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  1. #21  
    Quick question, I have a Garmin Street Pilot C320 GPS that I got 3 years ago.
    The chargers look like they're either micro or mini USB but I can't tell.
    Anyone know if they would work with the Pre?
    Thanks for any help.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by pavvento View Post
    I searched through some of the videos but didn't hear it mentioned. Will the charger be a standard cable, or will it be proprietary. I remember having a Razr back in the day and although I had plenty of cables that 'fit' none of them could charge the phone because it wasn't a motorola cable.

    I plan on picking up a few cheap cables to keep in places I'd have to charge but wanted to know what you guys thought.
    There is no such thing as standard any more. Especially when it comes to charging.

    Indications are that for fast charging the micro usb will use use a pin 2 and pin 3 short ("data pin short"); but shorted shorted at the charger so the cable itself will be standard usb with non shorted pinouts.

    If you short the data pins at the charger, the cable can be standard even though the result is not standard. In such a scheme if the device to be charged sees no short on data lines it assumes transfer of data, and also assumes charging power available of <500 ma. If it sees a short on the data lines it assumes up to 1000 ma available.

    If they choose this scheme what you will likely see is a charger with a detachable cable. the cable will be standard usb A to micro b. As a result some usb micro chargers will work and some will not. Fortunately motorola uses this scheme in its Razr2 series fast chargers.

    A standard usb micro power supply with data lines not shorted should still charge but at considerably slower rate.

    In short there is a very good chance that Pre will use Pro scheme. This is usb micro 5v charging at either 500 ma if connected to normal usb pinouts, or 1000 ma if data pins are shorted and charger can push 1000 ma. If that is the case high capacity proven chargers for razr2 and for Pro will work fine.

    The difference between 500 ma and 1000 ma charging is not double the speed in charging but actually about 3x to 5x, or even faster, because the phone is already drawing an overhead itself. For example if you are running gps or wifi with screen on you could be drawing 400 ma leaving only 100 ma for charging. With a cheap charger it is even possible that you will discharge while hooked to charger.
    Last edited by aero; 05/12/2009 at 09:15 AM.
  3. #23  
    This is very similar to current Blackberries which have the ability to draw 100-500 mA from a computer USB port, 700 mA from their branded AC charger or 1.4A from their branded charging cradle. With batteries from 1150-1400mAh charging times can be dramatically different depending on the method used.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    Amp refers to the current the adapter is able to supply. As long as the voltage is within tolerance there are no issues. Lower current means the device will charge slower. Do you know back then in the early days of phones when there were "slow" chargers and "rapid" chargers, that was exactly what it is.
    Agreed--lower current is also okay. These systems are not just dumb analog components being put together. The USB standards ensure that anything that can be plugged in there will work (though the proper current rating will ensure the fastest charge).
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  5. #25  
    So the one thing that I think has been missed in all of this was the question as to whether or not it would work. I know that motorola has a valid charger check in there software that look for some signal that the charger sends (there is a chip in moto chargers). If you want to charge a moto via your computer you have to install the drivers and I have tried charging via a standard car charger with no luck, it just says invalid charger. So a valid question is, will they make you buy a palm charger?

    The other part is the micro vs. mini usb port. Micro usb is the usb type that was chosen by the GSM group to be the standard for phone chargers starting in 2010 or 2011 (can't remember the date). It is probably for the best that they went with it. You can buy $5 adaptors if you want to use your old cables or car chargers.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by patchs View Post
    Quick question, I have a Garmin Street Pilot C320 GPS that I got 3 years ago.
    The chargers look like they're either micro or mini USB but I can't tell.
    Anyone know if they would work with the Pre?
    Thanks for any help.
    No it is mini. The micro usb end has one side that has two little hooks and it is really thin.

    Not sure how long this link will work but here goes anyway:
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by lugose View Post
    No it is mini. The micro usb end has one side that has two little hooks and it is really thin.

    Not sure how long this link will work but here goes anyway:
    Thanks, much appreciated. Now I know I have to get an extra AC charger and a car one too.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Agreed--lower current is also okay. These systems are not just dumb analog components being put together. The USB standards ensure that anything that can be plugged in there will work (though the proper current rating will ensure the fastest charge).
    No, lower current is not always ok.

    I don't know what yo mean by standards. for charging there are multiple schemes and no standards.

    Also These devices have wifi and gps. That is why you see postings regularly about people with GPS on smartphones using their handsets as gps in their vehicles and the unit discharging and battery dying say 30 minutes of an hour after use.

    A cheap low amperage charger can easily be delivering less ma than the unit is consuming.

    There are multiple postings form users on forums using GPS and having their battery drain to nothing while "changing."
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    No, lower current is not always ok.

    I don't know what yo mean by standards. for charging there are multiple schemes and no standards.

    Also These devices have wifi and gps. That is why you see postings regularly about people with GPS on smartphones using their handsets as gps in their vehicles and the unit discharging and battery dying say 30 minutes of an hour after use.

    A cheap low amperage charger can easily be delivering less ma than the unit is consuming.

    There are multiple postings form users on forums using GPS and having their battery drain to nothing while "changing."
    Yeah, that's a good point. 1 microamp won't help very much. By "okay" I mean it won't blow anything up.

