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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Laxidasical View Post
    Ooops...missed that! In that case, it's a non issue to me unless you can't send/receive while charging via USB. I'm sure that isn't the case though...
    I 100% doubt that they would make it impossible to use the phone when it's charging.
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by solar_plexus View Post
    Its interesting. I am actually pondering the role of the dissenter in a true forum for work. Its healthy to have a negative point of view.
    I think my issue is this:
    There is nothing creative about this post...it really re-hashes everything said before on this board since January. Let the dead horse rest.......

    Well you could say exactly the same thing about a good portion of the traffic on this site.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by solar_plexus View Post
    Its interesting. I am actually pondering the role of the dissenter in a true forum for work. Its healthy to have a negative point of view.
    I think my issue is this:
    There is nothing creative about this post...it really re-hashes everything said before on this board since January. Let the dead horse rest.......
    Maybe you're right. I can't help thinking, though, that one reason so much keeps getting rehashed in these forums is because Palm has been feeding us breadcrumbs for 6 months and even less during the previous year or two.

    In order to stay interested, stay active, AND stay sane, a certain amount of repetition is likely.

    Doesn't mean anyone has to like it, of course. I've certainly done my fair share of griping, so I can't begrudge anyone else for griping about Palm ... or griping about the griping.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    Well you could say exactly the same thing about a good portion of the traffic on this site.
    Very, VERY true
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by clipcarl View Post
    You've heard the good. Now here is an article about what is wrong with the Pre. Actually, the Pre is a great device and Sprint is a decent carrier. But, as always, even good things have a dark side so here's my attempt to throw some light on the things to hate about the Palm Pre. This is a discussion. Please feel free to agree, disagree or add items of your own.

    Opinion - Ten Things I Hate about the New Palm Pre

    1. Sprint - Could any carrier mismanage a phone launch more than Sprint? I don't think so. Only 20 phones at some stores and none at others? You must be joking. If they needed to be firm with Palm and delay the launch past June if Palm can't deliver reasonable numbers they should have. By allowing a launch with such a low number of phones Sprint is asking to be bad-mouthed all over the internet and will create many pissed of hopeful early adopters. Do you like how months ago they promised Premier customers early access to the Pre as a reward for our loyalty? Then did you like how the "early access to new phones" verbiage mysteriously disappeared from the Premier benefits page? I guess they decided my 13 years as a customer doesn't deserve to be rewarded after all nor am I party-worthy. Do you like how they don't give their own employees enough information to pass on to customers so that we can make informed buying decisions? A week before launch and some stores don't know if they'll be selling the phone at all or what customers will have to do to get one. Pathetic. Letting it get out that they only have an exclusive on the Pre for six months is unfathomably stupid from a business standpoint. Who's going to switch to Sprint from their preferred carrier and be a beta-tester for a brand new phone and a brand new OS when they know they'll be able to get an updated version of the Pre and WebOS on Verizon and AT&T before Christmas? Nobody. Especially when people know there will be other less expensive WebOS phones available even sooner to choose from. This really looks to be a no-win scenario in which Sprint finds itself. Sprint get to deal with all of the pain of a brand new Phone and a brand new OS and the other carriers get to reap the rewards in just a few months. Couple that with other bad decisions like backing Wimax when everyone else on the planet is backing LTE and it's possible Sprint may not be long for this world.
    2. Sprint Employees - They generally know nothing, are unhelpful and are often downright rude. The Apple Stores might be for wannabe elitist snobs, but they are always very helpful, very polite and very knowledgeable. Sprint probably can't afford to pay the extra $2 an hour to upgrade their staff so if Palm wants to have customer satisfaction like Apple's they need to have Palm employees in every store that sells their products at all times. (To be fair Sprint employees are in my experience not appreciably worse than those at other phone companies. They all suck.) Apple is in a class by itself here.
    3. Paid-off Bloggers and Reviewers - Going by past history, you'll write glowing reviews of every strength yet you'll somehow manage to miss every glaring weakness. You'll sell out your readers who are counting on you to give an accurate and unbiased review for your own personal gain. You suck in the worst way.
    4. Blog Reading Palm Fanboy Apologists - You claim nothing is wrong and all is great in Palm land despite obvious signs otherwise. Grow a pair of balls (or the female equivalent) and hold the companies to which you give your hard earned cash accountable to actually give you something decent in return. If you are too weak to do that then shut up and get out of the way. Remember this thread about the problems with the Treo 700p? And this one? Despite obvious hardware and OS quality problems (that Palm now finally seems to admit to) you all screamed "No, No! Palm is great!" You people are the reason why Palm didn't respect their customers and released garbage products for so long.
    What do these have to do with why you hate the phone itself? More like, 6 things I hate about the pre...
  6. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #46  
    Giant wall of text

    And from the responses... seems like I don't need to bother getting past that hurdle.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  7. jtlapp's Avatar
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    #47  
    I think clipcarl is just trying to pick up a dip in traffic on the site. Seems to have worked.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    Maybe you're right. I can't help thinking, though, that one reason so much keeps getting rehashed in these forums is because Palm has been feeding us breadcrumbs for 6 months and even less during the previous year or two.

