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  1.    #1  
    We all know one thing, Palm needs the Pre and WebOS to be a decent sized hit in order to survive. That is a fact.

    We all know that WebOS has a lot of potential to do some pretty cool things that no other phone is capable of currently. Also a fact.

    So why is it that the Palm Pre is really not the slam dunk it should be?

    I argue it is Palm's fault for the most part and here is why.


    1. Releasing with 8gb of memory when your current competitor (Iphone) is already in the 16gb range and is looking to do 32gb a month after you release. Not brain surgery here no reason for them to only have 8gb on the phone. A SD slot could have prevented this and they didn't even opt for that either.

    Palm Fail

    2. Regular keyboard, which we all hope and pray is decent feeling for the majority. Why no virtual keyboard in landscape mode? Seriously, it should be there and if you don't want it you should be able to disable it. Everyone is happy. Someone MAY be able to step up with a third party solution or they may not we don't know how closed the SDK will end up being and if third pary apps will be allowed to modify the primary apps (browser / IM / Email / ETC). There will be people that do not buy the device because of this and there is no reason for it.

    Palm Fail

    3. SDK Information. It has been anemic and the only thing we do know is that users will not have Kernel access. So in essence we are in a similar situation with the Iphone's limitations and we have zero information on what third party apps are really capable of doing. All the while apple runs commercials about 40k applications, there is an app for this and app for that.

    Now I don't expect 40k apps or even 100 at release. What I do expect is for Palm to remove the heads from their asses and release some information about what they are planning, what the phone is capable of doing, what developers can and will probably do etc. We should be hearing that the SDK will allow developers to fill the gaps that Palm themselves have left so users can make their own experience.

    Need the phone for Word, Excel, Power point? You can do that.

    Need the Visual Voice mail? Not available but nothing stopping someone from doing it

    Flash? On its way.

    Catch my drift?

    Palm Fails.


    4. Visual Voice mail. How hard is it to include this? Another feature that Apple can put in an Advertisement showing one of the many features Palm doesn't have. Perhaps a luxury for many, this is something that has been around for 2 years now. We give Apple crap for doing this yet give Palm a free pass. I don't.

    Palm Fail


    5. Screen. We are getting a Plastic screen Vs. Glass on the current Iphone and perhaps OLED on the new one in a month or two. Again one more item that indicates cheap build quality especially when the other phones are being sold in the same price point. They didn't have to use a OLED screen but including a plastic screen is a mistake and something by itself that may not make or break the phone but its just another thing to put on a chart of negatives.

    Palm semi-Fail


    6. Network - Sprint Vs At&T. It is a toss up depending on location. AT&T voice is probably a little better than Sprints yet Sprint probably on average offers better data service.

    Wash


    7. Syncing and Cloud. Ok, Palm has the Cloud idea but decides to ignore physical syncing. Why? There is NO REASON to NOT support traditional syncing. None. I could write a sync program in under a week but why should you have to rely on third parties? In fact how do we know that third party software will work with contacts? We don't. It probably will but do you really want to see an Apple ad showing that the Palm can't even sync out of the box with your computer? Do you really want to give them one more thing to point out? You shouldn't.

    Palm Fail


    8. Operating System. Palm's biggest advantage lies in it's operating system. Cards, notifications, multitasking and cloud. Sure it is a huge and nice step forward and I don't think there is a single person out there that could honestly look at how it works and not say "Damn that is pretty impressive".

    Palm win



    Conclusion:

    So you have this awesome new OS that just about everyone thinks is outstanding. Even the Apple fanbois mostly like the idea of cards and multitasking. <<edited by berd>>.

    What do they do? Some ***** decides to only have 8gb and no expandable storage???? Well they are excluding a huge number of buyers that have a lot of MP3's, video and pictures. Who really wants to be continually taking music and video off their phone? Who wants to be having to delete applications and music to fit another app or something else you might want?

    Memory is cheap. No reason for this. Congrats on alienating a large amount of customers. Also add to that No syncing with a computer, no visual voice mail, no no no no no etc. Lots of no, or I don't know and very little yes.

    Mediocre Palm Pre is what we are getting.

    OMFG Iphone killer Palm Pre would have:

    1. 16GB option
    2. Sync out of the box with desktops
    3. Virtual or physical keyboard options which can be disabled or used
    4. Open SDK to encourage heaps of useful apps
    5. Slightly better build quality (Glass screen)

    How much would that have cost Palm? Not very much. Instead they release a crippled version, potentially alienate lots of customers while they allow other competitors to catch up and in the end cost Sprint and Palm $$$.

