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  1. Xyg
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    #41  
    I join Walt in being disappointed that the app catalog isn't more robust this close to launch.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captweez View Post
    You don't think that waiting to see what Apple has is solid advice for everyone but the biggest Palm/Sprint fan?

    It's not the advice he gives...sound as it is...but what motivates it? What new iPhone features has he been playing with these past few weeks that he can't divulge and that will be unveiled next week?

    Wonka: The suspense is terrible. I hope it lasts.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    I join Walt in being disappointed that the app catalog isn't more robust this close to launch.
    How is a comparison like that fair? Especially considering the fact that the first iPhone launched with 0 apps and NO app store.

    Let's not forget that iPhone 3G launched with a brand new app store and just the about the same number of apps... Yet a comparison between the two is fair at this point?
    Palm III -> Visor Prism -> Dell Axim X30 Hi -> HTC Apache -> HTC Mogul -> HTC Touch Pro

    Ev-Do Rev. A Tethered on my TP:
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by nerdtalker View Post
    How is a comparison like that fair? Especially considering the fact that the first iPhone launched with 0 apps and NO app store.

    Let's not forget that iPhone 3G launched with a brand new app store and just the about the same number of apps... Yet a comparison between the two is fair at this point?
    But Palm has an SDK already even if it's in beta state, where Apple didn't have one at the time. The problem would be easily remedied by giving it a wider release. I know they want something more finished before they release it, but I know I wouldn't mind, personally.
  5. Badandy's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by nerdtalker View Post
    How is a comparison like that fair? Especially considering the fact that the first iPhone launched with 0 apps and NO app store.
    How is that comparison fair? That was two years ago.
  6. Xyg
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by nerdtalker View Post
    How is a comparison like that fair? Especially considering the fact that the first iPhone launched with 0 apps and NO app store.

    Let's not forget that iPhone 3G launched with a brand new app store and just the about the same number of apps... Yet a comparison between the two is fair at this point?
    This isn't 2 years ago. The comparison is fair. In the year 2009, Palm's big competitors have robust application markets. If, like many are saying, the success of the Pre and WebOS is predicated on strong 3rd party development, Palm has catch up to do in a big way.

    Palm's app catalog needs be better populated. Let's hope for a quick ramp-up.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Badandy View Post
    How is that comparison fair? That was two years ago.
    What the hell does time have to do with the fact that the Pre is essentially launching in the same state as the iPhone 3G? Answer me that.

    Apps will come as soon as the SDK gets in the hands of more people. Honestly, I have at least 2 friends (and myself) who have applied to get the SDK with so far no response. People have already demonstrated that most apps from the iPhone are essentially trivial to port, all it takes is some time. Seriously, stop crying foul over the fact that there are 40 (some?) apps in the friggin store and not thousands; people don't even have the phone yet.

    If we're really going to play games here, Palm could advertise that it already has thousands of apps. Granted, they run in an emulator, but they're apps nonetheless.
    Palm III -> Visor Prism -> Dell Axim X30 Hi -> HTC Apache -> HTC Mogul -> HTC Touch Pro

    Ev-Do Rev. A Tethered on my TP:
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by FesterTreo View Post
    Walt has a serious issue about Apps.. Pretty sad he doesnt even mention that you can run all of the legacy palm apps. Plus regarding battery life I wonder if he knew about the Google and AOL bug that was stated in another article I posted.
    You're right that he's not providing a complete answer here, but from a certain point of view, his review on this point is the right take:
    1. I suspect that the main target audience of the phone is not expected to be interested in running old apps, let alone old apps that need to be run in an emulator.

    1. A large part of the benefits of an application store in the "ecosystem" view of the current hero phones is that all the phone's apps are in one place, and that users don't have to go hunting around to find them. Classic/PalmOS apps do not have that benefit, and thus do not easily fit in with that ecosystem worldview.


    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt_Mossberg;
    In fact, during my testing, one of my downloads from the App Catalog caused my Pre to crash disastrously -- all my email, contacts and other data were wiped out, and the phone was unable to connect to the Sprint network or Wi-Fi. Palm conceded the catastrophe was due to problems it still has getting the App Catalog to work with the phone's internal memory, and explained that this is one reason it hasn't widely distributed the developer tools.
    Uh oh.
    Uh-oh, indeed.

    Walt's next paragraph goes on to say...
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt_Mossberg;
    The good news is that the Pre's impressive backup system allowed me to quickly and easily get back almost all my data and to restore the phone's connectivity.
    Hunh? If his crashed phone was unable to connect either to the Sprint network or Wi-Fi, how did he get his data back? The backup system backs up over the air to Palm's cloud storage, right? How did his phone or that backup system bring any data back if the phone couldn't connect via either of its only two connections to that cloud?!
  9. Xyg
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowhawk View Post
    Uh-oh, indeed.

