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  1. 1414H77's Avatar
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       #1  
    I have an iPhone 3G and had the original iPhone, and, while happy with them, I am bored and seriously considering the Pre. I am having problems, though, making the jump when I line up the pros and cons. Here's my take below. Tell me if I have it right or there are other reasons I am missing that I should consider. I need so more Pre pros to push me over the edge so I can camp out at the Sprint store.

    Favors iPhone:
    1. Storage- 16 gig (or 32 rumored on new) versus 8 on Pre- Just music and contacts take up 5.4 gig on present iPhone- leaves very little room on Pre for apps, data, etc. since it only has about 7 available.
    2. Touchscreen- when wanting to type on screen this is available on iPhone. Not available on Pre. (I know- someone will make an app for the Pre to do this- but this is not something that is sure to happen, or if so, when). Pulling out the keyboard every time I want to type a web address without an option to just do so onscreen seems annoying.
    3. Visual voicemail- Great on iPhone- apparently not available on Pre. This is a nice feature.
    4. Use of phone/email and/or web at same time- Can do on iPhone. Cannot do on Pre- on the CDMA Pre can't be on phone and surfing at same time.
    5. Ability to expand coverage footprint- Sprint is in poor financial condition and lacks the resources presently to invest in its networks that AT&T and Verizon possess. While it is going into WIMAX, it will be a long time (and Pre can't use anyway).
    6. App Availability- Lots of apps available now, plus worldwide presence of iPhone draws lots of new apps.
    7. Rural coverage- Far better with AT&T (but see Favors Pre item below).
    8. Mac Syncing- Ability to sync natively with Mac without using “cloud” (however, see Unclear item below).
    9. Proven Nature of Device- Pre is a 1.0 device (and still at this point vaporware until we get to see it in real life), iPhone now in 3.0 testing- Will the Pre work great on 1.0 or be full of bugs? I have the iPhone 3.0 beta and it works great.
    10. Grief from wife- If I line up for the Pre I'll get the same grief I got when lining up for the iPhone about why I waste our money on new toys.
    11. 1900 MHz coverage of Sprint does not penetrate as well into buildings- Much of AT&T's network is in the lower cellular band when much more easily goes into buildings.
    12. Apple has the cash to continue to grow the line and innovate- Palm on life support. I know, some will say Apple has not really innovated.
    13. Use of phone while on usb charging- Can do on iPhone- can't on Pre (but see Unclear).

    Favors Pre:
    1. Multi-tasking.
    2. Qwerty slide-out keyboard- it would be nice to have.
    3. Rural coverage- Poor with Sprint, but get to roam on Verizon/ALLTEL who have very good rural coverage, especially here in the Southeast.
    4. 3G roaming- when out of Sprint market, can 3G roam on Verizon/ALLTEL- most of Verizon's network is now 3G, even in rural areas. A big plus.
    5. Boredom- Ready for New Geek Toy- I am getting bored with iPhone- new need toy. Pre would be it.
    6. Grief from wife- The grief passes fast.
    7. Wireless induction charging- This would be nice, especially when it is available in the car.
    8. Sprint and Pre are the underdogs- Underdogs usually work hard to prove they are better.
    9. Wireless plans cheaper on Pre (but there are rumored AT&T pricing cuts coming).




    Unclear:
    1. Mac syncing- Sprint tells me Pre won't sync to the Mac- but will be Mark Sync available. Probably not a big deal- I sync through Exchange Server anyway.
    2. iTunes music- how will I import them to Pre?
    3. Will Palm survive to support the Pre and update?- Will Palm be around several years from now? Unless the Pre is a huge success they are on life support now. Even with a Pre success they are in such a deep financial hole they are a hobbled company.
    4. Lots of legacy Palm Apps- But How Long to Update to Run on Pre Natively Without Emulation?
    5. Sound level and quality on Pre versus iPhone- The iPhone's sound quality on the phone is good, but the sound level is way too low, both on the phone and speakerphone. It really is a shortcoming compared to Blackberry phones which are far louder. Unknown what the Pre's output level and quality will be.
    6. Video capability- iPhone rumored to have it in new iPhone in June, Palm says it is not in the Pre, but hints it will be coming.
    7. Use of Pre while wireless charging- Can you use the Pre to talk while on wireless induction charging?
    8. Phone quality of Pre- unknown.
    9. Music store for Pre- how good it is as compared to iTunes?
    10. Music syncing- How will I sync it with my computer music since Mac is not supported?