    It doesn't matter if Apple took two years for copy and paste and MMS. Palm is coming to the plate two years later and is still not getting it right with basic features like STORAGE and INPUT.


    I may still buy the Pre, despite its downfalls. Palm is sure doing the best job they can to push me towards other devices with retarded decisions, hardware / software limitations and general silence on just about everything.

    No reason for this as they could have a slam dunk. Play your games Palm because if you fail it is your own damn fault.
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 05/20/2009 at 08:57 PM.
  2. #2  
  3. #3  
    I shouldn't even answer (neither should anyone else) but here goes: Please get yourself an iPhone and we'll ALL be happy.
  4. #4  
    dont get a pre then, and dont read this site. its not that big a deal. you seem to really like the iphone. enjoy.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahootzki View Post
    I shouldn't even answer (neither should anyone else) but here goes: Please get yourself an iPhone and we'll ALL be happy.
    I have one and trust me I want the Palm Pre to succeed. Try reading my post <<edited by berd>>. I may be critical of what Palm didn't do correctly and we all should be. They need to be successful and they could have a Iphone killer on their hands. What we are getting is not.


    Unless of course you think 8gb is more than enough memory and not short sighted in anyway and neither are any of the other negatives. All of which are easily fixed and without much cost added to the handsets.
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 05/20/2009 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Insulting
  6. #7  
    They are not trying to KILL the iPhone, they kept on saying that!!!
  7. #8  
    I actually agree with much of this. None of those things will deter me from buying on Day 1 (maybe even Day 0 or -1 if possible!), but I want the Pre to totally DEMOLISH every other smartphone on the market. In its current state, that is not the case. Clearly Palm is leaving room above the Pre for more high-end models, though how hard would it have been to have a 16GB version available the same day as the 8GB version?

    Regarding the plastic screen issue, I believe this is a restriction of the design as the screen is not flat.
    "If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness." - Jack Handey
  8.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahootzki View Post
    They are not trying to KILL the iPhone, they kept on saying that!!!
    I didn't say they were looking to kill the Iphone but they are competing and do you honestly think they wouldn't do better if they had included a bit more memory and the few other pretty easily added items?

    Do you really want to see the new Iphone ad showing:

    1. 4x the memory

    2. Doesn't sync to your computer!

    3. No text input in landscape mode?

    4. Limited apps

    5. Plastic screen!

    6. No visual voice mail


    Take off the Fanboi glasses
  9. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    I didn't say they were looking to kill the Iphone but they are competing and do you honestly think they wouldn't do better if they had included a bit more memory and the few other pretty easily added items?

    Do you really want to see the new Iphone ad showing:

    1. 4x the memory

    2. Doesn't sync to your computer!

    3. No text input in landscape mode?

    4. Limited apps

    5. Plastic screen!

    6. No visual voice mail


    Take off the Fanboi glasses
    thanks for numbering. easier to read and respond.

    1. 4x the memory - wait for Pre 2

    2. Doesn't sync to your computer! - we don't know this yet

    3. No text input in landscape mode? - wait for third party app

    4. Limited apps - wait for app store - give it some time

    5. Plastic screen! - required for curved display/ergonomics

    6. No visual voice mail - we don't know this yet and could be a free add-on later.
  10.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by leadtrumpetdave View Post
    I actually agree with much of this. None of those things will deter me from buying on Day 1 (maybe even Day 0 or -1 if possible!), but I want the Pre to totally DEMOLISH every other smartphone on the market. In its current state, that is not the case. Clearly Palm is leaving room above the Pre for more high-end models, though how hard would it have been to have a 16GB version available the same day as the 8GB version?

    Regarding the plastic screen issue, I believe this is a restriction of the design as the screen is not flat.


    I will also most likely be buying on Day 1 as well.
    <<edited by berd>> I can sit back and look at my device or future device and readily admit the things it needs or what the manufacturer did wrong.

    Others feel the need to defend everything. Takes both kinds to make the world go around.
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 05/20/2009 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Not Appropriate
  11. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by iPhanBouy
    1. Releasing with 8gb of memory when your current competitor (Iphone) is already in the 16gb range and is looking to do 32gb a month after you release. Not brain surgery here no reason for them to only have 8gb on the phone. A SD slot could have prevented this and they didn't even opt for that either.

    Palm Fail
    The Pre is not intended to be an end-all media device. Plus, with Sprint TV and a whole host of other features NOT BLOCKED ON SPRINT, mean you don't need to store everything on the device. Also, larger-sized devices are planned.

