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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    I didn't say they were looking to kill the Iphone but they are competing and do you honestly think they wouldn't do better if they had included a bit more memory and the few other pretty easily added items?

    Do you really want to see the new Iphone ad showing:

    1. 4x the memory

    2. Doesn't sync to your computer!

    3. No text input in landscape mode?

    4. Limited apps

    5. Plastic screen!

    6. No visual voice mail


    Take off the Fanboi glasses
    sorry......Didn't you say iphone killer in your OP? Or did I imagine that?
  2. #22  
    Shoo Apple fanboy. Go away!
    Palm History: Palm III>IIIc>CLIÉ NR70v>CLIÉ TG50>Tungsten C>Treo 650>Treo 700p>Centro>Pre!! 6/5/09
    Phone History: Way too long

    Sorry Timmy, SERO does not work with the Pre.
    If you have an iTouch click me.
  3. #23  
    IMHO Aridon makes some very very good observations....and I think Palm should wait and do some more development to address memory, apps, screen materials etc.....I just feel Palm is rushing it all....and in so doing they run a huge risk of failing when they could make a huge hit instead!All the hype in the world will not compensate for shoo=ddy workmanship and/or poor design decisions! I for one have found in the Treo Pro an excellent phone in many ways that works for me.....so I am content bto watch and wait for now....a better version of the Prev iss imho an inevitable step....I think Palm is mired too much in their past slowness.....maybe they need a jump start at the top with a new manaagenent, and R and D model put in place....being late to the party is really not a successful business plan....

    Also, while anyone has a right to express themselves however they choose...it would be more pleasant to refrain from the sort of posts Aridon has done....frustration is quite understandable!!!! I feel it too Aridon, but just bear in mind that sometimes it would be better to choose other words to convey such feelings......This is a great forum, and I'd like to see it stay that way
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMaker View Post
    The phone will be used 99% of the time vertically. JUST LIKE THE iPHONE. Just like any phone.
    I think you need to review Palm's own videos/.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    I didn't say they were looking to kill the Iphone but they are competing and do you honestly think they wouldn't do better if they had included a bit more memory and the few other pretty easily added items?
    ...
    Really, then what was this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    ...
    OMFG Iphone killer Palm Pre would have:

    1. 16GB option
    2. Sync out of the box with desktops
    3. Virtual or physical keyboard options which can be disabled or used
    4. Open SDK to encourage heaps of useful apps
    5. Slightly better build quality (Glass screen)
    The implication was pretty clear..
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by asforme View Post
    This is a huge Palm Win IMO. Sorry, but the pre doesn't sport a modem for dial-up either. Just like syncing, dial-up was great when it was all we had. High speed internet was rare so data needed to be stored both on the local computer, and on your mobile device, and they needed to sync. Now with the prevalence of broadband data can be stored in one central server that owns the data and allows clients to access. The "cloud" simply refers to dedicated servers. It is time that all devices abandon the flawed idea of keeping data in multiple locations with no authoritative owner and "syncing" them.

    Flame on, palm loyalists. Sorry about your palm desktop, now put your data on a server where it belongs.
    I WISH I could get with the program here but my company won't let me until I'm promoted to a certain level (2 promos and at least 4 years from now.)
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Really, then what was this?



    The implication was pretty clear..


    Do you not understand the difference between a company not shooting for an Iphone killer yet having a phone that is so good that it actually could be considered a potential one?
  8. #28  
    you are basically just comparing the pre with the iPhone.
    anybody can do that, you aren't really judging the pre; you are just bashing it and comparing it to the iPhone.
    now I could make a long *** post saying the things that pre beats the iPhone on, but that wouldn't be too useful.

    just stay with your iPhone if you love it that much, and don't get the pre.
    WIN WIN
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post

    [b]I may still buy the Pre, despite its downfalls. .
    That is when you know your product does not fail.

    After all of that, there is nothing that keeps you from stating the Pre is not worth buying....

    Now, if it runs through the "official" testing from "real" people, then I can say it is worth buying.

    I think the jury is still out on the most important stuff:

    Reception
    Battery life
    stability

    etc, etc...

    The real stuff... not the fake stuff like attempting to keep up with a phone that needs 16 gb... iphone is an ipod as well. lol
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  10. #30  
    That was a really lame post.

