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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The problem here is the definition of accuracy.

    Resistive screens often fail to register taps or finger presses (and sure, sometimes it's because you don't use enough pressure, but sometimes they just don't register). Hard to argue its objective superiority when you have to do things more than once or twice for it to work.

    Finger gestures are problematic, too.
    Well talking as someone who has used resistive touch screen smart phones for the last 3 or 4 years I can tell you in my experience that is total rubbish. I have NEVER 'Often' had problems with the screen not registering taps with my finger nails, sometimes it's a case of using a stylus instead but otherwise using a finger always works.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by EeZeEpEe View Post
    Funny cause I never use my stylus. I used the 5-way navigation all the time. It's quicker and more efficient for me then to have to pull out and put back the stylus all the time.
    I meant the convience of having a pen with me always.
    Palm History: Palm III>IIIc>CLIÉ NR70v>CLIÉ TG50>Tungsten C>Treo 650>Treo 700p>Centro>Pre!! 6/5/09
    Phone History: Way too long

    Sorry Timmy, SERO does not work with the Pre.
    If you have an iTouch click me.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
    Well talking as someone who has used resistive touch screen smart phones for the last 3 or 4 years I can tell you in my experience that is total rubbish. I have NEVER 'Often' had problems with the screen not registering taps with my finger nails, sometimes it's a case of using a stylus instead but otherwise using a finger always works.
    Ok, so Zyphlin just made up his experience with the Touch Diamond, and when I have to click web links repeatedly within the Instinct S30 browser and Opera Mini 4.2 to get them to work, I'm imagining it too.

    Oh, and almost all resistive touchscreens' responsiveness is compared to the capacitive screen of the iPhone...another figment, I suppose.

    This forum is like bizarroworld sometimes.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Ok, so Zyphlin just made up his experience with the Touch Diamond, and when I have to click web links repeatedly within the Instinct S30 browser and Opera Mini 4.2 to get them to work, I'm imagining it too.

    Oh, and almost all resistive touchscreens' responsiveness is compared to the capacitive screen of the iPhone...another figment, I suppose.

    This forum is like bizarroworld sometimes.
    You obviously failed to read the part where I said In 'My' Experience. What, do you think that because you agree with the bad experiences in this thread that no one can say anything different? That's how your post reads.
    As already stated this thread is FULL of inconsistencies with touch screens. Like I said, as a user of resistive screens for 4 years (All Sony Ericsson) in 'MY' experience I would NEVER state that they regularly don't register touches from fingers or finger nails.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
    You obviously failed to read the part where I said In 'My' Experience. What, do you think that because you agree with the bad experiences in this thread that no one can say anything different? That's how your post reads.
    As already stated this thread is FULL of inconsistencies with touch screens. Like I said, as a user of resistive screens for 4 years (All Sony Ericsson) in 'MY' experience I would NEVER state that they regularly don't register touches from fingers or finger nails.
    Maybe it's a windows mobile issue, but I'd had issues with touches registering on my Mogul and previously on an iPaq.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
    You obviously failed to read the part where I said In 'My' Experience. What, do you think that because you agree with the bad experiences in this thread that no one can say anything different? That's how your post reads.
    I read your post just fine. But when you say these less-than-deal experiences with resistive screens are "rubbish", it implies that you discount them entirely.

    As already stated this thread is FULL of inconsistencies with touch screens. Like I said, as a user of resistive screens for 4 years (All Sony Ericsson) in 'MY' experience I would NEVER state that they regularly don't register touches from fingers or finger nails.
    Take a look at this demo of the Toshiba TG01 - which is about the most well-powered and technically state-of-the-art Windows Mobile handset on the horizon - and see how well its resistive screen does:

    Toshiba TG01 GUI, video playback demoed on film

    Hopefully, that will help you understand why capacitive screens are so preferred for finger usage.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Take a look at this demo of the Toshiba TG01 - which is about the most well-powered and technically state-of-the-art Windows Mobile handset on the horizon - and see how well its resistive screen does:

    Toshiba TG01 GUI, video playback demoed on film

    Hopefully, that will help you understand why capacitive screens are so preferred for finger usage.
    The TG01 is running Windows Mobile 6.1 yes? And that's a stylus based OS so its bound to have fiddly small icons.
    The Sony Ericsson Idou has a full resistive touch screen and it works way better:

    Dailymotion - Sony Ericsson Idou - a Tech & Science video

    So whilst I DO understand that capacitive screens are preferred for finger touch, they are not necessarily better.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
    The TG01 is running Windows Mobile 6.1 yes? And that's a stylus based OS so its bound to have fiddly small icons.
    Notice they were running a custom touch skin so that WinMo 6.1 did not appear in the video, and the Toshiba exhibitioner did not use a stylus with that custom skin, believing a finger to be adequate.

    It was not, and small icons and Windows Mobile 6.1 had nothing to do with it.

    The Sony Ericsson Idou has a full resistive touch screen and it works way better:

    Dailymotion - Sony Ericsson Idou - a Tech & Science video

    So whilst I DO understand that capacitive screens are preferred for finger touch, they are not necessarily better.
    Not only did I see missed clicks in that video (The camera options menu around 2:15), but he was carefully, slowly, and deliberately tapping with one figure so as to not misclick further. Then, at the end, he declines to use the full screen QWERTY keyboard and uses the micro one for a whopping 3 characters.

    People using an iPhone would be flying through these tasks.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Notice they were running a custom touch skin so that WinMo 6.1 did not appear in the video, and the Toshiba exhibitioner did not use a stylus with that custom skin, believing a finger to be adequate.

    It was not, and small icons and Windows Mobile 6.1 had nothing to do with it.

    Not only did I see missed clicks in that video (The camera options menu around 2:15), but he was carefully, slowly, and deliberately tapping with one figure so as to not misclick further. Then, at the end, he declines to use the full screen QWERTY keyboard and uses the micro one for a whopping 3 characters.

    People using an iPhone would be flying through these tasks.
    The Toshiba phone has tiny buttons for the calendar that are clearly designed for the stylus hence why a big finger wouldn't work:

    Here's a Pre video, @1.14 their is a 'mis click' the screen fails to respond and scroll,



    Also the guy was moving the finger slowly as he was demonstrating the phone.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    You can use an orange peel on a capacitive touch screen.

    What? You can. Try it.
    Good to know on the offside chance my fingers are cut off while stuck in the middle of an orange grove
  11. #51  
    Sure wish the designers worked with spreadsheets. I want to see them stab a single cell with a finger. Ain't gonna work.
  12.    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Browse and post on a forum like this one and the advantages of capacitive touch become all too clear.
    Sorry, but I have absolutely no problem browsing or posting on this forum using my Treo.

    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    I'm forced to use the stylus on my Touch Pro because some Windows Mobile screen elements are just too small to engage with a finger. However, I'd rather _not_ have to pull out the stylus, and so I'm looking forward to an interface that's based on using one's finger(s) exclusively.
    I don't know that I call that an advantage. It seems to me that a capacitive screen forces the interface to use big interface elements, which means less information on any one screen, which means more scrolling or swapping of screens. That's going backwards in my book.


    Another advantage of capacitive is that it's less difficult to engage accidentally. For example, my Touch Pro is constantly dialing people randomly because something presses accidentally on the screen (and the damn thing won't stay turned off like it's supposed to). Capacitive screens can suffer from accidental skin touches, of course, which is why the Pre will have (and the iPhone has) a proximity sensor to turn off touch when you press it to your cheek.
    I guess I don't have this issue with my Treo either.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Another benefit is that gestures are much smoother since you don't have to apply heavy pressure for them to be recognized. I have the capacitive touch on my Dell XT tablet, and I never want to go back to resistive touch again.
    Not having used a capacitive screen yet, I guess I can't be sure, but I certainly don't think the screen on my Treo requires heavy pressure. Not even with a screen protector, and definitely not without.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outrigger View Post
    I for one would never pick up the Pre if it was resistive. It has nothing to do with having the same tech as apple, its called progress and capacitive is in no way inferior to resistive, its more like the other way around.
    I'll agree that the capacitive appears to have some advantages, based on what people have posted here, but it's no slam dunk as to which is superior. The technology has downsides, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by EeZeEpEe View Post
    Funny cause I never use my stylus. I used the 5-way navigation all the time. It's quicker and more efficient for me then to have to pull out and put back the stylus all the time.