    Quote Originally Posted by iPhanBouy
    2. Regular keyboard, which we all hope and pray is decent feeling for the majority. Why no virtual keyboard in landscape mode? Seriously, it should be there and if you don't want it you should be able to disable it. Everyone is happy. Someone MAY be able to step up with a third party solution or they may not we don't know how closed the SDK will end up being and if third pary apps will be allowed to modify the primary apps (browser / IM / Email / ETC). There will be people that do not buy the device because of this and there is no reason for it.

    Palm Fail
    The phone will be used 99% of the time vertically. JUST LIKE THE iPHONE. Just like any phone. Phyiscal keyboard = win. Virtual = fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by iPhanBouy
    3. SDK Information. It has been anemic and the only thing we do know is that users will not have Kernel access. So in essence we are in a similar situation with the Iphone's limitations and we have zero information on what third party apps are really capable of doing. All the while apple runs commercials about 40k applications, there is an app for this and app for that.

    Now I don't expect 40k apps or even 100 at release. What I do expect is for Palm to remove the heads from their asses and release some information about what they are planning, what the phone is capable of doing, what developers can and will probably do etc. We should be hearing that the SDK will allow developers to fill the gaps that Palm themselves have left so users can make their own experience.

    Need the phone for Word, Excel, Power point? You can do that.

    Need the Visual Voice mail? Not available but nothing stopping someone from doing it

    Flash? On its way.

    Catch my drift?

    Palm Fails.
    Sorry, but Palm has released MUCH more than Apple did for a very long time. Plus they plan on having a much more open environment. Not like Apple controlling the app store.


    Quote Originally Posted by iPhanBouy
    4. Visual Voice mail. How hard is it to include this? Another feature that Apple can put in an Advertisement showing one of the many features Palm doesn't have. Perhaps a luxury for many, this is something that has been around for 2 years now. We give Apple crap for doing this yet give Palm a free pass. I don't.

    Palm Fail
    Press and hold 1. Instant access to voicemail. Damn, that was hard. No one said this phone won't have it eventually anyhow.


    Quote Originally Posted by iPhanBouy
    5. Screen. We are getting a Plastic screen Vs. Glass on the current Iphone and perhaps OLED on the new one in a month or two. Again one more item that indicates cheap build quality especially when the other phones are being sold in the same price point. They didn't have to use a OLED screen but including a plastic screen is a mistake and something by itself that may not make or break the phone but its just another thing to put on a chart of negatives.

    Palm semi-Fail
    The glass screen cracks. I don't know anyone that hasn't broken their iPhone screen, and then had to buy a whole new iPhone since you can't get it insured, like you can on Sprint.


    Quote Originally Posted by iPhanBouy
    6. Network - Sprint Vs At&T. It is a toss up depending on location. AT&T voice is probably a little better than Sprints yet Sprint probably on average offers better data service.

    Wash
    I'd say CDMA sounds better than GSM, always. Many people will agree. Sounds like Sprint/Palm wins that one.


    Quote Originally Posted by iPhanBouy
    7. Syncing and Cloud. Ok, Palm has the Cloud idea but decides to ignore physical syncing. Why? There is NO REASON to NOT support traditional syncing. None. I could write a sync program in under a week but why should you have to rely on third parties? In fact how do we know that third party software will work with contacts? We don't. It probably will but do you really want to see an Apple ad showing that the Palm can't even sync out of the box with your computer? Do you really want to give them one more thing to point out? You shouldn't.

    Palm Fail
    Nothing is stopping a local sync software. Also, no one has said there isn't a local solution. You might have to do it over WiFi though. Who cares? Most people use Exchange or Gmail anyways. Your complaints are minor so far.


    Quote Originally Posted by iPhanBouy
    8. Operating System. Palm's biggest advantage lies in it's operating system. Cards, notifications, multitasking and cloud. Sure it is a huge and nice step forward and I don't think there is a single person out there that could honestly look at how it works and not say "Damn that is pretty impressive".

    Palm win
    Yup.



    Quote Originally Posted by iPhanBouy
    Conclusion:

    So you have this awesome new OS that just about everyone thinks is outstanding. Even the Apple fanbois mostly like the idea of cards and multitasking. <<edited by berd>>

    What do they do? Some ***** decides to only have 8gb and no expandable storage???? Well they are excluding a huge number of buyers that have a lot of MP3's, video and pictures. Who really wants to be continually taking music and video off their phone? Who wants to be having to delete applications and music to fit another app or something else you might want?

    Memory is cheap. No reason for this. Congrats on alienating a large amount of customers. Also add to that No syncing with a computer, no visual voice mail, no no no no no etc. Lots of no, or I don't know and very little yes.

    Mediocre Palm Pre is what we are getting.