    Reasons Given for Pre that Aren't Reasons:
    1. Sprint is going 4G- meaningless because the Pre can't handle 4G (at least that we know).
    2. “Sprint has much faster 3G and a better network in general than AT&T”- I hear this claim a lot. In my experience so far, AT&T's network in many places (and here in Carolinas) has been great. Plus I routinely get 1.3 to 1.7 speeds on downloads on AT&T on iPhone. AT&T is rapidly expanding its 3G coverage. Hardly ever have dropped calls on AT&T. Others in other markets might have a different experience, so I could see how this item could be different for them.
  2. #2  
    Instead of tiring yourself out with what looks good on paper (and another redundant comparison)..here's a simple solution:

    Go buy a Pre and try it out. You got plenty of time to return it. You have nothing to lose here and you'll get all your questions answered.
  3. #3  
    A lot of your points are really ridiculous. If you want the Pre, get it. If you think having a physical keyboard is annoying or are scared that Palm is poor, or that Sprint is closing then don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hbg View Post
    2. “Sprint has much faster 3G and a better network in general than AT&T”- I hear this claim a lot. In my experience so far, AT&T's network in many places (and here in Carolinas) has been great. Plus I routinely get 1.3 to 1.7 speeds on downloads on AT&T on iPhone. AT&T is rapidly expanding its 3G coverage. Hardly ever have dropped calls on AT&T. Others in other markets might have a different experience, so I could see how this item could be different for them.
    Uh... How is this not really a reason? It's a proven fact that Sprint is faster tha AT&T on 3G. This is a reason set in stone. Gizmodo even did a test. If you think AT&T has been great, then when you try Sprint you'll sell they're 2x better.
  4. #4  
    hbg that's a lot of research for a phone... but the reason anybody would get a Pre will be none of the above.

    Better to go with "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts." - or whatever the correct saying is.
  5. #5  
    N/M
  6. 1414H77's Avatar
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       #6  
    The trying it suggestion is a good point. Do you have a return period?

    As to other comments, sorry you don't analyze things the same why I do and think my process is stupid. However, I am honestly asking for real, constructive pros in favor of the Pre. Personal attacks are not helpful and childish.
  7. 1414H77's Avatar
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       #7  
    If I go to Best Buy and get it and they apply the rebate to the price, does that mean I can't return it in the trial period, or does anyone know? When I have bought things in the past with rebates, once you sent it in and were paid you could not longer return.
  8. #8  
    [Wow. This turned into quite the rambling post. Sorry.]

    There's nothing wrong with creating such a list. If you didn't do the research or ask the right questions, we'd be criticizing you for that. So, moving right along...

    The list items are useful, but it's not just the length of the list, but how much the list items MATTER to you, that'll put one device over the top.

    That said, iPhone "con" I didn't see (I skimmed; sorry) was the thing about finding phone numbers by flipping through your contacts list instead of just typing. Maybe the new search feature (universal or otherwise) I've heard about for iPhones will/has resolved this issue.

    To me, it's a biggie. I don't know anyone's phone numbers, anymore. I've got too many and I don't dial them by memory. I rely on my phone. So, if my phone takes a long time to cough up the goods,... that's not good.


    The phones' basic uses seem to be quite different, in my opinion. I consider an iPhone to be an iPod with a phone in it.* For multimedia, it's got a leg (or two) up over the Pre. If that's what you're primarily interested in, then the PRe's probably not for you.