    If LG and Samsung can each sell 20 million touchscreen phones and the G1 can sell one million, then Pre has a shot at being a hit. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks a missing feature or bad release date is. It will sell, a lot of people are satisfied, the end.
  11. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #31  
    Do you really want to see the new iPh- I mean Pre ad showing:

    1. True Multitasking

    2. Over the air, seemless syncing with exchange, google, facebook, and others for contacts and calenders

    3. Physical Keyboard

    4. Unobtrusive notifications

    5. Less costly plans on "The most dependable network as rated by a 3rd party source"

    6. Removable Battery

    Take off the Fanboi glasses
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    Do you not understand the difference between a company not shooting for an Iphone killer yet having a phone that is so good that it actually could be considered a potential one?
    Do you not understand the difference between saying "I didn't say that" and actually saying it?

    That was what we were talking about, whether or not you said what you said. You could have simply stated what you just did, and avoided the "See, you did say it" posts.

    But, since you're on the subject, which iPhone does the Pre need to "kill"? So far, there have been two, and now talk of a third. I don't think they'll have any trouble "killing" the first iPhone...

    Oh wait, that's not what you meant, right? You mean the line of iPhone, not a particular model, right?

    Then why compare one model of Palm's offering. The Pre is the first and almost certainly is not going to be the last. The WebOS phones. as a lineup of phones, are most definitely going to be contender's against the iPhones.

    I don't make many bets, but I'd be willilng to put up some money with you on this one. You ready?
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I think you need to review Palm's own videos/.
    I'm just saying that for the most part it doesn't seem that any app that really would use text entry would really benefit--other than the web browser--but you lose so much of the screen when you have OSK... which is what I hate about the iPhone in the first place.
  14. #34  
    Sounds to me like you just want to whine. Most of your issues don't make matter a bit to me. If anything fails here, it's you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    We all know one thing, Palm needs the Pre and WebOS to be a decent sized hit in order to survive. That is a fact.

    We all know that WebOS has a lot of potential to do some pretty cool things that no other phone is capable of currently. Also a fact.

    So why is it that the Palm Pre is really not the slam dunk it should be?

    I argue it is Palm's fault for the most part and here is why.


    1. Releasing with 8gb of memory when your current competitor (Iphone) is already in the 16gb range and is looking to do 32gb a month after you release. Not brain surgery here no reason for them to only have 8gb on the phone. A SD slot could have prevented this and they didn't even opt for that either.

    Palm Fail

    2. Regular keyboard, which we all hope and pray is decent feeling for the majority. Why no virtual keyboard in landscape mode? Seriously, it should be there and if you don't want it you should be able to disable it. Everyone is happy. Someone MAY be able to step up with a third party solution or they may not we don't know how closed the SDK will end up being and if third pary apps will be allowed to modify the primary apps (browser / IM / Email / ETC). There will be people that do not buy the device because of this and there is no reason for it.

    Palm Fail

    3. SDK Information. It has been anemic and the only thing we do know is that users will not have Kernel access. So in essence we are in a similar situation with the Iphone's limitations and we have zero information on what third party apps are really capable of doing. All the while apple runs commercials about 40k applications, there is an app for this and app for that.

    Now I don't expect 40k apps or even 100 at release. What I do expect is for Palm to remove the heads from their asses and release some information about what they are planning, what the phone is capable of doing, what developers can and will probably do etc. We should be hearing that the SDK will allow developers to fill the gaps that Palm themselves have left so users can make their own experience.

    Need the phone for Word, Excel, Power point? You can do that.

    Need the Visual Voice mail? Not available but nothing stopping someone from doing it

    Flash? On its way.

    Catch my drift?

    Palm Fails.


    4. Visual Voice mail. How hard is it to include this? Another feature that Apple can put in an Advertisement showing one of the many features Palm doesn't have. Perhaps a luxury for many, this is something that has been around for 2 years now. We give Apple crap for doing this yet give Palm a free pass. I don't.

    Palm Fail


    5. Screen. We are getting a Plastic screen Vs. Glass on the current Iphone and perhaps OLED on the new one in a month or two. Again one more item that indicates cheap build quality especially when the other phones are being sold in the same price point. They didn't have to use a OLED screen but including a plastic screen is a mistake and something by itself that may not make or break the phone but its just another thing to put on a chart of negatives.

    Palm semi-Fail


    6. Network - Sprint Vs At&T. It is a toss up depending on location. AT&T voice is probably a little better than Sprints yet Sprint probably on average offers better data service.

