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  1. NathanCCI's Avatar
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       #1  
    Hello everyone,

    Has anyone besides me noticed that there are several changes in the Pre's keyboard layout from the Treo/Centro? When looking at photos I just happened to notice the @ symbol had been moved which prompted me to take a closer look. I've now found seven changes - did I miss any?

    • The "I" key formerly had @ on it, now it has %.
    • The "P" key formerly was used to adjust brightness, now it has the = sign.
    • The "M" key was a comma, now it's a semi-colon.
    • The "period" (between the "M" and Return) was previously a dedicated key, working as period wither the option key was pressed or not. Now it has two uses, primarily as a "comma" and secondarily as an underscore.
    • The "0" was previously a dedicated "0" but now is primarily the @ symbol and you have to press the option key to get the 0. (Probably not a problem because you have to press the option to get the other numbers, unless you're in a field that expects numbers, such as phone number fields in contacts.)
    • The "Alt" key (to the right of the space key) is now a dedicated period.
    • The "Menu" key is now labeled "Sym" - Symbol? Apparently there is no dedicated key to activate menus any longer. You must touch the screen in the upper left hand corner.


    That's all the keyboard changes I've seen. As I understand it the @ was moved to a dedicated key since it's used so frequently. It's nice to have the % sign as it was one of the ones I looked for often, using the Alt key. It will take some "getting used to" the new location of the @ key. As for the removal of the brightness key, I think there's some sort of light sensor built in - hopefully it works well! BTW, the left shift key is now a dedicated key - it no longer has the dual usage of Option+Search, which I assume is replaced by Universal search.

    While it's going to be a slight learning curve, I'm happy for the addition of some often used symbols and I like the idea of the comma being a dedicated key. I tend to use the brightness fairly frequently so I'm hoping the light sensor will work well. What are you thoughts?

    Nathan
  2. #2  
    That's a good summary. I think this has been discussed before, but probably not so compactly. Thanks.

    It will definitely take some learning to get used to these changes, but they all seem like good changes to me (with the possible exception of the missing menu key--I found that pretty handy, not that it will be too difficult to hit the upper corner since they've made it finger friendly).
  3. #3  
    The one thing I've always hated is somewhere from my Treo 600 to the 700p which apparently was fixed with the 755p and now is gone on the Pre (according to the user's manual) is that there was no ~ key.

    That, and I always thought that the 600 handled symbols better. As an example, on the 600, / followed by alt gives %, \, the division symbol, |, and the command bar symbol.

    On the 755p, if you hit alt on any symbol, it gives a whole mess of symbols. It gives the whole list, no matter which you hit first.

    It appears the Pre does it more similarly to the 755p. No big deal, but I always thought the 600 did it best.

    Edit: And I agree that I'm not a fan of the missing menu key on the Pre either, but it seems like they want us using that as rarely as possible, and at least for copy and paste there does appear to be some sort of shortcut as well (looks like maybe the gesture area and C / V?)
  4. noto220's Avatar
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    #4  
    Looks pretty sweet I can't wait to try this phone out!
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan7 View Post
    Hello everyone,

    Has anyone besides me noticed that there are several changes in the Pre's keyboard layout from the Treo/Centro? When looking at photos I just happened to notice the @ symbol had been moved which prompted me to take a closer look. I've now found seven changes - did I miss any?

    • The "I" key formerly had @ on it, now it has %.
    • The "P" key formerly was used to adjust brightness, now it has the = sign.
    • The "M" key was a comma, now it's a semi-colon.
    • The "period" (between the "M" and Return) was previously a dedicated key, working as period wither the option key was pressed or not. Now it has two uses, primarily as a "comma" and secondarily as an underscore.
    • The "0" was previously a dedicated "0" but now is primarily the @ symbol and you have to press the option key to get the 0. (Probably not a problem because you have to press the option to get the other numbers, unless you're in a field that expects numbers, such as phone number fields in contacts.)
    • The "Alt" key (to the right of the space key) is now a dedicated period.
    • The "Menu" key is now labeled "Sym" - Symbol? Apparently there is no dedicated key to activate menus any longer. You must touch the screen in the upper left hand corner.