    In order to stay interested, stay active, AND stay sane, a certain amount of repetition is likely.

    Doesn't mean anyone has to like it, of course. I've certainly done my fair share of griping, so I can't begrudge anyone else for griping about Palm ... or griping about the griping.
    Yeah...I think we are all(ok most) getting a bit over done with the waiting and waiting and wierdness coming from Palm.

    I think I am also a bit concerned that this new device has been over hyped a bit and there will be lots of disappointment. Then again who knows....
  9. #49  
    The only one I come close to agreeing with is number 4. The rest are really stretching to find a reason to whine.
  10. #50  
    I see complaints about a carrier and about things that will be addressed in updates. How imperfect was the iPhone when it was released? They STILL don't have copy/paste or MMS! The Pre is still a work in progress. How about holding off on some of the vitriolic spew until the phone is actually out? Or placing it where it belongs. You blame Palm and the Pre for biased bloggers?

    Dude, one word: decaf.
  11. #51  
    Take a deep breath..its a first gen device. It's pretty remarkable for that. I couldn't even justify keeping the first iphone and it took iphone 3g to finally make the move..but just barely. At least the Pre is a keeper on its first try.

    There's nothing wrong being critical and being weary (based on palm's past), but it's really too soon to be that over the top.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by clipcarl View Post
    You've heard the good. Now here is an article about what is wrong with the Pre. Actually, the Pre is a great device and Sprint is a decent carrier. But, as always, even good things have a dark side so here's my attempt to throw some light on the things to hate about the Palm Pre. This is a discussion. Please feel free to agree, disagree or add items of your own.