    Wash


    7. Syncing and Cloud. Ok, Palm has the Cloud idea but decides to ignore physical syncing. Why? There is NO REASON to NOT support traditional syncing. None. I could write a sync program in under a week but why should you have to rely on third parties? In fact how do we know that third party software will work with contacts? We don't. It probably will but do you really want to see an Apple ad showing that the Palm can't even sync out of the box with your computer? Do you really want to give them one more thing to point out? You shouldn't.

    Palm Fail


    8. Operating System. Palm's biggest advantage lies in it's operating system. Cards, notifications, multitasking and cloud. Sure it is a huge and nice step forward and I don't think there is a single person out there that could honestly look at how it works and not say "Damn that is pretty impressive".

    Palm win



    Conclusion:

    So you have this awesome new OS that just about everyone thinks is outstanding. Even the Apple fanbois mostly like the idea of cards and multitasking. <<edited by berd>>.

    What do they do? Some ***** decides to only have 8gb and no expandable storage???? Well they are excluding a huge number of buyers that have a lot of MP3's, video and pictures. Who really wants to be continually taking music and video off their phone? Who wants to be having to delete applications and music to fit another app or something else you might want?

    Memory is cheap. No reason for this. Congrats on alienating a large amount of customers. Also add to that No syncing with a computer, no visual voice mail, no no no no no etc. Lots of no, or I don't know and very little yes.

    Mediocre Palm Pre is what we are getting.

    OMFG Iphone killer Palm Pre would have:

    1. 16GB option
    2. Sync out of the box with desktops
    3. Virtual or physical keyboard options which can be disabled or used
    4. Open SDK to encourage heaps of useful apps
    5. Slightly better build quality (Glass screen)

    How much would that have cost Palm? Not very much. Instead they release a crippled version, potentially alienate lots of customers while they allow other competitors to catch up and in the end cost Sprint and Palm $$$.

    It doesn't matter if Apple took two years for copy and paste and MMS. Palm is coming to the plate two years later and is still not getting it right with basic features like STORAGE and INPUT.


    I may still buy the Pre, despite its downfalls. Palm is sure doing the best job they can to push me towards other devices with retarded decisions, hardware / software limitations and general silence on just about everything.

    No reason for this as they could have a slam dunk. Play your games Palm because if you fail it is your own damn fault.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Do you not understand the difference between saying "I didn't say that" and actually saying it?

    That was what we were talking about, whether or not you said what you said. You could have simply stated what you just did, and avoided the "See, you did say it" posts.

    But, since you're on the subject, which iPhone does the Pre need to "kill"? So far, there have been two, and now talk of a third. I don't think they'll have any trouble "killing" the first iPhone...

    Oh wait, that's not what you meant, right? You mean the line of iPhone, not a particular model, right?

    Then why compare one model of Palm's offering. The Pre is the first and almost certainly is not going to be the last. The WebOS phones. as a lineup of phones, are most definitely going to be contender's against the iPhones.

    I don't make many bets, but I'd be willilng to put up some money with you on this one. You ready?


    Like I said, I didn't say Palm was looking to kill the Iphone. They don't have to in order to compete. I know this as do most people.

    Separate thought in the same post. I said that if Palm had added the items I indicated they should have they would have a potential Iphone killer. My opinion since the upgraded storage and other nit pick items would placate many of the complaints about the Pre. They are not releasing such a phone so I'm not sure what your issue is.

    I also agree with you WebOS is far bigger than just the Pre. If you read some of my prior posts I state that the Pre will not be the savior of Palm or Sprint but WebOS may end up saving Palm.

    We bash Apple for needing an entire phone revisions to make simple changes like MMS and copy paste. Yet we make excuses when Palm is going to release a device with an inferior amount of storage and some other items that probably should be included.

    Not having those items may keep people from buying, having them is not going to keep people from buying.

    Funny how perspective changes depending on which corner you are in. I can call out Palm's mistakes just like Apple's. I am not a fanboi of either company.
  16. philipsv's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by asforme View Post
    This is a huge Palm Win IMO. Sorry, but the pre doesn't sport a modem for dial-up either. Just like syncing, dial-up was great when it was all we had. High speed internet was rare so data needed to be stored both on the local computer, and on your mobile device, and they needed to sync. Now with the prevalence of broadband data can be stored in one central server that owns the data and allows clients to access. The "cloud" simply refers to dedicated servers. It is time that all devices abandon the flawed idea of keeping data in multiple locations with no authoritative owner and "syncing" them.