    OMFG Iphone killer Palm Pre would have:

    1. 16GB option
    2. Sync out of the box with desktops
    3. Virtual or physical keyboard options which can be disabled or used
    4. Open SDK to encourage heaps of useful apps
    5. Slightly better build quality (Glass screen)

    How much would that have cost Palm? Not very much. Instead they release a half the version, potentially alienate lots of customers while they allow other competitors to catch up and in the end cost Sprint and Palm $$$.

    It doesn't matter if Apple took two years for copy and paste and MMS. Palm is coming to the plate two years later and is still not getting it right with basic features like STORAGE and INPUT.


    I may still buy the Pre, despite its downfalls. Palm is sure doing the best job they can to push me towards other devices with retarded decisions, hardware / software limitations and general silence on just about everything.

    No reason for this as they could have a slam dunk. Play your games Palm because if you fail it is your own damn fault.
    Go get an iPhone.
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 05/20/2009 at 09:02 PM.
  12. vandi's Avatar
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    #13  
    For the average user 8gb is plenty. It's the Power user that will need more. I'm sure they will look at the differentiators and Gen2 Pre may have additional memory and some sort of SD slot, along with other additional improvements.

    I'm happy that people are happy with their iPhones. Treos have been doing many of the functions for years as far as entertainment and functionality. The only reason why I have an iPod is that one was given to me, and prior to owning it, I've had an iTune gift card, which i have yet to use. All my music comes from my CDs.

    Personally I don't want to cater to Apple's locked in technologies. If they would open up to installing MacOS on non-apple hardware, I would probably do it in a heartbeat.

    Their app store is worse than ebay. I don't think anyone should be locked into purchasing their wares from any one store and applications used should not be censored, it should be my decisions to use them/pay for them.

    I like my slingplayer.....hopefully it will work under classic until a native version is released.
  13. #14  
    The Pre is not an iPhone killer, its the anti-iPhone. A great option for all those people who do not want to buy an iPhone. Plus the iPhone focus is mostly on media, Palm is going after a different market.

    I dont care if the iPhone has 100gig of storage, I'm still not getting it. But if I was looking for a new iPod I would check out the iPod touch. I just dont like the iPhone's form factor and it not having a real keyboard for a phone.
  14. #15  
    Clean up the Language guys.
    The Filters aren't in place to '*' out gutter talk.
  15. Stihl's Avatar
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    #16  
    I feel you. Hopefully the robustness of the Web OS proves itself pretty quickly. Something snappy and responsive will outweigh a lot of potential negatives.

    I'm not convinced that the memory thing is an issue. Of course, I mostly use my work for business and probably have had at max 300 songs on my current phone. I already have an mp3 player and mostly used the songs on my phone to change ringtones often. I feel like the UI and format of the media player would have to be ridiculously compelling for me to switch from my ipod mini. Now, as for movies, I can see your beef, especially since there is no card slot.

    Hopefully this phone does well so that the next generation, facing stiff competition, continues to up the ante. We won't know how everything works until we get it in our hands and find out, but I'm less worried about the potential faults of the current gen than what it may or may not imply about future gen phones. If the pre does well enough to give palm and sprint a breath of fresh air and the iphone 4 comes out with a bullhorn attachment, will we still be looking forward to the plastic screen, the obvious memory upgrade, and little else feature wise in the Pre 2.0?
  16. Xyg
    Xyg is offline
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    #17  
    I argue it is Palm's fault for the most part and here is why.


    1. Releasing with 8gb of memory when your current competitor (Iphone) is already in the 16gb range and is looking to do 32gb a month after you release. Not brain surgery here no reason for them to only have 8gb on the phone. A SD slot could have prevented this and they didn't even opt for that either.
    I'm in the middle on this one. 8GB is probably adequate, keeping in mind that many of the applications for this device are going to be relatively lightweight. And I personally don't care about keeping my entire music library on my portable devices (enough for road trips, trips to the gym).

    With memory prices where they are, however, I am surprised that they didn't include more memory.

    2. Regular keyboard, which we all hope and pray is decent feeling for the majority. Why no virtual keyboard in landscape mode? Seriously, it should be there and if you don't want it you should be able to disable it. Everyone is happy. Someone MAY be able to step up with a third party solution or they may not we don't know how closed the SDK will end up being and if third pary apps will be allowed to modify the primary apps (browser / IM / Email / ETC). There will be people that do not buy the device because of this and there is no reason for it.
    Itís hard to say without actually holding the device how the ergonomics on the keyboard are. I would venture that people don't mind orienting the device from landscape to type while browsing the web, etc.

