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  1.    #1  
    This was brought up a while back (in the day before yore, well Feb actually) but I still have my reservations and worries.

    If anyone understands the file system at play here, you understand why I am even posting this. But, I hope Palm is doing enough to protect developers and their apps from turning into a free for all. Even the iPhone (supposed to be a protected system) has every single one of its IPA files available by some nefarious means other than the App Store.

    A Warez community for the Pre might just be killer to the entire community. If a developer thinks they shouldn't commit time, effort, money, etc. for coding purposes then WE lose out on the possibility of quality applications. I am hoping Palm has really taken into consideration the ramifications of the languages they are using and how they should be responsible for helping devs keep it protected.

    For WM, Palm, BB, iPhone, G1 etc... the warez community is there and it hurts the coders plain and simple. Trials are always the best route for developers (full versions without trials is idiotic IMHO, hence the actual need once in a while for warez... temptation is ALWAYS lurking though) and on the flip side, I hope Pre Apps are reasonably priced as well (nothing over 10 bucks is probably the best marketing scheme).

    But, If my guesses are right, I can see the ability to hack this thing wide open with a fair amount of ease (and not for the "good" reasons).
  2. #2  
    Well, like you said, there are simple ways to download any app freely if you have a jailbroken iphone. I think it just comes with the territory. There will always be some broke/cheap/bored people who will warez things rather than pay for them. I used to use bootleg copies of Photoshop before my work bought me a copy because I couldn't afford the real thing so I'm not claiming to be totally innocent of this.

    I think for the most part people still buy iphone apps because it's simpler, safer for your device, and the honest thing to do. There will always be a segment who can't or won't pay for something and usually those guys weren't gonna be sales anyway so I don't think the loss is too bad. The rest of us gladly pay for good apps because the developers deserve to be paid and it encourages updates.
  3. #3  
    There seem to be some significant software companies on board with the Pre. I doubt that would be the case if it wasn't possible to protect the code.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  4. #4  
    There really isn't anything they can do to stop it. Unfortunately it is par for the course these days regardless if your system is open or closed, it will be hacked and people will do stuff you don't want them to do.
  5. TomD's Avatar
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    #5  
    Sounds like this belongs in "webOS Development".

    We sure are keeping those admins hopping aren't we. They keep consolidating and we keep proliferating
    Tom
    Pilot Prō --> M100 --> Trēō 600 --> Trēō 700p -- > Prē
  6.    #6  
    Oh believe me, I know there is going to be a Pre Warez Scene... it's going to happen.

    I also think Meyer makes an excellent point, some of this guys onboard are big timers, if Palm couldn't at least ATTEMPT to act like they could protect code, they probably wouldn't be around for this.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomD View Post
    Sounds like this belongs in "webOS Development".

    We sure are keeping those admins hopping aren't we. They keep consolidating and we keep proliferating
    Meh... that forum gets zero traffic. This thread was kind of here to educate...

    Again, SS means threads go where they will... 3-4 instances of the same topic can be had at any time on the main page. It is what it is... I feel like I need a herring for TomD everytime I post... at least to keep you busy.
  8. #8  
    this wouldn't be an issue if apps were a reasonable price, but you will see that apps will be expensive and thats why people will do it as soon as possible. I read that the Clasic app is to cost $30 which at that price I hope that warez takes full advantage of it. I mean comon we hear that develeopment for webos is extremelly easy and then slam huge prices for applications. Once developers start being realistic that's when this will not be as big of an issue.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkotoric1 View Post
    this wouldn't be an issue if apps were a reasonable price, but you will see that apps will be expensive and thats why people will do it as soon as possible. I read that the Clasic app is to cost $30 which at that price I hope that warez takes full advantage of it. I mean comon we hear that develeopment for webos is extremelly easy and then slam huge prices for applications. Once developers start being realistic that's when this will not be as big of an issue.

    Instead of stealing it like a twit you can develop it for yourself if it is so easy.
  10.    #10  
    30 bucks is just insane IMO. I probably just won't buy it... I have a feeling astraware will make/port their iPhone versions: iPhone Games and iPod touch Games from Astraware

    Yes, I know, I am being lame... Classic for games? but you can clearly see that I am in the minority for POS apps.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkotoric1 View Post
    this wouldn't be an issue if apps were a reasonable price, but you will see that apps will be expensive and thats why people will do it as soon as possible. I read that the Clasic app is to cost $30 which at that price I hope that warez takes full advantage of it. I mean comon we hear that develeopment for webos is extremelly easy and then slam huge prices for applications. Once developers start being realistic that's when this will not be as big of an issue.
    Well, in all fairness, I'm pretty sure that app is a bit more extensive than some of the Javascript ones we're gonna see. I think they got special permission to access the hardware at a lower level than most apps will be able to.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkotoric1 View Post
    this wouldn't be an issue if apps were a reasonable price, but you will see that apps will be expensive and thats why people will do it as soon as possible. I read that the Clasic app is to cost $30 which at that price I hope that warez takes full advantage of it. I mean comon we hear that develeopment for webos is extremelly easy and then slam huge prices for applications. Once developers start being realistic that's when this will not be as big of an issue.
    Classic is certainly not like the majority of the apps that will be available. It surely required native code. Ie, it was not of the easy variety. $30 doesn't seem too out of line for it to me, given its capabilities.