    Flame on, palm loyalists. Sorry about your palm desktop, now put your data on a server where it belongs.

    Sheesh, man, that's unbelievably arrogant.

    Weren't medical professionals/doctors were one of the biggest adopters of Palm devices? Do they also have to be forced to put sensitive data on this much ballyhooed "cloud"?

    The Palm OS Emulator is the right idea - at least you are giving a lot of those folks a reason to stay with Palm. But how many of those medical professionals will stay away because of a lack of local-sync?

    Forget Doctors, some of us 'regular' folks just don't like the idea of sending our data to Google. Period.

    What really irks me, is that it should be very easy for Palm to provide a local-sync solution out-of-the-box. Correct me if I am wrong - but they 'invented' the concept, didn't they? It just seems really short-sighted that they are ignoring this.

    I am reminded of a story narrated by a Palm loyalist on another blog - arguing with an iphone fanboi about his insistence that Apple's decision to force the virtual keyboard on consumers was the 'right' thing - he recounted a decision by his company to implement a 'paperless' office, and how it ended up with the most used button on the implementation being the 'print' button!

    I think the iphone is a fantastic device in many ways. But, for me - and I suspect, millions of others - a smartphone is primarily a 'productivity-tool'. PIM is its raison d'etre, and by extension, a physical qwerty keyboard is also a must-have. The iphone is flawed on both fronts and no matter how great the iphone is at every other aspect - even if it were to have webOS' multi-tasking abilities and intuitiveness - I would NEVER buy the iphone.

    Other than that, I disagree with Aridon mostly. Without getting into each issue he brought up, I will say that, broadly, Palm's strategy seems to remind me of Apple's - introduce a product with sufficient wow-appeal to make a 'hit' product launch, but also with enough limitations to introduce successive iterations/form-factors to create a 'product-line' with different price-points. This is a very profitable strategy.

    And you want Palm to be profitable.

    IF - you have a vested interest in the long-term development/growth of the webOS platform.
  17. #37  
    As much as the people here are rightly defending Palm and Sprint. The comparison in inevitable and unavoidable. They brought it on themselves. The Pre will in most likelihood be a very good if not great device. What is really distrubing are the decisions that have been made. The biggie for the device is storage. At minimun there should have been an option for more storage with a micro sd slot. For the companies its the choice of release date. If you have a device that is even as great as the Pre could be. You don't go up against the 10 ton gorilla that is Apple if you don't have a device that is comarable. By low balling the storage you give Apple an even bigger target to knock you out of the park with. Even if you have Apple only announce a new phone. You now have a tin horn up against the Boston Pops.

    It didn't have to happen. But the die is cast, lets hope it was the right one.
  18. #38  
    I'm curious, what do you folks think the chances are that Palm already has a device in development that does have more storage (or a slot for memory)?

    Might even actually beat the iPhone 3 to market.
  19. #39  
    We all know both phones have their pluses and their minus.

    If you want an entertainment device that makes phone calls you buy an Iphone. take away the phone and you have an Ipod.
    The Iphone is a toy. It makes your daily life more fun. well the fun that apple says you can have.

    If you want the next generation PDA, one that not only keeps track of your information but also keeps tracks and notify's others and makes phone calls you get the pre.
    The Pre is a tool will make your daily life easier. And you can use it however you want.

    I really think that the pre could be a hit for people who live off social networking.
    It is the phone for them.

    It's also the phone for the busy body. The person who needs to keep track of multiple calendars, task lists and contacts. If the phone actually will do automatic notifications to contacts of potential tardiness and such it could be a godsend.

    I've never used an Iphone nor have I ever been interested in one. It's not the device for me. It's more form than function. I prefer function to form. Apple controls too much of anything they create, but we all know that and that's why they always come out with solid merchandise. Thats the price people who prefer Apples way gladly pay the wonderful products they create.
    --Nextel Blackberry 7520 -> Sprint Treo 700p -> Sprint Treo 755p -> Sprint Pre
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'm curious, what do you folks think the chances are that Palm already has a device in development that does have more storage (or a slot for memory)?

    Might even actually beat the iPhone 3 to market.
    A does the phrase "Slim and none" ring a bell.

    To be honest, if we were now only hearing about the possible updates to the Iphone. Then you would be right. As it is we may see a Pre2 in say 12/09 or 1st q 10. Oh well.
    Last edited by mech1164; 05/20/2009 at 10:35 PM.
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