    That's all the keyboard changes I've seen. As I understand it the @ was moved to a dedicated key since it's used so frequently. It's nice to have the % sign as it was one of the ones I looked for often, using the Alt key. It will take some "getting used to" the new location of the @ key. As for the removal of the brightness key, I think there's some sort of light sensor built in - hopefully it works well! BTW, the left shift key is now a dedicated key - it no longer has the dual usage of Option+Search, which I assume is replaced by Universal search.

    While it's going to be a slight learning curve, I'm happy for the addition of some often used symbols and I like the idea of the comma being a dedicated key. I tend to use the brightness fairly frequently so I'm hoping the light sensor will work well. What are you thoughts?

    Nathan
    My concerns about brightness controls persist.

    If I'm in dark conditions, I don't need the screen to be very bright. In daylight, I need more brightness to compensate for the ambient illumination.

    Sometimes, I wonder if the Pre will think the opposite is true - that in darkness, I need more light, for example.

    Also, what about times that I want to conserve battery life? At such times, I choose to turn the brightness way down and leave it there. I guess I'd have to give up that option.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    The one thing I've always hated is somewhere from my Treo 600 to the 700p which apparently was fixed with the 755p and now is gone on the Pre (according to the user's manual) is that there was no ~ key.

    That, and I always thought that the 600 handled symbols better. As an example, on the 600, / followed by alt gives %, \, the division symbol, |, and the command bar symbol.

    On the 755p, if you hit alt on any symbol, it gives a whole mess of symbols. It gives the whole list, no matter which you hit first.

    It appears the Pre does it more similarly to the 755p. No big deal, but I always thought the 600 did it best.

    Edit: And I agree that I'm not a fan of the missing menu key on the Pre either, but it seems like they want us using that as rarely as possible, and at least for copy and paste there does appear to be some sort of shortcut as well (looks like maybe the gesture area and C / V?)
    On the 755p, the Tilde ~ is an Alt of the hyphen - ...
    “Wolves are the top of the food chain, and when the wolf population is healthy, all other animal and plant populations are healthy.” -- Lois Tulleners
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim View Post
    On the 755p, the Tilde ~ is an Alt of the hyphen - ...
    Yeah, I saw that now but I seem to remember it being missing on my 700p (can't test that since it was returned via Asurion for the 755p). Could just be my misremembering, but I thought it was the ~ or maybe the ^ or something. (Or maybe did an update bring it back?) I don't really know, it doesn't affect me anymore though, I just hope it's on the Pre.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    Sometimes, I wonder if the Pre will think the opposite is true - that in darkness, I need more light, for example.
    Why would it do that? I've only had one other device with a light sensor (the q9c) but it reacts as you'd expect, dims in darkness and bright in bright light.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    My concerns about brightness controls persist.

    If I'm in dark conditions, I don't need the screen to be very bright. In daylight, I need more brightness to compensate for the ambient illumination.

    Sometimes, I wonder if the Pre will think the opposite is true - that in darkness, I need more light, for example.


    Also, what about times that I want to conserve battery life? At such times, I choose to turn the brightness way down and leave it there. I guess I'd have to give up that option.
    In laptop brightness meters, LCD brightness is controlled the way you stated in your first statement. I would expect the Pre to do the same.
    Palm III > Palm V > Palm Vx > (Sprint) Kyo 6035 > Handspring Treo 300
    > Handspring Treo 600 Oct.'03 > Palm Treo 700P May'06 > Treo 755P Aug.'07 > Pre(-) June'09 + TouchPad July'11 LONG LIVE webOS!!!
  10. #10  
    I'm sure theres a setting in options where you could adjust the brightness manually.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    The one thing I've always hated is somewhere from my Treo 600 to the 700p which apparently was fixed with the 755p and now is gone on the Pre (according to the user's manual) is that there was no ~ key.

    That, and I always thought that the 600 handled symbols better. As an example, on the 600, / followed by alt gives %, \, the division symbol, |, and the command bar symbol.

    On the 755p, if you hit alt on any symbol, it gives a whole mess of symbols. It gives the whole list, no matter which you hit first.

    It appears the Pre does it more similarly to the 755p. No big deal, but I always thought the 600 did it best.

