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  1. jtlapp's Avatar
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       #1  
    I'm seeing people over and over use the phrase "There's an app for that" when envisioning the Pre's future. Unfortunately, this phrase is fast becoming a de facto, legally-enforceable trademark of Apple. Our repeated use is reinforcing the trademark and handicapping Palm by tiny bits.

    Palm needs its own catchy trademark phrases. What phrases is Palm currently using? Are any of them catchy? (If so, let's use them.) Can we come up with any phrases that might help Palm and steer us away from reinforcing Apple's burgeoning trade claims?

    Here are some properties I'm thinking we want to communicate:

    * Multiple simultaneous apps
    * Synergy among apps and with the web
    * Web dev skills are WebOS dev skills
    * Unshackled apps and app store/catalog
    * Universal search
    * Non-intrusive any-time notifications
    * Physical keyboard
    * Sexy form, keyboard slider, and fit-to-palm

    Let's use this thread to brainstorm. I don't think we need to decide which ideas to use; I think we'll naturally end up using the best ideas.
  2. #2  
    "No need to Pre-tend...It's finally here"
    Follow Me On

  3. #3  
    i thought they already created -

    "palm pre: the phone for the rest of us."
  4. #4  
    Palm Pre: More cards than Hallmark
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  5. jtlapp's Avatar
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       #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    i thought they already created -

    "palm pre: the phone for the rest of us."
    Google tells me that Apple has been using this for the iPhone and that many other phones are also trying to adopt the phrase. I sure hope Palm isn't trying to push this one. It sounds generic. We need a phrase that we're proud to repeat.
  6. Stihl's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syphon View Post
    "No need to Pre-tend...It's finally here"
    goddamn I love this
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    Palm Pre: More cards than Hallmark
    That's awesome!
    Palm History: Palm III>IIIc>CLIÉ NR70v>CLIÉ TG50>Tungsten C>Treo 650>Treo 700p>Centro>Pre!! 6/5/09
    Phone History: Way too long

    Sorry Timmy, SERO does not work with the Pre.
    If you have an iTouch click me.
  8. #8  
    you dont have to eat KFC to know that the Pre is finger flicking good!
  9. jtlapp's Avatar
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       #9  
    "Deal me an app"

    Just FYI: If we want Palm to adopt a catch phrase -- as opposed to just us using it -- we'll need to avoid existing trademarks like Hallmark and KFC. Loved both tag lines though!
  10. #10  
    ^ Good one. Plays on the whole cards feature as well.
  11. #11  
    Palm Pre: The device that is un-Pre-livable!
  12. jtlapp's Avatar
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       #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtlapp View Post
    "Deal me an app"
    I just realized that this works on multiple levels:

    (1) Concurrent app card metaphor -- you can just add another card
    (2) Easy to pull another app out of the app catalog "deck."
    (3) WebOS development is so easy, web developers can just deal apps out. (I'm assuming that WebOS dev is easy, relying only on web dev skills. I'll try my hand when the SDK goes public.)
  13. DDD
    DDD is offline
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    #13  
    Palm
    Reissues
    Excitement
    Also Known as 3_D
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtlapp View Post
    Unfortunately, this phrase is fast becoming a de facto, legally-enforceable trademark of Apple. Our repeated use is reinforcing the trademark and handicapping Palm by tiny bits.
    Well, actually, there's no such thing as a "de facto" trademark. A trademark is either explicitly claimed by a company, with the requisite trademark symbol, or not. Furthermore, repeated use outside of the context defined by the trademark holder actually decreases the validity of a company's trademarks. Hence, Google doesn't like people using "google" without caps as a generic word for "Internet search." Other examples are "Xerox" to mean making copies, and "Kleenex" referring to tissue paper.

    So, in fact, the more we use the phrase "there's an app for that" (not for commercial purposes, of course, as in advertising a product) the more we harm any attempt Apple might make to trademark the phrase.

    So, I think that for the Pre, there will definitely be an app for this. And an app for that. And an app for everything.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Palm
    Reissues
    Excitement
    Love it!

    I also like something like, "The Palm Pre: keep your head in the cloud."
  16. jtlapp's Avatar
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       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Well, actually, there's no such thing as a "de facto" trademark. A trademark is either explicitly claimed by a company, with the requisite trademark symbol, or not. Furthermore, repeated use outside of the context defined by the trademark holder actually decreases the validity of a company's trademarks.
    I disagree, and I disagree strongly. My best friend supervises the trademarks for a very very large company, which I won't name because that's synonymous with giving her name. I have quite an education about trademarks.

