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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    Yes, you would have to wait a few seconds to load Music, maybe a few minutes for movies, when you want to swap them out - and only then. I forsee software that will give you a random selection of songs to load overnight, so you will not even have to wait. Movies for a flight? Yse you might have to plan ahead a few minutes. I find that to be a small price to pay for nearly unlimited storage. That makes 32gb seem paltry by comparison.
    Every web connected device has the same "unlimited storage." Let's not let Palm's use of the term cloud, as if it is anything new when it is not at all, confuse us into thinking that a Touch Pro, a Treo Pro, Blackberry or iPhone is not a equally a "cloud" device.

    I can see Palms reasoning. It was a compromise. It is not irrational. It is like the compromise on the smaller screen, the smaller battery etc. It helps bring the device to market at a price point that is sellable and one hopes profitable.

    But let's not on the other hand denegratr the rational view that more storage is appealing for rational reasons to everyone, and a key element for some portion of rational prospective buyers.

    Your argument extrapolated means that Palm never has to increase capacity. The simple fact is it is a certainty that the next upscale will be 16 gb and 32 GB after that.

    It also implies that they did not have a number of meetings figuring out inm their cost judgment what the sweet spot for them, given all their other considerations (near bankrupcy, competition, pricing) would be knowing more is better as a objective value feature and less is better considering their costs..
    If you are predicting that peopel will not want more and more mass sortage
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    Certainly not. But that does not mean it will not happen. Or that limitations in on board memory cannot be corrected. If there is a need it will be done. How about a program that swaps out recorded shows from you DVR ever night to watch on the subway on your morning commute. Enough people want it, I will be built.

    But even if it never is, it does not mean you yourself could not swap out your meadia, on you own nom-networked computer via drag and drop when you need a change. Is it ideal? Maybe not for you, but is extremely doable.
    So you are suggesting that Palm's poor decision can be mitigated by software that may or may not ever exist, and certainly wont exist at release time?
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    IMO Palm picked 8GB partly because they anticipated the current base iphone at 8GB. i expect a 16GB Pre will be introduced for the Christmas 2009 buying season.
    Why bother, they can just use "the cloud".
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    So I would need to wait for a movie to load locally, and the old data to be deleted before I can view it? No thanks. It probably would have cost Palm an extra 8 dollars per unit to add another 8 gig.
    You're obviously not thinking about the space constraints when designing this device. It's very likely that Palm couldn't physically fit more memory on at a cost-effective price. Sure, they could've put higher-density chips but that might've costed too much money for them to compete with the iPhone. I mean, if they leave out a microSD slot for the sake of saving space, don't you think they probably left out the memory just the same? It's the exact same reason why Apple hasn't made a 32GB iPhone for the better part of a year.

    I'm going to guess there will probably be a 16GB Pre at some point though. Or a 32GB!
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by beret9987 View Post
    You're obviously not thinking about the space constraints when designing this device. It's very likely that Palm couldn't physically fit more memory on at a cost-effective price. Sure, they could've put higher-density chips but that might've costed too much money for them to compete with the iPhone. I mean, if they leave out a microSD slot for the sake of saving space, don't you think they probably left out the memory just the same? It's the exact same reason why Apple hasn't made a 32GB iPhone for the better part of a year.

    I'm going to guess there will probably be a 16GB Pre at some point though. Or a 32GB!
    The 8 gig iPhones are the same size as the 16gig.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    So you are suggesting that Palm's poor decision can be mitigated by software that may or may not ever exist, and certainly wont exist at release time?
    "There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know." - Donald Rumsfeld
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    - They could have atleast matched the amount of its biggest competitor.
    Apparently, they didn't need to. Was that a mistake, guess we'll watch the sales of the devices, and decide then.

    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    - Most people waited years for the Pre, I don't think they will be willing to wait for a future higher storage version
    Agreed. Which is why it might not have been a "mistake" on Palm's part.

    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    - Dont ever infer anything about what Palm may or may not do in the future. There is nothing to suggest Palm wants media to ever to be added to the cloud.
    I don't think Palm is going to be the one that offers it. I think Palm will be selling devices, offering the WebOS, and dev kit, and will set back and see what others do with it all.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post

    Plam made a decision. That the cloud would be the answer. If that was a bad decision, they will have another shot with the next device. I don't begrudge them that.
    .
    are you sure they'll have another shot if they blow this one? cash is burning and cash is finite.