    Edit: And I agree that I'm not a fan of the missing menu key on the Pre either, but it seems like they want us using that as rarely as possible, and at least for copy and paste there does appear to be some sort of shortcut as well (looks like maybe the gesture area and C / V?)
    If there's one thing I like about the 755p, it's that it handles symbols MUCH better than older Treos. Much better pressing one key, as you mentioned, to bring up a list of symbols (it's not a mess, there are like 21 symbols, easy to decipher); than to memorize where the ^ or | is.
    Treo 650p --> Treo 755p --> Pre
  12. zeeke42's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter E Kurtz View Post
    If there's one thing I like about the 755p, it's that it handles symbols MUCH better than older Treos. Much better pressing one key, as you mentioned, to bring up a list of symbols (it's not a mess, there are like 21 symbols, easy to decipher); than to memorize where the ^ or | is.
    If you read the user guide, you'll find that the Pre does both. If you press Sym, it brings up the symbol table. If you press a key, it narrows the table to the symbols related to that key.
  13. NathanCCI's Avatar
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       #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by zeeke42 View Post
    If you read the user guide, you'll find that the Pre does both. If you press Sym, it brings up the symbol table. If you press a key, it narrows the table to the symbols related to that key.
    I like that a lot! Very nice.

    As for the brightness issue, I often find myself using my cellphone as a flashlight at night or under dark desks, so being able to adjust the brightness manually is important to me. On another forum someone quoted from the manual on page 186:

    Change Screen Brightness
    1. Open Screen & Lock .
    2. Under Screen, tap, hold, and drag the Brightness slider to the preferred level.
    So there is a way to manually adjust. Not only do I use it as a flashlight, but I often like to darken the screen to preserve battery life, as someone else mentioned. Nice to see a manual adjustment.

    Nathan
  14. #14  
    if the feel of keyboard is like the 755p i will be happy
    @->----
    Palm Treo 755p
  15. #15  
    Thanks for doing that. I know its a different keyboard just never took the time like you did to note the changes.
    Palm M100 => Treo 755P => Treo 800w => Treo 755p => Palm Pre => No more Palm/HP products
  16. #16  
    Looking at it again, I'm thinking my biggest issue is going to be re-training my mind that the backspace key is back where it belongs, above the enter key, as opposed to the ridiculous position on my q9c.



    Yes, that's the backspace key, below the right soft button.

    From BGR, here's a great picture of the Pre keyboard though. I guess their review was good for something.

  17. #17  
    Hated having to go to symbols menu for % _ and :

    I welcome the change. I'm sure having @ as a primary now will help with twitter as well. I wonder if that was their plan all along. Or just that @ is a well used key on the internet.
  18. #18  
    ahhh!! The colon is back on the keyboard!! YAAAAAAY!! Going from my 650-700p-755p-Centro to this new Treo Pro, I wanted to walk into Palm's HQ and strangle someone for taking the colon off the keyboard and putting it in the menu....
  19. #19  
    Anyone who says that the keyboard is hard to type on is a dope. It *looks* even bigger than the 7xx keyboard. Anyone coming from a Centro SURELY won't have a problem. BGR is crazy.
    Palm History: Palm III>IIIc>CLIÉ NR70v>CLIÉ TG50>Tungsten C>Treo 650>Treo 700p>Centro>Pre!! 6/5/09
    Phone History: Way too long

    Sorry Timmy, SERO does not work with the Pre.
    If you have an iTouch click me.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eguy View Post
    Anyone who says that the keyboard is hard to type on is a dope. It *looks* even bigger than the 7xx keyboard. Anyone coming from a Centro SURELY won't have a problem. BGR is crazy.
    I know it's not actually bigger, but it does look a lot like the 755p. I'm really glad to see the smile shape again. What I don't get is hitting your finger on the top lip. It looks like there's lots of clearance.

    Well, the 755p may be the keyboard pinnacle, but I'm sure I'll grow to love the Pre keyboard, especially given the layout improvements.

    You know, I believe Palm really thought about every little detail in the Pre. I (and many of you) may not agree with all of their decisions, but it is evident that they thought about everything. It's little things like making the @ more accessible that make me want to forgive other little things that I disagree with.

    ARE WE THERE YET?!?!
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