    I believe there will actually be a multi-touch zoom feature on Classic to help with clicking smaller things.
    I wish the Pre had a 5-way. I agree that for many things it's the easiest, quickest interface device I've used on a mobile device. And the zoom feature on Classic is nothing but a work-around to the limitations of capacitive screens. Playing scrabble, with it's itty-bitty squares and letters, on the Pre sounds like more work than fun. Same for any other app that trys to maximize screen real-estate by using small interface elements.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The problem here is the definition of accuracy.

    Resistive screens often fail to register taps or finger presses (and sure, sometimes it's because you don't use enough pressure, but sometimes they just don't register). Hard to argue its objective superiority when you have to do things more than once or twice for it to work.

    Finger gestures are problematic, too.
    Don't know about finger gestures, but I really don't have any issues with the Treo registering my finger taps. And given that when I rub my finger across the screen I invariably select text, gestures seem to work ok, too.


    While it may be true that the capacitive screen work better with gestures, that advantage is not without a price. I think some things are going to be much more difficult to do on the Pre than on a Treo (like selecting specific text).
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  13. #53  
    why didnt palm go with the glass exterior like the iphone instead of the plastic
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
    The Toshiba phone has tiny buttons for the calendar that are clearly designed for the stylus hence why a big finger wouldn't work:

    Here's a Pre video, @1.14 their is a 'mis click' the screen fails to respond and scroll,



    Also the guy was moving the finger slowly as he was demonstrating the phone.
    Uh, no. He misses A swipe. One swipe among dozens in this video where the menu is responsive the entire time. And slowly? That's just crazy. The demonstrator is flying through menus and programs.

    I mean, I HAVE a resistive touchscreen phone that is meant to ape iPhone functionality AND I like it, but I also own an iPod Touch. It would be folly to act as if they're equivalent for finger usage. They just aren't.
  15. #55  
    Honestly, it seems like some of you need to use a capacitive screen before comparing a resistive screen to it. There's really absolutely no comparison. The only negative is that you can't use a stylus, but everything is moving away from styli anyway. They're clunky and devices / companies are moving to the future, which is using fingers for touch. For that, there's absolutely no way that a resistive touch screen makes sense.
  16. #56  
    A good resitive screen phone is the LG Dare in my opinion. But try to use it with the "pads" of your finger and it won't work so well... You practically have you use your nails with the screen...

    Now jump to the iphone, and touch with the pads of your fingers the same way... Lot easier right?

    /Demonstration over
    I love lolcats
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Sorry, but I have absolutely no problem browsing or posting on this forum using my Treo.
    Then I take it you're not looking at the full version fully rendered using only your fingers.

    I do on both an Instinct S30 and an iPod Touch. Try using your fingers to select a page in the thread. I do it in both the native Instinct browser and Opera Mini 4.2. To even have ANY chance of doing it in the native browser, you have to swipe the scroll bar to maximum zoom, and even then it takes between 1-5 tap attempts to select, say, page 2 of 3.

    Opera Mini only zooms so far, and beyond that...you just gotta get lucky.

    On a capacitive screen with multitouch, I pinch out to the appropriate zoom, tap it ONCE and it gets it right every time.

    Don't know about finger gestures, but I really don't have any issues with the Treo registering my finger taps. And given that when I rub my finger across the screen I invariably select text, gestures seem to work ok, too.

    While it may be true that the capacitive screen work better with gestures, that advantage is not without a price. I think some things are going to be much more difficult to do on the Pre than on a Treo (like selecting specific text).
    We'll have to see about selecting text, but I promise you the gestures aren't on the same level.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Not having used a capacitive screen yet, I guess I can't be sure, but I certainly don't think the screen on my Treo requires heavy pressure. Not even with a screen protector, and definitely not without.
    Then you really have to try a capacitive screen to judge. The response is so much better.