    And as far as virtual keyboards on handhelds are concerned, I've yet to use one I like.

    3rd party virtual keyboards on the Pre? Who cares.


    3. SDK Information. It has been anemic and the only thing we do know is that users will not have Kernel access. So in essence we are in a similar situation with the Iphone's limitations and we have zero information on what third party apps are really capable of doing. All the while apple runs commercials about 40k applications, there is an app for this and app for that.

    Now I don't expect 40k apps or even 100 at release. What I do expect is for Palm to remove the heads from their asses and release some information about what they are planning, what the phone is capable of doing, what developers can and will probably do etc. We should be hearing that the SDK will allow developers to fill the gaps that Palm themselves have left so users can make their own experience.

    Need the phone for Word, Excel, Power point? You can do that.

    Need the Visual Voice mail? Not available but nothing stopping someone from doing it

    Flash? On its way.

    Catch my drift?

    I donít see anything uncommon about how Palm is going about releasing itís SDK. I would suggest signing up for your nearest Pre Dev Camp preDevCamp to learn all about the SDKís capabilities.


    4. Visual Voice mail. How hard is it to include this? Another feature that Apple can put in an Advertisement showing one of the many features Palm doesn't have. Perhaps a luxury for many, this is something that has been around for 2 years now. We give Apple crap for doing this yet give Palm a free pass. I don't.
    I am in agreement with you on this one. I will be disappointed if this feature is not included.

    5. Screen. We are getting a Plastic screen Vs. Glass on the current Iphone and perhaps OLED on the new one in a month or two. Again one more item that indicates cheap build quality especially when the other phones are being sold in the same price point. They didn't have to use a OLED screen but including a plastic screen is a mistake and something by itself that may not make or break the phone but its just another thing to put on a chart of negatives
    I would suggest waiting until you have a chance to actually handle a Pre. Maybe it doesn't feel cheap just because itís made out of plastic?

    6. Network - Sprint Vs At&T. It is a toss up depending on location. AT&T voice is probably a little better than Sprints yet Sprint probably on average offers better data service.
    ...

    7. Syncing and Cloud. Ok, Palm has the Cloud idea but decides to ignore physical syncing. Why? There is NO REASON to NOT support traditional syncing. None. I could write a sync program in under a week but why should you have to rely on third parties? In fact how do we know that third party software will work with contacts? We don't. It probably will but do you really want to see an Apple ad showing that the Palm can't even sync out of the box with your computer? Do you really want to give them one more thing to point out? You shouldn't.
    Perhaps you should wait until closer to launch to see exactly what the synchronization capabilities are?

    8. Operating System. Palm's biggest advantage lies in it's operating system. Cards, notifications, multitasking and cloud. Sure it is a huge and nice step forward and I don't think there is a single person out there that could honestly look at how it works and not say "Damn that is pretty impressive".
    ....

    Conclusion:

    Maybe you should wait until the device is released to critique Palm and Sprint in their performance of the launch?
  17. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    7. Syncing and Cloud. Ok, Palm has the Cloud idea but decides to ignore physical syncing. Why? There is NO REASON to NOT support traditional syncing. None. I could write a sync program in under a week but why should you have to rely on third parties? In fact how do we know that third party software will work with contacts? We don't. It probably will but do you really want to see an Apple ad showing that the Palm can't even sync out of the box with your computer? Do you really want to give them one more thing to point out? You shouldn't.

    Palm Fail
    This is a huge Palm Win IMO. Sorry, but the pre doesn't sport a modem for dial-up either. Just like syncing, dial-up was great when it was all we had. High speed internet was rare so data needed to be stored both on the local computer, and on your mobile device, and they needed to sync. Now with the prevalence of broadband data can be stored in one central server that owns the data and allows clients to access. The "cloud" simply refers to dedicated servers. It is time that all devices abandon the flawed idea of keeping data in multiple locations with no authoritative owner and "syncing" them.

    Flame on, palm loyalists. Sorry about your palm desktop, now put your data on a server where it belongs.
  18. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    ...
    They need to be successful and they could have a Iphone killer on their hands. What we are getting is not.
    ...
    You're combining two different things, which invalidates your argument.

    They do need to be successful
    They do not need an "Iphone killer"
  19. #20  
    no offense, but most of that stuff is subjective.
    Me for example, I don't care about most of that stuff. I just want to be productive. iphone does not equal productivity for me.

    so.....iphone = fail....and no amount of wizardry (visual voicemail, 32gb of ram, whatever) will make up for that.

    not only that. Despite what the media would have you believe, The Pre doesn't have to be an "iphone killer" in order to succeed.
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