    I would love to see a chart with the power draw for the Pre under various circumstances. That would be fascinating. I would also love to not have to worry about it because the battery life is so exceptional. That would probably be a fantasy though.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    I would love to see a chart with the power draw for the Pre under various circumstances. That would be fascinating.
    No matter what effiecnies they have developed there is unlikely to be more than marginal efficiency on screen draw or the gps chip. so for example if you are using the gps with the screen on and a good brightness you could be adding 200 to 300 ma right there.

    It is certainly possible on several units out there to to run the battery down in two hours under certain uses so you could probably draw 400 or even 500 or more ma per hour. (the Pre is rumored to have an 1150 mah (milliamp hour) battery.)

    If you are at 20% remaining when you get in your car this means you have about 250 ma left on the battery and it needs 900 ma to gain full charge.

    If you are using 400 ma an hour and have a 500 ma charger, after 2 hours minutes you will have gained 100 ma an hour or just 200 ma on the battery. If you have a 1000 ma charger you will have gained 600 ma an hour and fully charged the battery even at the high use rate.

    I think if you wish to use the GPS the device, and have a one hour commute and have occasion to forget to charge each night, waiting until the Pre is out and the couple of dollars more for a good charger to insure you are covered is a good choice.

    One should also be aware there are generic chargers as low as 250 to 300 ma an hour capacity.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    .......snip....
    One should also be aware there are generic chargers as low as 250 to 300 ma an hour capacity.
    You wouldn't happen to know what the Sprint car charger (micro USB for 800/Pro etc.) is rated at, would you? I believe I had GPS, Trapster, and screen on about 80% brightness (jeep, no doors/top), with speakerphone at full + WOW HD audio boost for about 45 minutes, and the phone still charged a good bit. Just curious if the rating is out there.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by haydur View Post
    You can buy a Mini to Micro USB Converter adapter on eBay for less than $5 (with shipping)...
    Or $4.55 from Amazon. It's really not that big of a deal.
  13. #33  
    Amazon.com: Scosche Dual USB Car Charger: Electronics

    I use this in my car. So regardless of the USB connector on the phone (mini or micro), I can plug in the standard USB side of the cable and still charge my phone on the go.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    ......
    It is certainly possible on several units out there to to run the battery down in two hours under certain uses so you could probably draw 400 or even 500 or more ma per hour. (the Pre is rumored to have an 1150 mah (milliamp hour) battery.)
    ..........
    Hmmm turn on the GPS on an iPhone on in your car and drive for 30 mins. see how much battery is left.... I'm sure it's the same on most multi radio large screen devices though.
    HP200LX->Treo270->Treo600->Treo650->Treo680->Centro->iPhone3G->
    Treo680->TreoPro->iPhone3GS->PalmPre->HPPre2->HPVeer 2.2.3->HPPre3

  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget View Post
    Amazon.com: Scosche Dual USB Car Charger: Electronics

    I use this in my car. So regardless of the USB connector on the phone (mini or micro), I can plug in the standard USB side of the cable and still charge my phone on the go.
    Does this have the shorted data pins? ie will it charge a treopro? I manually soldered the pins on my adapters. It doesn't seem to affect the charging for other devices, but it sure makes a difference to the TP.
    HP200LX->Treo270->Treo600->Treo650->Treo680->Centro->iPhone3G->
    Treo680->TreoPro->iPhone3GS->PalmPre->HPPre2->HPVeer 2.2.3->HPPre3

  16. TomD's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post

    One should also be aware there are generic chargers as low as 250 to 300 ma an hour capacity.
    Aero, how do you find the current rating on these beasties?

    Not many give you a rating.
    Tom
    Pilot Prō --> M100 --> Trēō 600 --> Trēō 700p -- > Prē
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbmgreen View Post
    Hmmm turn on the GPS on an iPhone on in your car and drive for 30 mins. see how much battery is left.... I'm sure it's the same on most multi radio large screen devices though.
    I don't know/care about an iphone. I have used gps on palm 800w and palm treo pro. I use a motorola rapid charger for raz2 which is 1000 ma and it chargers very well with GPS (and screen) running as do some other charters. Others, report handsets discharging with some other chargers.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomD View Post
    Aero, how do you find the current rating on these beasties? Not many give you a rating.
    Tom, surprisingly it is now rare to see this rating marked on the charger. The razr22 spn5400a pushes out somewhere between 800 and 1000 ma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget View Post
    Amazon.com: Scosche Dual USB Car Charger: Electronics

    I use this in my car. So regardless of the USB connector on the phone (mini or micro), I can plug in the standard USB side of the cable and still charge my phone on the go.
    this is my point about misconceptions on standards. If you use a standard usb a to usb micro b cable on the device you have pictured that device you will have the data pins floating (not connected or shorted) and will be limited to 500 ma on a phone that requires a data pin short for charging over 500 ma.
  18. #38  
    If you want the best experience then in simple terms:

    Dont buy these 'USB port in your car!!!1!!1' things or cheapo generic chargers unless they give specific specs.

    Buy the Motorola rapid charger Aero mentioned or a Palm branded charger. Or buy an inverter and use the Palm branded AC adapter in the car.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by bryanharig View Post
    If you want the best experience then in simple terms:

    Dont buy these 'USB port in your car!!!1!!1' things or cheapo generic chargers unless they give specific specs.

    Buy the Motorola rapid charger Aero mentioned or a Palm branded charger. Or buy an inverter and use the Palm branded AC adapter in the car.
    What about the Sprint MicroUSB car chargers? Does anyone know the rating on those? It seems to charge my Pro MUCH faster than the house charger..
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