    But I agree that cheap apps is the way to prevent the masses from trying to find free solutions. If you only have to pay a few dollars to get an application, you're likely to do it.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by neodorian View Post
    Well, in all fairness, I'm pretty sure that app is a bit more extensive than some of the Javascript ones we're gonna see. I think they got special permission to access the hardware at a lower level than most apps will be able to.
    I have a hunch on how it was coded.

    Another method developers can use is the ability to Call Home. But what happens when you are out of area of cellular service? No registration check possible... Boooooo
  14. #14  
    PalmOS apps were/are possibly the easiest apps ever the crack, you can even do it on the PalmOS device itself without the need for a PC using Bird. Regardless of that fact, PalmOS has one of the highest (if not the highest) amount of apps available for handheld devices.

    I don't think the minority who crack apps really make that much difference in terms of a developer's target devices, they will go where the biggest return on investment is for creating an app.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Pooh View Post
    Even the iPhone (supposed to be a protected system) has every single one of its IPA files available by some nefarious means other than the App Store.

    A Warez community for the Pre might just be killer to the entire community. If a developer thinks they shouldn't commit time, effort, money, etc.
    You've just disproven your own point. Warez will exist, but they will not kill anything. The app store has been hugely successful for Apple as well as 3rd party devs despite the piracy. Just like big movies make billions despite the fact that they are pirated. If it can be viewed, it can be pirated. The important thing is to make sure that there is a good experience for the legitimate user by not putting in obtrusive and crippling DRM. I've actually ended up pirating software that I purchased legitimately because the DRM system on it was broken, but the pirated version didn't have any DRM. Palm better not make the same mistake by allowing their desire to secure the app to interfere with the end users experience.
  16. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #16  
    IF Palm's paid apps follow a similar trail as the iPhones, with most of them being $1 to $5 with very few, and typically only the most advanced and robust, ones being over that then I think the warez community which is inevitable isn't going to be extremely strong. The reason for this is I think people are FAR more willing to pay a dollar or five here and there for a program they're legitimately going to get some good use out of without going through the trouble of trying to find a site to get the warez copies, deal with the potential virus's, and find one that actually WORKS.

    This changes if most apps are in the $10-$30 dollar range because it starts getting to the point where even average users are going "Is this REALLY worth that much?" Its at that point backlash against the developers begin and people start rationalizing that they want the app, but they sell it for WAY to much, so its their fault for over charging as to why they're going to grab it free.

    Keep things relatively low priced and I think it'll preempt a lot of the warez things from getting very out of hand.
  17. #17  
    I mean I don't use many apps, on my current phone I only have SplashMoney and Slingplayer but they are both fairly expensive apps which I have paid for both.
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by neodorian View Post
    Well, in all fairness, I'm pretty sure that app is a bit more extensive than some of the Javascript ones we're gonna see. I think they got special permission to access the hardware at a lower level than most apps will be able to.
    Quote Originally Posted by asforme View Post
    You've just disproven your own point. Warez will exist, but they will not kill anything. The app store has been hugely successful for Apple as well as 3rd party devs despite the piracy. Just like big movies make billions despite the fact that they are pirated. If it can be viewed, it can be pirated. The important thing is to make sure that there is a good experience for the legitimate user by not putting in obtrusive and crippling DRM. I've actually ended up pirating software that I purchased legitimately because the DRM system on it was broken, but the pirated version didn't have any DRM. Palm better not make the same mistake by allowing their desire to secure the app to interfere with the end users experience.

    I didn't disprove my point... which you must have missed. But here are the Cliff notes... I am worried that the WebOS uses such simplistic coding that EVERYTHING is open for fairplay (i.e. code can be taken and edited VERY easily) even for novices. I don't know about you, but Jailbreaking an Phone isn't something everyone can do... SSHing into your phone (even with full step by step instructions) can leave you with a borked phone.
  19. #19  
    I didn't think that you could hack iPhone's because they are the best phones on the planet and the most secure because Mac OS is the most secure OS ever created.

    /sarcasm

    Seriously though, how can the apps be hacked if they are linked to your Palm profile?
    Palm History: Palm III>IIIc>CLIÉ NR70v>CLIÉ TG50>Tungsten C>Treo 650>Treo 700p>Centro>Pre!! 6/5/09
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    Sorry Timmy, SERO does not work with the Pre.
    If you have an iTouch click me.
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eguy View Post
    I didn't think that you could hack iPhone's because they are the best phones on the planet and the most secure because Mac OS is the most secure OS ever created.

    /sarcasm

    Seriously though, how can the apps be hacked if they are linked to your Palm profile?
    Ability to sideload apps unlike the iPhone.
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