    The Pre's got a keyboard that's not only a physical, but more convenient for typing other characters besides letters. I can choose "alternate" characters (like the e with the line over it) soooo easily on Palm keyboards. I've seen the Apple implementation for accessing characters other than letters. It doesn't flow well enough for me. If you plan to do a lot of typing (complete with appropriate caps, punctuation, etc.) I'd lean toward the Pre. If you are interested in contacts integration, I'd lean toward the Pre. If you want convenient multitasking options (ie. the "cards" concept) ... Pre.

    Simply put: If you want a Palm type of experience, I'd lean toward the Pre. If not...



    * - I don't know how (or if) iPhones provide the convenience of the old clickwheel. That could be a deal-breaker for me.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by hbg View Post
    The trying it suggestion is a good point. Do you have a return period?

    As to other comments, sorry you don't analyze things the same why I do and think my process is stupid. However, I am honestly asking for real, constructive pros in favor of the Pre. Personal attacks are not helpful and childish.
    I agree, but sadly, this is a Treo forum and as such like many other brand eccentric forums, there will be hardcore fans that defend to the end. You won't get too many, stick with the iphone cause it works better for you responses here.

    However said that, I do agree that switching a carrier and phone for the simple reason of being bored is not the greatest reason for switching, but its your money. I would try out the Pre without porting your number over just to make sure the service works as well as you have now or better. And for someone who said Sprint's 3G is much faster than ATT's, that is just plain ignorance and I would ignore it completely, regardless of what Gizmodo's testing concludes since it depends on what area you are in and what device you're using. That's like saying the Farrari is twice as fast as the Lambo... a dumb statement.

    I can give you the answer to one of your questions though, you can use the phone while being charged through the touchstone. If your phone rings while on the touchstone, it'll go into speakerphone mode automatically.

    Bottom line, try it out for yourself, its the only way for you to know. Asking these questions here won't get you much help sadly.
  10. 1414H77's Avatar
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       #10  
    Good points. I like the idea about being able to flip through contacts. I spent a lot of my time looking up contacts now.

    I really like the ability to use the phone while on the wireless charger. Plus, when they have it for the car that would make it much easier than having to constantly plug in like I have to do with the iPhone.

    Any thoughts on the storage limitation? Do you think the apps will consume a lot of that?

    Also, do you know how (if) it is possible to get my music over from the iPhone to the Pre?
  11. xsavior's Avatar
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    #11  
    Hey HBG, and acutal real response to one of your questions. I can't provide a link because it was a while ago, might have been CES in fact, but they touted that if you have the phone on the Touchstone and a call comes in, it will let you answer the call, and in fact will automatically engage speaker phone if you leave it on the charger. I believe there was also something mentioned about seeing a call coming in, and picking it up off of the charger to auto answer.

    Summation, yes, the phone is fully functional while charging.

    I also believe that Best Buy will honor a 14day return policy, even with the lower price.
  12. xsavior's Avatar
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    #12  
    Damn, beat to the punch on the Touchstone thing. Moving music to the Pre is supposed to be drag and drop, just like you were copying it to a usb drive. I know there are scripts out there that will copy all of the music in an iTunes play list to a folder, and then you could copy that, or just go right into your library and copy files over.

    I don't know how big the iphone apps are in size, but i know it was almost unheard of to find an app larger than 1mb for the old palms, granted it's an entirely different beast now.
  13. #13  
    Looking at the new 'alleged' specs of the iPhone 3.0, it doesnt look like you will stay engaged that long. Mostly software improvements and that OLED that may look gorgeous (while increasing battery life).

    It sounds to me like you are just a bored geek, and if so...say hello to the Palm Pre!!
  14. 1414H77's Avatar
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       #14  
    Yes. Definitely a bored geek. As to 3.0, it is a lot of window dressing and really adds very little. I have been using it since it came out and it is overhyped.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by jonathan likes the pre View Post
    Uh... How is this not really a reason? It's a proven fact that Sprint is faster tha AT&T on 3G. This is a reason set in stone. Gizmodo even did a test. If you think AT&T has been great, then when you try Sprint you'll sell they're 2x better.
    This is not technically true. From most tests I have seen published AT&T in most markets was faster, but it really varies from location to location. The problem with AT&T is that they are terribly oversaturated, and incredibly unreliable. This is the pertinent talking point, not speed (which is minimal in comparison anyway, and not a valid measure).