    Walt's next paragraph goes on to say...

    Hunh? If his crashed phone was unable to connect either to the Sprint network or Wi-Fi, how did he get his data back? The backup system backs up over the air to Palm's cloud storage, right? How did his phone or that backup system bring any data back if the phone couldn't connect via either of its only two connections to that cloud?!
    Well, the phone is set to back up at set intervals. He reset the phone (selecting the option that wipes all data), and reloaded his data (phone preferences, etc) from the Palm servers from the last backup. His contacts were always there in the cloud, so he repopulated his contact data from those sources.

    And there you go.
  10. noblejohn's Avatar
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    #50  
    On WSJ.com, video (couldnt post link)
  11. brum's Avatar
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    #51  
    profound.

    EDIT: forgive me for my poor conduct, maybe it was the exclamation marks. Welcome to PreCentral forums noblejohn!

    It is true, Walt has got skills. The article is good read fact. It makes me want to hold onto my Centro for longer though, there are a few too many hairs on the Pre for now. too many reviews to read now!
    Last edited by brum; 06/04/2009 at 06:37 AM.
    Palm V → TX → Centro → HTC Legend → TouchPad/Pre 3(UK) → HTC One X → Nexus 4/iPad Mini → Pre 3/TouchPad Go
  12. #52  
  13. #53  
    in persoanl Jiurnal of todays WSJ (section D1) as well as a nice front page pic a referance to the article.
    the article so far is one big comparision to iphone ( I guess saying the pre eats iphone's for breakfast will cause that :-) )
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Anderson View Post
    "But on at least one day, it died in midafternoon, even though I was using Wi-Fi most of that day and not the power-hungry cellphone network."

    Bass ackwards...
    That's old think. Wifi radios draw less power than cellular radios now. AnandTech proved that in this article with the first generation iPhone - it's been the same ever since. It is especially true with CDMA radios due to their generally higher power consumption than GSM radios.
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    #55  
    "There's no easy way to get to the top of a long list or to quickly delete a large group of emails, no keyboard shortcuts, no voice control and no Facebook app. Palm says it plans to add most of these, and notes that the Pre was designed to be updated over the air, without requiring users to plug it into a PC."

    1) There have been some comments made on the email program. I think one of them was by Dieter. That the lag is too long, now according to Walt no ability to delete groups of emails. Does anyone know what role Marc from Chattermail played while he was at Palm. Their relationship ended abruptly, I always thought. I hope Palm listened to the guy while he was there. He really nailed it with Chatteremail. Anyone have the scoop on what happened there?

    2) What Pre was Walt using that didnt have a Facebook app?

    In any case, most of these shortcomings are on the software side and CAN be fixed in time assuming Palm sees the need to fix them. I definitely dont want to get into a situation like I did with old Palm OS where I had to rely on third party apps to do things the phone should have done to begin with.
  16.    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by fdezarra View Post
    "There's no easy way to get to the top of a long list or to quickly delete a large group of emails, no keyboard shortcuts, no voice control and no Facebook app. Palm says it plans to add most of these, and notes that the Pre was designed to be updated over the air, without requiring users to plug it into a PC."

    1) There have been some comments made on the email program. I think one of them was by Dieter. That the lag is too long, now according to Walt no ability to delete groups of emails. Does anyone know what role Marc from Chattermail played while he was at Palm. Their relationship ended abruptly, I always thought. I hope Palm listened to the guy while he was there. He really nailed it with Chatteremail. Anyone have the scoop on what happened there?

    2) What Pre was Walt using that didnt have a Facebook app?

    In any case, most of these shortcomings are on the software side and CAN be fixed in time assuming Palm sees the need to fix them. I definitely dont want to get into a situation like I did with old Palm OS where I had to rely on third party apps to do things the phone should have done to begin with.
    i would hope there's a "Select All" on the email app for mass delete but it sounds like maybe not.
  17. #57  
    The poor 3rd party app support is probably one of, if not the, biggest concerns for me. When the first iPhone came out, that was a big weakness for it, but the other impressive features it offered allowed it to become a very successful product, despite that limitation. With the pre, Palm is offering hardware/features that are roughly equivalent to the iPhone, so the poor 3rd party app support is a major negative. Multitasking is the pre's biggest advantage, but if you don't have many apps available, then you don't have as much of a need to multitask anyway.

    The thing that also concerns me about their 3rd party app support is the fact that it's a closed platform. The upper echelon of hand-picked big-name developers will get access to everything, while regular developers will need to make do with the HTML/Javascript avenue.