    "Death can come swiftly to a market leader. By the time you have lost the positive-feedback cycle it's often too late to change what you've been doing, and all of the elements of a negative spiral come into play." - Bill Gates, "The Road Ahead", Chapter 3

    "In this business, by the time you realize you're in trouble, it's too late to save yourself. Unless you're running scared all the time, you're gone." - Bill Gates
  9. #149  
    The 8GB is inexcusable. I don't care what any Palm apologist says.

    The Apple ads are already probably being made:

    We released 8gb device 2 years ago, the best palm can do is use 2 year old tech in their advanced phone.

    They win the ad.

    Cloud and off device storage isn't feasible even for desktops on wired connections. Which is why we are still storing stuff on hard drives and they are still making larger and faster drives. Even super fast FIOS connections take a long time to download large video files and trust me Sprint has no desire for people to be streaming large music and video files every day from Cloud.

    It is a foolish mistake to release with only an 8gb option when they could have a limited supply 16 gb version available. Charge whatever the hell they want, make much more profit on something that probably cost them less than $20 to make.

    They certainly don't have a problem charging high prices, look at the $70 phone charger.

    On top of this, the Iphone's new version will be 32 GB and if it is sold at the same price point as the Pre, $199 then Palm will have an uphill marketing battle on their hands.

    Sure, most people probably don't even use 8gb of space. The perception that you are getting more is hardware wise is hard to overcome regardless if they will use it or not.

    Stupid move. No reason they should be taking chances like that in their current financial condition.
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    The 8 gig iPhones are the same size as the 16gig.
    Yea I know, I happen to own both still but I'm talking about the memory chips themselves. Apple could only fit a couple(or even just one) on the iPhone mainboard, due to the fact that the cell radio took up the other spot for another memory chip, which is why the iPod Touch has always had more memory than its iPhone brethren, because it lacks the cellular radio! With the Pre being such a small device as I said, I would imagine that they have similar space constraints as Apple had with designing the iPhone's mainboard. I guess we'll never know until someone takes it apart but I don't think Palm would miss an oppurtunity to try and one up Apple in the storage department, let alone ANY feature department :P
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    But you certainly would need to open up ports if you expect to sync any type of data via the internet from your desktop. Thats the point.
    Yes, and I don't think such a system would be used at the desktop behind a corporate firewall. I do think home users would use such a system. I believe we'll see such systems offered.

    Please note too, that this would be an expansion of the old local synchronization. For those that wanted it, it this would extend synchronization beyond "local" (wired, IR, and BlueTooth). For those that didn't want it extended, they'd still have wired and BT (IR is gone...).
  12. #152  
    is it possible that Apple will announce a 64GB iphone in June? what are the implications of that if any vis a vis the Pre?
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    So you are suggesting that Palm's poor decision can be mitigated by software that may or may not ever exist, and certainly wont exist at release time?
    Close, but not quite.

    I'm saying that the drawbacks of all systems are mitigated by the systems that become available after the device is released (Office didn't come on my original computer, but it did come).

    Palm sells devices. If the launch is successful, then their decisions were good.
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Every web connected device has the same "unlimited storage." Let's not let Palm's use of the term cloud, as if it is anything new when it is not at all, confuse us into thinking that a Touch Pro, a Treo Pro, Blackberry or iPhone is not a equally a "cloud" device.

    I can see Palms reasoning. It was a compromise. It is not irrational. It is like the compromise on the smaller screen, the smaller battery etc. It helps bring the device to market at a price point that is sellable and one hopes profitable.

    But let's not on the other hand denegratr the rational view that more storage is appealing for rational reasons to everyone, and a key element for some portion of rational prospective buyers.

    Your argument extrapolated means that Palm never has to increase capacity. The simple fact is it is a certainty that the next upscale will be 16 gb and 32 GB after that.

    It also implies that they did not have a number of meetings figuring out inm their cost judgment what the sweet spot for them, given all their other considerations (near bankrupcy, competition, pricing) would be knowing more is better as a objective value feature and less is better considering their costs..
    If you are predicting that peopel will not want more and more mass sortage
    Maybe people will not require more storage in future devices. Perhaps, cloud based computing (unheard of a few years ago) will become so efficient that with 4G speeds, having more and more storage on board will become less ans less financially sound, or will become less of a feature. To assume we know exactly what the market forces will produce in a few years is folly.

