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  1.    #1  
    Hey guys. I have an iPhone 3G right now and I'm strongly considering switching to Sprint to pick up the Palm Pre. Before I did, though, I have a couple of questions regarding Universal Search.

    Will the Universal Search be able to locate calendar items? I've seen the emulator videos and all it seems to do is programs and contacts. How is that universal? It doesn't do tasks, it doesn't do memos, does it do calendar items?

    Sorry if this is a duplicate, I just can't seem to find this by googling. Thanks guys.
  2. joelpalm
    joelpalm's Avatar
    #2  
    Nope, no calendar. Sorry.
  3.    #3  
    Then how exactly is it universal? It doesn't search memos, tasks, or calendar. Does universal really refer to only contacts, programs and the four web sites they have?

    That's ridiculous. I was fully prepared to pay the ETF on my iPhone for the Pre, but this lack of Universal Search (despite the name) combined with how awful the app catalog is going to be if you are redirected to a developer's website every time you want to buy an app (as opposed to the central clearing house that is the App Store) is absolutely unbelievable and might actually convince me to get the new iPhone when it comes out.

    The sad part is, Palm had my money. I've basically owned every PDA they've ever released (except the Palm VII) and I love them as a company. I, in effect, had my wallet open to almost whatever they were going to give me, but they NEED to match Apple in those two things: The app catalog and universal search. Everything else about the pre is stellar.
  4. joelpalm
    joelpalm's Avatar
    #4  
    Maybe they meant universal in comparison to other devices that have multiple searches. Maybe they meant universal in the fact that you can search for people in the universe who are on your contact list. Maybe they mean that you can search the universal internets. But to be honest, only Palm knows. My money is on the fact that it searches more than one thing so a nice marketing gimmick would be to call it "Universal Search". Feel free to ask Palm on Twitter why their universal search doesn't work better, they are pretty good about answering.
  5. #5  
    Generally when you search for something, you're only looking for 1 thing. What is the point of showing you 8000 results if only 1 of them is relevant? You can argue that people may want to search for calendar appointments often and that it should be included in the list of places to search by default, but what one user wants isn't always what everyone else wants. And, if you were to include calendar searching in the 'search anywhere' default search places, what priority should calendar searching be given? If there are multiple matches, should it be at the top of the results list, the bottom of the list or, somewhere in the middle (more on this in a second). If 'search anywhere' search gets results from the calendar app, why not just make it search every applicable application by default - I'm sure that just as at least 1 person want's calendars searchable by default, at least 1 person will want one of those other applications searchable too.

    As for result priority. We've decided that instead of having results show up from, say, 5 common places by default, we're gonna have results coming from 500 places. To make matters worse, result priority for each of the apps says to place relevant results at the bottom of the search list. If 10 applications are searched one after the other, what Application_1 calls the bottom of the result list will be different by the time Application_10 adds its results to the bottom of the list. The problem with this is you'll never know where a certain application is gonna add it's results (IE. you can't just flick to the bottom of the results list to find calendar searh results) and then you WILL have to look through the search results to find what you're looking for.

    Hopefully you've kept up with me so far. I'm pretty sure that I read (or heard in a video) somewhere that developers would be able to make their apps searchable (I may have imagined the whole thing.) By that I don't mean make their apps show up in the programs listing when you do a search, but have stuff related to the app be searchable. Like, say, i made my own contacts app, then my app would be able to provide results to the 'search anywhere' script/program. If i did in fact not imagine this, then that's what they meant by universal. [Now that I think about it, it was when Palm were demoing the phone, they were on the search screen and someone asked something like "i noticed google and wikipedia on there, will the user be able to search other places?"]

    Anyway, you can search once you're inside the calendar application, and i think that's a much better implementation that cluttering up the 'search anywhere' search feature with a bunch of superfluous results. Cuz really, how useful is a search feature if you're gonna have to search through your search results to find what you're looking for?
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by ellianth View Post
    Generally when you search for something, you're only looking for 1 thing. What is the point of showing you 8000 results if only 1 of them is relevant? You can argue that people may want to search for calendar appointments often and that it should be included in the list of places to search by default, but what one user wants isn't always what everyone else wants. And, if you were to include calendar searching in the 'search anywhere' default search places, what priority should calendar searching be given? If there are multiple matches, should it be at the top of the results list, the bottom of the list or, somewhere in the middle (more on this in a second). If 'search anywhere' search gets results from the calendar app, why not just make it search every applicable application by default - I'm sure that just as at least 1 person want's calendars searchable by default, at least 1 person will want one of those other applications searchable too.