    Opinion - Ten Things I Hate about the New Palm Pre


    1. Palm - Previously, Palm figured they didn't need to keep their talented engineers and leaders and allowed many of them to leave. The result is Palm now has a reputation for delivering products that are buggy and of poor quality. Remember the 700p (see below)? Remembers not being able to play music or run apps without stuttering or crashing the device? Remember phone radios that sounded awful and dropped connections? Remember bluetooth radios that wouldn't connect to your headset or stay connected? Remember not getting any kind of response from Palm about the issues with that and other Palm models? Remember how it takes forever for Palm to put out an update to fix problems? Remember how those update rarely actually fix the problem and sometimes actually make things worse? Remember batteries that last only half a day? Remember non-standard expensive accessories? Remember how Palm's attitude seemed to always be: "You're having problems with your Palm phone? We say it's perfect the way it is so we won't fix it but hey, we have a new $650 phone coming out soon so you should pay full price for that one and you might get the features you were led to expect when we sold you this one. We promise you'll like it!" Palm's deathwatch has been going on for so long and there is so much negativity associated with Palm now they probably should have changed their name, reorganized and billed it as a completely new company.
    2. Sprint - Could any carrier mismanage a phone launch more than Sprint? I don't think so. Only 20 phones at some stores and none at others? You must be joking. If they needed to be firm with Palm and delay the launch past June if Palm can't deliver reasonable numbers they should have. By allowing a launch with such a low number of phones Sprint is asking to be bad-mouthed all over the internet and will create many pissed of hopeful early adopters. Do you like how months ago they promised Premier customers early access to the Pre as a reward for our loyalty? Then did you like how the "early access to new phones" verbiage mysteriously disappeared from the Premier benefits page? I guess they decided my 13 years as a customer doesn't deserve to be rewarded after all nor am I party-worthy. Do you like how they don't give their own employees enough information to pass on to customers so that we can make informed buying decisions? A week before launch and some stores don't know if they'll be selling the phone at all or what customers will have to do to get one. Pathetic. Letting it get out that they only have an exclusive on the Pre for six months is unfathomably stupid from a business standpoint. Who's going to switch to Sprint from their preferred carrier and be a beta-tester for a brand new phone and a brand new OS when they know they'll be able to get an updated version of the Pre and WebOS on Verizon and AT&T before Christmas? Nobody. Especially when people know there will be other less expensive WebOS phones available even sooner to choose from. This really looks to be a no-win scenario in which Sprint finds itself. Sprint get to deal with all of the pain of a brand new Phone and a brand new OS and the other carriers get to reap the rewards in just a few months. Couple that with other bad decisions like backing Wimax when everyone else on the planet is backing LTE and it's possible Sprint may not be long for this world.
    3. Sprint Employees - They generally know nothing, are unhelpful and are often downright rude. The Apple Stores might be for wannabe elitist snobs, but they are always very helpful, very polite and very knowledgeable. Sprint probably can't afford to pay the extra $2 an hour to upgrade their staff so if Palm wants to have customer satisfaction like Apple's they need to have Palm employees in every store that sells their products at all times. (To be fair Sprint employees are in my experience not appreciably worse than those at other phone companies. They all suck.) Apple is in a class by itself here.
    4. Can't Use the Phone While Using the Pre as a USB Drive - This is a real shocker. When the Pre is connected to your computer as a USB drive for some inexplicable reason you can't use the Phone features. This wouldn't be so bad if you never had to connect to your computer as a USB drive but on the Pre you have to because there is no other way to manage your music, videos, photos and documents. Palm seems to have forgotten that this is a phone aimed at professionals and "prosumers." For many of these folks, missing phone calls means losing money and they are not going to be pleased to find out they didn't land that big deal because they didn't get that important call while they were copying TPS reports to the Pre. Some professionals, including I, never ever turn turn their phone off if they can help it. And I know there are many young people who will freak out when figure out that spending any time managing media on their phone means missing text messages from their friends and being out of the loop. How did this get past quality assurance?
    5. No Visual Voicemail - Anybody who's used Visual Voicemail knows how incredibly useful it is (especially for professionals). Being able to see and organize your messages easily and not having to go through voicemail menu prompts is huge. And being able to listen to messages even when the phone is off (for example on an airplane) is also huge. This feature is one of the game-changing features that made the iPhone so popular. Other Sprint phones have this feature so not having it in the Pre is just plain laziness and stupidity as far as I am concerned.
    6. Questionnaire When Plugging in USB - When plugging the Pre into a your computer's USB port you're expected to know in advance whether you are going to manage media via iTunes, manage media via USB drive mode or simply charge your phone. For an OS that clearly strives to be easy to use this is a definitely a puzzling step backwards. Why should I have to answer a questionnaire when I plug the Pre into my computer? I shouldn't: everything I want to do should just work at the same time. If necessary, the Pre should appear as multiple devices when plugged in so you can do what you want, when you want and without any silly and arbitrary mode switching.
    7. No Alarm Clock or Weather App - WTF? Aside from the phone app those are the two apps I use the most consistently on my phones. I am a professional and I travel a lot and for me my cell phone is my alarm clock. And because I travel so much I often need to check the weather so I am not surprised by it. Yes, I could just jump through a bunch of extra hoops and use the calendar app and reminders as a substitute for the alarm clock and I could use the web browser to get the weather but I shouldn't have to. Nor should I have to wait for (and pay for) a third party app in the App Catalog for this functionality. To me these are basic functions for any modern smartphone that is expected to be used by professionals. Even my Palm V back in the 90's had an alarm clock. How you can have smartphone that's supposed to be a personal organizer without these things is beyond me. There is at least an Accuweather app in the App Catalog but it should come on the device.
    8. No Public SDK - I'd like to believe that Palm is delaying the availability of the SDK because they want to minimize the number of pFart apps giving their device a bad name. Those and other crapware apps give Apple's otherwise excellent App Store a black eye and could do the same to Palm's App Catalog. But maybe that's not the reason. Given Palm's past maybe they figure that withholding the SDK means that fewer people will find out about the problems with the Pre until after they've already paid for it. This dovetails nicely with the virtually non-existent access honest and unbiased reviewers have been given to the phone. Whatever the reasons, not making the SDK available before hand means that there aren't going to be many apps in the app Catalog for a while so if you looking for something comparable to the Apple App Store or the Google Android Marketplace keep looking. By contrast, pretty much as soon as the T-Mobile G1 was available there were hundreds of apps to to choose from and many, many more were available within a couple of months. We don't have to worry about having many app choices with the Pre. And that scarcity means that you can expect to pay more for WebOS apps than those on other platforms for a while. This is especially annoying when you consider the basic features Palm left out of the Pre (see above).
    9. Paid-off Bloggers and Reviewers - Going by past history, you'll write glowing reviews of every strength yet you'll somehow manage to miss every glaring weakness. You'll sell out your readers who are counting on you to give an accurate and unbiased review for your own personal gain. You suck in the worst way.
    10. Blog Reading Palm Fanboy Apologists - You claim nothing is wrong and all is great in Palm land despite obvious signs otherwise. Grow a pair of balls (or the female equivalent) and hold the companies to which you give your hard earned cash accountable to actually give you something decent in return. If you are too weak to do that then shut up and get out of the way. Remember this thread about the problems with the Treo 700p? And this one? Despite obvious hardware and OS quality problems (that Palm now finally seems to admit to) you all screamed "No, No! Palm is great!" You people are the reason why Palm didn't respect their customers and released garbage products for so long.