    Aside from all that, I'm also disappointed that Palm threw the baby out with the bathwater. The Treo's always-available keyboard, D-Pad, app-specific menu button, and usable list-based app launcher (not to mention the multitude of app launcher replacements which probably won't be possible to develop on the pre because it would require intercepting the finger stroke or glowy button press), were what made the Treo an ultra-efficient and usable, though certainly dated, smartphone. I switched to more advanced (hardware-wise) devices, like WinMo phones and always came back to the Treo for this level of efficiency/usabilty. And I found the iPhone lacking there as well. But now Palm has gone so far overboard in trying to make an iPhone competitor, that they seem to have forgotten about those wonderful usability/efficiency advantages that the Treo had (and still has) over the iPhone (and now has over their own pre).

    Personally, I think that Android still has the most potential to offer the Treo-like efficiency/usability advantages coupled with next-gen hardware and multitasking. Some hardware developer just needs to offer Android in a Treo-like form-factor.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    Aside from all that, I'm also disappointed that Palm threw the baby out with the bathwater. The Treo's always-available keyboard, D-Pad, app-specific menu button, and usable list-based app launcher (not to mention the multitude of app launcher replacements which probably won't be possible to develop on the pre because it would require intercepting the finger stroke or glowy button press), were what made the Treo an ultra-efficient and usable, though certainly dated, smartphone. I switched to more advanced (hardware-wise) devices, like WinMo phones and always came back to the Treo for this level of efficiency/usabilty. And I found the iPhone lacking there as well. But now Palm has gone so far overboard in trying to make an iPhone competitor, that they seem to have forgotten about those wonderful usability/efficiency advantages that the Treo had (and still has) over the iPhone (and now has over their own pre)..
    You can't have the best of both worlds. The always-available keyboard was nice but how would you have that with a 3.1" screen? The device would be awkwardly long. The D-pad is totally unnecessary with a finger gesture interface. Also the Quick Launch wave bar takes the place of the app-specific buttons. No big deal there. I don't see how you see this as less efficient or usable than a Treo when it's clear that multi-tasking with Cards is so much more efficient than the non-multitasking Treo. I think it's more that you don't want to deal with a gesture interface.
    Last edited by EeZeEpEe; 06/04/2009 at 09:59 AM.
    LG TP 1100 -> Sanyo SCP-5150 -> LG PM-325 -> Nokia 1100 -> Motorola v557 -> Treo 755p -> HTC EVO 4G

    Sprint customer since 2001
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    The poor 3rd party app support is probably one of, if not the, biggest concerns for me. When the first iPhone came out, that was a big weakness for it, but the other impressive features it offered allowed it to become a very successful product, despite that limitation. With the pre, Palm is offering hardware/features that are roughly equivalent to the iPhone, so the poor 3rd party app support is a major negative. Multitasking is the pre's biggest advantage, but if you don't have many apps available, then you don't have as much of a need to multitask anyway.

    The thing that also concerns me about their 3rd party app support is the fact that it's a closed platform. The upper echelon of hand-picked big-name developers will get access to everything, while regular developers will need to make do with the HTML/Javascript avenue.

    Aside from all that, I'm also disappointed that Palm threw the baby out with the bathwater. The Treo's always-available keyboard, D-Pad, app-specific menu button, and usable list-based app launcher (not to mention the multitude of app launcher replacements which probably won't be possible to develop on the pre because it would require intercepting the finger stroke or glowy button press), were what made the Treo an ultra-efficient and usable, though certainly dated, smartphone. I switched to more advanced (hardware-wise) devices, like WinMo phones and always came back to the Treo for this level of efficiency/usabilty. And I found the iPhone lacking there as well. But now Palm has gone so far overboard in trying to make an iPhone competitor, that they seem to have forgotten about those wonderful usability/efficiency advantages that the Treo had (and still has) over the iPhone (and now has over their own pre).

    Personally, I think that Android still has the most potential to offer the Treo-like efficiency/usability advantages coupled with next-gen hardware and multitasking. Some hardware developer just needs to offer Android in a Treo-like form-factor.
    Scott - good points, but I think they choose to go for a wider range of potiential clients with the direction of the Pre rather than compete with WM (which the Treo Pro provides that direction) or Blackberry - both offer the usability/form factor you want, just not the OS. The larger market is giving the direction and the Pre is heading that way.
    It's not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change” - Darwin
  20. Minsc's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    That's old think. Wifi radios draw less power than cellular radios now. AnandTech proved that in this article with the first generation iPhone - it's been the same ever since. It is especially true with CDMA radios due to their generally higher power consumption than GSM radios.
    Great article, thanks for linking that. I found especially surprising that the battery life was longer on the iPhone when comparing WiFi to EDGE. That's really saying something since EDGE is quite a bit less hungry than 3G.

    On my old WinMo phones that have WiFi (such as the PPC 6700), the results are opposite - WiFi has a much greater drain on the battery. (you can almost watch the battery meter drop while connected)
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