    Edit: link to gizmodo test
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by hbg View Post
    ...
    Any thoughts on the storage limitation? Do you think the apps will consume a lot of that?

    Also, do you know how (if) it is possible to get my music over from the iPhone to the Pre?
    The Pre acts as a storage device. You can copy over any un-protected iTunes media that you have to the Pre.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by hbg View Post
    Good points. I like the idea about being able to flip through contacts. I spent a lot of my time looking up contacts now.
    The 2nd and 3rd sentences seem contradictory - or at least suggest that you LIKE spending a lot of time looking up contacts.

    To me, that seems like a serious pain in the arse. I just wanna call someone. I don't want to scroll - or I don't want to have to scroll.

    Quote Originally Posted by hbg View Post
    I really like the ability to use the phone while on the wireless charger. Plus, when they have it for the car that would make it much easier than having to constantly plug in like I have to do with the iPhone.

    Any thoughts on the storage limitation? Do you think the apps will consume a lot of that?
    Nope. I don't expect apps to consume much of GBs of storage. It'll be consumed by the pictures, music, videos, maps, or documents that you put on the device.

    If you think you're likely to top out the 8GB maybe you'll need to be more selective about what you put on the phone or maybe you'll need an alternative method of accessing some of those files like Orb or something.

    Or maybe you'll just want to get a device other than the Pre.

    I currently use an 8GB card in my 755p. I don't anticipate needing much more right away.

    Of course, needs can change in two years.

    Quote Originally Posted by hbg View Post
    Also, do you know how (if) it is possible to get my music over from the iPhone to the Pre?
    From the pc or Mac to the Pre - I'm confident that you can. From the iPhone itself to the Pre - dunno.

    The way Apple designed their iPods, back in the day, any song you could play on it was not available for transfer FROM the iPod to another device - not without some hacking or whatever.

    But I haven't bought an iPod in years and I've never owned an iPhone.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    The way Apple designed their iPods, back in the day, any song you could play on it was not available for transfer FROM the iPod to another device - not without some hacking or whatever.

    But I haven't bought an iPod in years and I've never owned an iPhone.
    It was DRM, it had nothing to do with the design of the device. The downloaded song itself was encoded to play on only one device. It didn't require a hack, just burn the song to CD and rip back to your PC as a DRM-free mp3 file.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by hbg View Post

    Unclear:
    1. Mac syncing- Sprint tells me Pre won't sync to the Mac- but will be Mark Sync available. Probably not a big deal- I sync through Exchange Server anyway.
    2. iTunes music- how will I import them to Pre?
    Not really unclear at all. If syncing to iTunes and/or a Mac are a priority, you should stick to the iPhone. Palm never supported Macs particularly well and the Pre doesn't support syncing to a Mac or PC at all. I don't think the Pre is a particularly good iPod substitute either. You won't be able to sync to iTunes, may not be able to import iTunes playlists and won't be able to play Apple protected content. 8GB isn't going to give you much space either.

    OTOH, the Pre should be a better Exchange client than the iPhone (assuming it can sync tasks and notes). Plus for email it has the real keyboard.
  20. xsavior's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by jcunwired View Post
    It was DRM, it had nothing to do with the design of the device. The downloaded song itself was encoded to play on only one device. It didn't require a hack, just burn the song to CD and rip back to your PC as a DRM-free mp3 file.
    I think he meant that if you plug in an iPod and look at the file structure, you don't see the music (with out running some sort of utility). All iPods i've ever had or seen have done this and it doesn't have anything to do with whether a track had drm or not, none of them are visible by default.
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