    PS: After my bad experience with my last Palm product (700p) I actually took the advice of those "Apologists." I threw away my Palm phone and bought a Motorola Q which I had no trouble with (though it wasn't spectacular). I later moved off Sprint altogether for my primary phone to an iPhone on T-Mobile. Sprint really didn't do anything wrong accept allow themselves to be associated with a crappy Palm product. That said, I've forgiven Sprint and Palm and am now going with the Pre mainly because I have enough disposable income that blowing $600 if I made a mistake isn't going hurt me. Has Palm changed for the better? Many signs point to yes. They've clearly decided to rehire some talented engineers and leaders and that's a very good sign. But some signs point to no: advertising the fact that the device syncs with iTunes without disclosing the fact that there is a very good chance that it won't work very soon is more like the old lie-to-the-customers-to-get-their-money Palm. Strictly limiting and controlling media exposure to the new device is more like the old Palm too (though many companies do this). Has Sprint changed for the better? I don't see any evidence of it though their commercials have definitely gotten better.
    One thing I hate about TreoCentral/PreCentral?...

    This post..
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by solar_plexus View Post
    Yeah...I think we are all(ok most) getting a bit over done with the waiting and waiting and wierdness coming from Palm.

    I think I am also a bit concerned that this new device has been over hyped a bit and there will be lots of disappointment. Then again who knows....
    I've felt similarly.

    It's like if you're with some friends and are about to tell a mildly amusing story, but keep getting interrupted. If that happens often enough, and you keep trying to finish the story, the time will come when the suspense has outpaced the entertainment value of the story.

    With the Pre, the longer we waited, the greater it needed to be - both because of the dynamic I mentioned above and because technological and market advancements keep raising the bar.

    It's possible that Palm has effectively spent the last six months ... managing (if we can call it that) our expectations - keeping them from spiraling out of control with too much McNamee or reviews or "We'll show you how much that Apple BITES!"

    It's funny. It could be the same product in either scenario, high expectations or low ones, but it could prosper in one situation and wither in the other.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  14. #54  
    cool, one less person on line to get in the way.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  15. #55  
    what I hate is when people quote extremely long posts with just a simple one or two sentence reply that didn't need to quote the post to get the gist
    Quote Originally Posted by celsian View Post
    What do these have to do with why you hate the phone itself? More like, 6 things I hate about the pre...
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  16. #56  
    So, clipcarl, are you going to buy your Pre from BB or Sprint?
  17. glenada's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chessh2036 View Post
    you make some pretty valid points, like the USB and Visual Voicemail i def agree with, but AT&T is not great for everybody. For me its horrible, and everyone I know that has sprint says its great. And the iphone had a lot of problems the first go around and NO app store, so give the Pre a year and see how well there app store is.
    See how "well" their app store is?
    Current Phone(s): HTC Inspire "4G" & Pre 2
  18. #58  
    One word...tool. ragging on the guy for a grammar issue? poor form
    Quote Originally Posted by glenada View Post
    See how "well" their app store is?
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  19.    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by bkco14 View Post

    ...

    The phone everyone drools over, the iphone, does the exact same thing. While you are syncing your information, your phone is disabled. Once the sync is complete, you can then use your phone normally.
    Hmm, if that's true I didn't realize it. I personally sync my iPhone over the network via SSH because I use Linux so I can't say for sure. But I've never heard anyone say that the iPhone has this problem before.
  20. #60  
    Man, those must've been terrible times...terrible in fact that most of their loyalists are that in fact...LOYALISTS!! Palm couldn't have been THAT bad. Either way, since i'm new to palm products (pre will be my first), Palm will be having a clean slate with me, hehe!!
    Sincerely,

    Dwight Shrute
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