    Explicit filing is not required. All a company has to do is prove in court that the average person off the street associates the trademark with the company's product or service. If that can be done, the company has a trademark, and the courts will protect it at the company's behest. (Has anyone seen an "SM" service mark notation next to the phrase yet? If it's not there now, it will be soon.)

    Also, on the issue of generic trademarks, you are correct that when a term no longer applies to just one product or service but seems to characterize them all, that the term is at risk of becoming generic. However, it is actually very difficult for this to happen in court. Basically, courts will protect the trademark if the company is making a reasonable effort to protect the trademark, regardless of whether it has actually become generic. Xerox and Kleenex are still trademarks even though they already became generic. Apple need merely choose to protect the trademark.

    It will become an Apple trademark because no other company with an IP department will dare waste any money investing in the "There's an app for that" phrase simply because there's too much risk of Apple protecting it and voiding the investment. This phrase will be a de facto Apple trademark for quite some time. The more familiar people are with it, the stronger the trademark will be, even if we common folks use it for other app stores. I don't believe it's in our power to genericize this phrase to the point where the courts won't protect it for Apple.
  17. jtlapp's Avatar
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       #17  
    All I'm saying is that if we want to help the Palm succeed, rather than reinforcing a competitor's tag lines that most off lead people to the competitor, we should come up with our own tag lines that will lead people to the Pre.
  18. #18  
    Palm owes us $$$ for doing their marketing.
    Palm History: Palm III>IIIc>CLIÉ NR70v>CLIÉ TG50>Tungsten C>Treo 650>Treo 700p>Centro>Pre!! 6/5/09
    Phone History: Way too long

    Sorry Timmy, SERO does not work with the Pre.
    If you have an iTouch click me.
  19. jtlapp's Avatar
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       #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eguy View Post
    Palm owes us $$$ for doing their marketing.
    Actually, I think the market does, and if we do a good job, it will pay us back with great phones and a plethora of great apps.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtlapp View Post
    I disagree, and I disagree strongly. My best friend supervises the trademarks for a very very large company, which I won't name because that's synonymous with giving her name. I have quite an education about trademarks.

    Explicit filing is not required. All a company has to do is prove in court that the average person off the street associates the trademark with the company's product or service. If that can be done, the company has a trademark, and the courts will protect it at the company's behest. (Has anyone seen an "SM" service mark notation next to the phrase yet? If it's not there now, it will be soon.)

    Also, on the issue of generic trademarks, you are correct that when a term no longer applies to just one product or service but seems to characterize them all, that the term is at risk of becoming generic. However, it is actually very difficult for this to happen in court. Basically, courts will protect the trademark if the company is making a reasonable effort to protect the trademark, regardless of whether it has actually become generic. Xerox and Kleenex are still trademarks even though they already became generic. Apple need merely choose to protect the trademark.

    It will become an Apple trademark because no other company with an IP department will dare waste any money investing in the "There's an app for that" phrase simply because there's too much risk of Apple protecting it and voiding the investment. This phrase will be a de facto Apple trademark for quite some time. The more familiar people are with it, the stronger the trademark will be, even if we common folks use it for other app stores. I don't believe it's in our power to genericize this phrase to the point where the courts won't protect it for Apple.
    Well, not to venture off into a pseudo-legal argument about trademarks (I'm certainly not an IP lawyer)... I didn't say the trademark had to be filed. I said a company had to claim it, by using the required symbol (trademark or registered trademark). Then, if there's a legal challenge, the holder has to show that it has properly utilized the trademark over time (by using it in the proper context, and by displaying the symbol appropriately), that it has protected the trademark by pursuing legal action against those who've appropriated it, _and_ that the average person associates the trademark with the company (if not, then that's the test for being generic). Because of course that's what trademarks are for--to avoid confusion in the market.

    But, if our using the phrase here in these forums won't hurt a company's trademark (by genericizing it), we certainly can't help it, either. I was really arguing most against the "de facto" part, as if simply by us (or anyone) using the phrase "there's an app for that" when discussing the iPhone or smartphones in general, we could be somehow creating a trademark for Apple, and that's just not true. Only Apple can create and protect its trademarks.

    Pedantic? Absolutely. But then, we're running out of steam in good Pre discussions, so we have to keep things lively somehow.
    Last edited by wynand32; 05/30/2009 at 08:28 PM.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
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