    You are right, even on the iPhone, you have unlimited off device storage options. And limited on board options. If I have 64GB of media on my computer, I can select only have of it for my new rumored 32GB iPhone. The same calculation will have to go for the Pre.

    What I believe Palm is envisioning, however, is that less and less will you have to make that choice, due to cloud computing. I do not think it is a give that we will see a 16GB Pre in December. That depends on a lot of factors, the first being how well this Pre does, 2nd how soon we have 4g, and 3rd how well the software works.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  15. #155  
    i remember a few years ago when people were proclaiming that the "PC is dead" and everyone would use a dumb terminal. "The Network is the Computer". how did that work out for Sun?
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    The 8GB is inexcusable. I don't care what any Palm apologist says.

    The Apple ads are already probably being made:

    We released 8gb device 2 years ago, the best palm can do is use 2 year old tech in their advanced phone.

    They win the ad.

    Cloud and off device storage isn't feasible even for desktops on wired connections. Which is why we are still storing stuff on hard drives and they are still making larger and faster drives. Even super fast FIOS connections take a long time to download large video files and trust me Sprint has no desire for people to be streaming large music and video files every day from Cloud.

    It is a foolish mistake to release with only an 8gb option when they could have a limited supply 16 gb version available. Charge whatever the hell they want, make much more profit on something that probably cost them less than $20 to make.

    They certainly don't have a problem charging high prices, look at the $70 phone charger.

    On top of this, the Iphone's new version will be 32 GB and if it is sold at the same price point as the Pre, $199 then Palm will have an uphill marketing battle on their hands.

    Sure, most people probably don't even use 8gb of space. The perception that you are getting more is hardware wise is hard to overcome regardless if they will use it or not.

    Stupid move. No reason they should be taking chances like that in their current financial condition.
    Sadly, looks like how things are going to go. If the Pre had a microSD slot, then almost none of this would be a huge issue. You'd think they would put it on the back where the battery is but I guess there was REALLY no room. Who knows, maybe Sprint will heavily subsadize the Pre and have us just pay 100 bucks out the door, that'd be nice...
  17. #157  
    Dear Lord,

    Thanks for everything you've done for me, but may I ask for one more teeny, tiny favor? Pretty please let something significant regarding the Pre happen today and every other day leading to the release date announcement so that we can stop "Groundhog Day"-ing this 8GB/32GB argument every 48 hours or so.

    Granted, you should probably look this up after tending to the suffering of the world, but I understand you're an ace multi-tasker.

    Your loving servant,

    Mikah912
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Every web connected device has the same "unlimited storage." Let's not let Palm's use of the term cloud, as if it is anything new when it is not at all, confuse us into thinking that a Touch Pro, a Treo Pro, Blackberry or iPhone is not a equally a "cloud" device.
    ...
    I think that one of the big things that differentiates the Pre from those devices that you listed is the WebOS. This is an OS that is designed for the cloud, rather then one that will simply use it, as the devices you mentioned do.

    I think that because of WebOS, we are going to see more apps (and services) that utilize the cloud.

    The Pre is a device that was designed, from the ground up, to be "always connected". That will begin to spill over into virtually everything that is done on the Pre.
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    So you are suggesting that Palm's poor decision can be mitigated by software that may or may not ever exist, and certainly wont exist at release time?
    I am not suggesting it was a poor decision to include only 8GB. I am suggesting we will not know that until the phone is released and we can see how well it sells. What I am suggesting is that for individuals like yourself, who are suggesting it was a mistake, that there is currently an optional work-a-round for you, and will likely be better options for you in the future, to correct what you perceive is a problem.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  20. #160  
    I love how everyone is assuming we'll be able to stream video and music from cloud when I don't recall ever reading anything about storage or capabilities like that. The only info I've seen on it is automatically pulling contacts, calendars and emails.

    So unless you have some documentation on a HUGE feature that somehow flew under everyone radar and we are all going to get 10gb of cloud storage which we can stream any files we want with this nifty file browser and all that please stop the mindless banter about something that is most likely impossible.

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