    Try this on a Treo:
    In Blazer, set "Tag and Drag" to Scrolls Page.
    Now try scrolling with the slightest touch of your finger, not finger nail. It won't go anywhere. And when you put more pressure and move up and down it's not exactly a smooth action on the screen.

    With finger gesture interfaces capacitive screens are a must! And all the talk about how accuracy isn't that good is garbage. I can click small links better on my iPod Touch then I can with my sister's Intinct which needs to zoom or use a stylus.

    Plain and simple:
    Resistive screens are better for stylus and smaller interfaces while capacitive screens are better for finger gestures.
    LG TP 1100 -> Sanyo SCP-5150 -> LG PM-325 -> Nokia 1100 -> Motorola v557 -> Treo 755p -> HTC EVO 4G

    Sprint customer since 2001
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Uh, no. He misses A swipe. One swipe among dozens in this video where the menu is responsive the entire time. And slowly? That's just crazy. The demonstrator is flying through menus and programs.

    I mean, I HAVE a resistive touchscreen phone that is meant to ape iPhone functionality AND I like it, but I also own an iPod Touch. It would be folly to act as if they're equivalent for finger usage. They just aren't.
    Hahahaha, the video of the Idou I posted also possibly featured A missed touch which you are only too happy to point out, yet when I DARE to post a video clearly showing a Palm Pre doing the EXACT SAME THING then you try to make it out as NO ISSUE.

    You are arguing EXACTLY like a classic Blind Apple fan where it's almost blasphemy to dare suggest your precious does the exact same thing your claiming it doesn't do!
    When you stop being hypocritical I shall continue.
    But unfortunately reading your other responses above I feel that is something your incapable of doing? You are simply REFUSING to accept what others are stating as their experiences in this thread because YOU have different experiences so according to YOU it's a FACT that we are all wrong and you are right.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
    Hahahaha, the video of the Idou I posted also possibly featured A missed touch which you are only too happy to point out, yet when I DARE to post a video clearly showing a Palm Pre doing the EXACT SAME THING then you try to make it out as NO ISSUE.

    You are arguing EXACTLY like a classic Blind Apple fan where it's almost blasphemy to dare suggest your precious does the exact same thing your claiming it doesn't do!
    When you stop being hypocritical I shall continue.
    But unfortunately reading your other responses above I feel that is something your incapable of doing? You are simply REFUSING to accept what others are stating as their experiences in this thread because YOU have different experiences so according to YOU it's a FACT that we are all wrong and you are right.
    Let's breathe, ok? Deep cleansing breaths. Whooo-sa. Whoo-sa.

    Take that finger off the Caps Lock key. Now, don't you feel better?

    Ok. It is not the same thing. He misses a swipe - a gesture - once in the Palm Pre video. Otherwise, his experience is fluid, fast, and accurate, with him quickly and repeatedly swiping the menus with no mistakes. And I'm not arguing in this thread as an advocate for the Pre. The iPhone has the exact same experience, and the G1 does for the most part as well. They are capacitive screen phones. They can't all be "my precious", so you sound kinda silly even making that analogy.

    By contrast, the entire Idou experience is slower, and the section I showed clearly shows a missed tap/click, which is the most basic interaction one can have with a touchscreen. Additionally, he used the onscreen keyboards (except for the T9 which had huge buttons. Must be a coincidence!) so slowly as to avoid further missed taps. I have a similar full touchscreen device with a resistive screen. If I used the keyboard in that fashion, I'd never make a mistake either, but I'd also never finish an email or text in under 5 minutes.

    And if you think my perspective on resistive vs. capacitive is my weird, individual take, you clearly haven't read this thread...or the Internet.

    If you like the Idou or another resistive screen device, great. Enjoy it. That's your opinion. This is my opinion. Let's leave it at that?
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