[AdidasNYR]

Originally Posted by deesugar

I can confirm this is true and only Sprint has those numbers given to them from Palm.

Im assuming with the iPhone on TMobile its because of the sim card?

[jhoff80]

Originally Posted by AdidasNYR

Im assuming with the iPhone on TMobile its because of the sim card?

GSM like TMobile and AT&T doesn't use an ESN. They instead use the SIM card. So instead of having a list of numbers that they'll only activate those ones (like CDMA carriers- Sprint and Verizon) they can just lock the phone to only work on a SIM card that has their service. That's why an unlocked phone is such a big deal for GSM, and it means absolutely nothing for CDMA.

[jtlapp]

Fortunately the Linux kernel is pretty standard. "Hacking" to the Linux kernel is little more than coding for Linux.

I think "hacking" is a term used for accessing undocumented APIs or APIs that the vendor reserves the right to change without telling anyone. Palm can minimize the hacking by exposing all hardware and WebOS services through documented APIs. The main drawback is maintaining backwards compatibility; they'd probably have to version the APIs.

But the fact that it's Linux underneath should significantly reduce the risk that hacks typically posed for Palm OS.

I think Palm just needs to document and expose APIs for everything. This is a huge undertaking and may be part of the reason for the delay in releasing the SDK (I hope).

[ipsi]

Originally Posted by ronlongo

One thing I hated with the POS community is that installing hacks was rampant. Then people would go around blaming Palm when crazy things happened on their Palm Devices like frequent crashes and data loss.

The only hack I ever installed on my palms was the one that allowed you to tap the title bar of an app to pull down a menu (this was a hack long before it was implemented in POS). This hack had a good rep for being quite stable long before I installed it.

There were some things that simply could not be done without Hacks, such as getting Chinese/Japanese/Korean support on the phone (or pretty much any non-English language working well).

Linux is fairly good with UTF-8 support, and it can happily input stuff like Chinese. Whether that will be enabled or not... Who knows? I really, really hope there'll be a simple solution for it...

[xenophonite]

I hope you are right that there will be low level access to the OS for any developer. The guy who wrote Resco Explorer implied he could not get enough low level access to port it to WebOS.

It seems to be that only developers approved by Palm will even be able to generate traditional binaries. The rest may only be able to do web scripting. Hope I'm wrong with that interpretation.

[jtlapp]

Palm had better expose everything, or they're going to get a bad name and lose developers. They need to do just the opposite to compete with the iPhone.

[rposa]

Originally Posted by jhoff80

You need more than that, unfortunately. In order to activate an ESN on a line, that ESN has to be in their system.

Well ... I'll say it yet again. I activated a Sprint Treo 755p (it was a Sprint branded, Sprint firmware, Sprint radio). ON VERIZON. With the phone's original ESN.

Cricket doesn't care. As long as it's a CDMA phone.

[palandri]

Originally Posted by rposa

....Cricket doesn't care. As long as it's a CDMA phone.

For what it's worth, this is off the Cricket web site:

Transferring Service to Cricket
Transferring Service to Cricket®
If I transfer my wireless number to Cricket®, can I use the cell phone I already have?

You must have a Cricket® phone in order to use Cricket® service. Cricket® service uses a digital network that operates on Code Division Multiple Access (CDMA) technology. There are several different technology interfaces (AMPS, CDMA, TDMA, GSM, etc.), as well as different frequency bands (800MHZ, 1900MHz). We encourage you to visit one of our Cricket® stores or view Cricket® phone models.

Cricket Wireless | Support & FAQs: If I transfer my wireless number to Cricket®, can I use the cell phone I already have?

[atlanta]

Oh boi, im loving this i will get another pre under my cousins contract to have a phone to experiment with and to mess around with getting deeper access to the phone.... I haven't met anyone on the forums that is into programming and stuff .. so if you are contact me on PM so we can talk and try to start a community or let me know if there already is one.

[d0lph1nK1ng]

Will be interesting to watch

[dbarrett5381]

If we can get root access to the device then anything is possible.