    The simple way to do that is to simply allow you to specify what you want to search with the ones included now showing up as default. They could add a check box for calendar and email and the problem is solved.

    Fact is though it is pretty obvious that the OS is in its infancy. It is also obvious why the phone didn't release earlier, it simply wasn't ready for prime time. That is why you only saw canned shots with only the Palm people touching the device because it was probably all scripted.

    Regardless the pre is a good device despite the few blunders, just like the Iphone is a good device despite Apple's mistakes.

    So OP, pick the one you like the best but don't get to riled up over something that really shouldn't be much of an issue. Windows mobile has one of the best app catalogs of all the phones and it uses a similar system.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    The simple way to do that is to simply allow you to specify what you want to search with the ones included now showing up as default. They could add a check box for calendar and email and the problem is solved.

    Fact is though it is pretty obvious that the OS is in its infancy. It is also obvious why the phone didn't release earlier, it simply wasn't ready for prime time. That is why you only saw canned shots with only the Palm people touching the device because it was probably all scripted.

    Regardless the pre is a good device despite the few blunders, just like the Iphone is a good device despite Apple's mistakes.

    So OP, pick the one you like the best but don't get to riled up over something that really shouldn't be much of an issue. Windows mobile has one of the best app catalogs of all the phones and it uses a similar system.
    Turning on and off which applications get to add stuff to the search results would be useful, and if palm plans to make other applications be able to provide results they better implement that feature.

    I still don't see why people don't want to just open the calendar app and search from there. You're gonna have to open up the calendar app to view the full search result anyway. What difference does it make if you open then search vs search then open?

    Personally i think the windows mobile's old way of doing applications was superior. Then there is no 1 company that gets to say what apps I can and can not have on my device.

    Time for me to go to bed. Night people .

    @original poster, get a pre! If you don't like it donate it to me, cuz I'm not allowed to have one :'(. I just wanna play with it :'(
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by ellianth View Post
    And, if you were to include calendar searching in the 'search anywhere' default search places, what priority should calendar searching be given?
    The priority you set, of course. Mac Spotlight (on the desktop I'm speaking) does an admiral job of this. If it finds matches, you can choose how the results will be ordered. First contacts, then appointments, and so on. I think being able to type someone's name ("John Smith") and the phone to show you his contact info and any calendar appointments that mention his name in it would be really useful, and not hard to do considering the iPhone will do it and still retain its simplicity.


    Anyway, you can search once you're inside the calendar application, and i think that's a much better implementation that cluttering up the 'search anywhere' search feature with a bunch of superfluous results. Cuz really, how useful is a search feature if you're gonna have to search through your search results to find what you're looking for?
    Quote Originally Posted by ellianth View Post
    I still don't see why people don't want to just open the calendar app and search from there. You're gonna have to open up the calendar app to view the full search result anyway. What difference does it make if you open then search vs search then open?
    The difference is my above example. That example aside, however, I did not realize that one could search calendar while in the application, so I'm really glad you just told me. I can definitely handle the appointments not being in Universal Search if I can just search in the calendar app. I just thought calendar appointments wouldn't be searchable at all and I'm greatly relieved.

    Personally i think the windows mobile's old way of doing applications was superior. Then there is no 1 company that gets to say what apps I can and can not have on my device.
    I must disagree here. Apple has pulled, what, some fart apps initially? A VoIP program before ATT's stance on the feature was known? The vast majority of apps make it to the store, and I think the advantages of being able to have a uniform rating and purchasing system greatly outweigh some vague notion of a company acting as Big Brother. We'll have to disagree on this one, but thanks for the input.

    Time for me to go to bed. Night people .

    @original poster, get a pre! If you don't like it donate it to me, cuz I'm not allowed to have one :'(. I just wanna play with it :'(
    Now that I know I can search calendars, I most likely will stick with my plan to get a Pre. My ETF w/ ATT is $125 and the Pre is cheaper than the iPhone I would buy if I stayed with ATT by $100 so I'm pretty much paying $25 to get a whole different type of experience. As of now my big hesitation is the app catalog and also how I will be able to get iCal on my mac and Address book to constantly stay in sync (using a combo of CalDav and Google synchronization). I might just have to scrap using those apps on my Macbook, but I do like them knowing I have a local store of all my data that can be used offline. I guess we'll see...

    Sorry for the long post.
  9. Goyena's Avatar
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    #9  
    I use FindHack in my Treo 600 (still in service!!!). There are three settings for search: all apps, only desktop apps and opened app. With the zillion apps (ok, I only have 24 MB memory) I have, I don't use the first one - it works well, but the results are pretty irrelevant.

    Faster are the last two options...did I put "eggs, milk" in a To Do or a memo?

    Check out the InvisibleMan videos for an example of "local" text search in the memos application.
  10. Frjps's Avatar
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    #10  
    I agree that the "Universal Search" is really not a universal search. If each program can have a search, then why not include that functionality in the universal search? This is how it was on the old Palms & it worked wonderfully.

    And why no search in the Calendar app? I'd never want to search for a calendar item????

    For such a great device in other respects, they really dropped the ball on somethings. I don't get it.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by joelpalm View Post
    Nope, no calendar. Sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by joelpalm View Post
    Maybe they meant universal in comparison to other devices that have multiple searches.
    Geez, even my Treo 600 did universal calendar searches. Heck, my Palm IIIx did universal calendar searches. "Universal" in that one search looked at all the apps on my device. This is a tremendous step backwards.

    I am becoming more amazed everyday, not by what the Pre does, but by what it doesn't do. Palm has made some truly brain-dead decisions.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Badandy127 View Post

    I must disagree here. Apple has pulled, what, some fart apps initially? A VoIP program before ATT's stance on the feature was known? The vast majority of apps make it to the store,
    Actually, you have no idea what apps don't make it to the app store. You have some idea what apps were pulled, but if they never got past Apple in the first place, you'll never know about it. I suspect there are quite a few apps that never got there because AT&T didn't want them clobbering their network, or because the required OS support that Apple was unwilling to provide (look at all the apps the require you to jailbreak your iPhone in order to work).
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by frjps View Post

    And why no search in the Calendar app? I'd never want to search for a calendar item????
    I hope you are mistaken, some other posters in this thread said otherwise. What's the final verdict on this?


    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Actually, you have no idea what apps don't make it to the app store. You have some idea what apps were pulled, but if they never got past Apple in the first place, you'll never know about it.
    Look, I know the whole censored App Store is a good anti-iPhone talking point to spew, but those of us who actually have iPhone's really don't care as much as everyone else does. The developers of apps, if they get denied from the app store, would raise hell about it, and they often do. It just doesn't happen that much, and a couple of fart apps not making to the App Store (they're there now) isn't a big deal. Hell, NetShare (which provided free tethering) probably knew they'd get pulled, their app was clearly in violation of the terms of use. The point is, the "censorship" really isn't an issue and if 1 out of every 20 ebook readers doesn't make it, it's not a huge deal for the consumer. Besides, it doesn't seem to be stifling creative output.
  14. #14  
    I thought about this and I can't think of a way to set priority. How do you do it in spotlight? As I explained in my example, when 1 app provides results to the search script what that app thought was the top or bottom of the result list won't be the top or bottom if an app provides results AFTER it and says, "put my results at the top (or bottom)"

    I thought I saw invisible man searching in the calendar app once. I went back to look at his video but everything is set to private. I'm not 100% sure you can search in the calendar. Someone who's seen all his videos correct me please.

    Apple also denies apps for stupid reasons like "we plan to implement a similar application sometime in the future." Which is a load of f*ckery because as a developer you have no way of knowing what they plan to implement until you've wasted time developing your app and submitting it to them. Hey, if 1 application that hasn't broken any rules gets denied then censorship IS an issue. Who cares if there's already 100 other ebook readers? If this one is any good then it should be in the app store, who's to say that this application wouldn't dethrone all the other ebook applications?
  15. #15  
    Don't panic. I am sure this will be added soon. A lot of features will be added by 3rd party applications and Palm updates. Remember this is the first release here!
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  16.    #16  
    So, Paladin, are you saying there is no calendar search (even from within the app and not through "universal") in the first release? I just wanted some confirmation...
  17. #17  
    What about in email? Does the pre have email search somewhere?
  18.    #18  
    Apparently not, from the reviews I've read.

    My dad's 4 year old 650 searches everything, and my current iPhone will once 3.0 comes out. Why not the Pre? Search is important, and, if they're going to tout it, they should give it access to more than two things...
  19. #19  
    VisorPhone Clone
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  20. #20  
    This is a huge negative for WebOS. Shocking that they omitted such an obvious functionality!

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