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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Your deductive reasoning is **** poor. Sorry to be so harsh, but it is.
    And the Mikah attacks have begun. Every thread you participate in turns into this.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hair View Post
    Yeah, RIM is so successful because of their dual-mode phones.

    Oh, wait, it's because they pioneered push e-mail? Yeah, that's it.
    RIM are successful because they know how to serve their most important customers and business partners such as corporate IT depts and Verizon wireless.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hair View Post
    Yeah, RIM is so successful because of their dual-mode phones.

    Oh, wait, it's because they pioneered push e-mail? Yeah, that's it. There's a reason why Palm used to dominate the smartphone market - because they got it right before everybody else. You do it first, you do it better, you build a reputation, and you build a large and loyal customer base. RIM is known for their first-class email, not their dual-mode phones.
    Building a loyal customer base should include these types of considerations.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    And the Mikah attacks have begun. Every thread you participate in turns into this.
    Well, Mikah is right: "causation is not the same as correlation." RIM's success has little to do with their CDMA/GSM hybrids.
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hair View Post
    Well, Mikah is right: "causation is not the same as correlation." RIM's success has little to do with their CDMA/GSM hybrids.
    And you know this how?
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hair View Post
    Phones like the 8830 are more a ploy to gain market in the corporate space, as the first thing jet-setting corporate types would do is get a GSM phone, automatically disqualifying Verizon and Sprint from contention.
    You are contradicting yourself here. You admit that without the 8830, Verizon and Sprint would be automatically disqualified from contention from some corporate accounts. How is offering a product that meets your potential customers needs a ploy? In the corporate world, those who travel on business are more likely to be issued with a BB than those who don't so not supporting GSM eliminates a lot of customers.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hair View Post
    You're dooming the PrPrPr&#$275$; $to$ $failure$ $over$ $the$ $lacking$ $of$ $a$ $niche$ $feature$ $that$'$s$ $not$ $even$ $a$ $secondary$ $concern$ $to$ $Palm$'$s$ $target$ $market$. $I$'$d$ $say$ $that$'$s$ $harping$. $I$ $don$'$t$ $want$ $everybody$ $to$ $agree$ - $that$'$d$ $be$ $boring$ - $but$ $you$'$re$ $not$ $looking$ $at$ $the$ $big$ $picture$ $here$.
    Please show me where I have doomed the Pre to failure. I look forward to owning one.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    RIM are successful because they know how to serve their most important customers and business partners such as corporate IT depts and Verizon wireless.
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Building a loyal customer base should include these types of considerations.
    What do you see Blackberry users doing all the time? Is it raving about their phone's international roaming capabilities? Nope! They're buzzing and binging with new emails, because that's what Blackberries do best.

    I play a Buffet clarinet because I think they're the best clarinets. Some Buffet clarinets come with extra keys, but I don't find them necessary, so I don't own such a horn. Now, Buffet's success in this world is not because they offer clarinets with extra keys - it's because their clarinets in general are superbly made.

    RIM is in the same boat - people buy one because they want a device that does email and messaging exceptionally well. Some CDMA Blackberries have a GSM radio for the people that think that is necessary, but judging by the fact that the majority of CDMA Blackberries do not have a second GSM radio, I must come to the conclusion that such dual-mode devices are not the secret sauce behind RIM's success.
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    That's why RIM is one of the few very successful phone manufactures right now.
    There you have it folks, the secret of RIM's success! Now all we have to do is get Palm to copy that secret, and they're set!
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    And you know this how?
    Because I can look at their product line-up and sales. Verizon has five Blackberries available, two are dual-mode devices - the 8830 and Storm. The others - Pearl 8130, Curve 8330, and the 8703e - are not. Which of those have sold the best? The Pearl and the Curve. They're cheap, they're easy, they suit the needs of the majority customer base.
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    There you have it folks, the secret of RIM's success! Now all we have to do is get Palm to copy that secret, and they're set!
    I'm confused... the iPhone's not available on CDMA at all. Is it considered to be a success?
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  12. jsage's Avatar
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    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hair View Post
    Hey now, that's not necessary and in no way advances the debate.
    hair, there is no debate, just simple-minded contradiction.



    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Anybody who has any problems with the Pre is a troll.
    mobilehat, anyone who mindlessly continues to provoke argument while ignoring the reasonable facts presented is a troll.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hair View Post
    I'm confused... the iPhone's not available on CDMA at all. Is it considered to be a success?
    Not sure what this has to do with anything. But I can use my iPhone in this country, and most other countries (if I agree to pay the overpriced roaming). Can't say the same for the Pre.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    There you have it folks, the secret of RIM's success! Now all we have to do is get Palm to copy that secret, and they're set!
    Agreed. RIM takes into consideration factor that other companies do not. Make you customers happy. Seems to be working for them. Ignoring customers is something Palm has been doing. How is it working for them?
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hair View Post
    Because I can look at their product line-up and sales. Verizon has five Blackberries available, two are dual-mode devices - the 8830 and Storm. The others - Pearl 8130, Curve 8330, and the 8703e - are not. Which of those have sold the best? The Pearl and the Curve. They're cheap, they're easy, they suit the needs of the majority customer base.
    my goodness. Maybe Palm should also consider the minority customer.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Not sure what this has to do with anything. But I can use my iPhone in this country, and most other countries (if I agree to pay the overpriced roaming). Can't say the same for the Pre.
    Right now. Here's the dirty little secret: there's a GSM version coming. Palm's even admitted as much.

    While the linked page says that it will be set-up for international GSM bands, the fact that they've supposedly signed with Telefonica means that the GSM PrPrPr&#$275$; $will$ $have$ $to$ $use$ $the$ $same$ $bands$ $as$ $the$ $US$ $to$ $be$ $fully$ $functional$ $in$ $South$ $America$.
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by jsage View Post
    mobilehat, anyone who mindlessly continues to provoke argument while ignoring the reasonable facts presented is a troll.
    You mean anybody that doesn't agree with you is a troll. Sad, but funny.
  18. DHart's Avatar
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    274 Global Posts
    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Calling dual mode CDMA/GSM a gimmick is ridiculous. Some of the many employees in my company that need to travel internationally DO use Verizon, they carry a dual CDMA/GSM Blackberry 8830. The Curves are all AT&T or T-Mobile. We used to have some AT&T GSM Treos but now all devices are Blackberrys. If Verizon didn't offer the 8830, there probably wouldn't be any Verizon BBs in the company.
    YES - they carry a dual CDMA/GSM phone so they can use the GSM network that is predominant across the globe. There are BILLIONS of GSM users globally and MILLIONS of CDMA users.

    I am not calling a dual mode phone ridiculous. Mobileman said it was ridiculous that Palm is not offering a Pre that is dual mode. The reality is that GSM is predominant globally. The segment of the market requiring a dual mode phone is very small. The largest GSM provider in the US is locked into the iPhone camp. It is not difficult to understand why Palm made the choice they did as a first entrance into the market for the Pre.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hair View Post
    Right now. Here's the dirty little secret: there's a GSM version coming. Palm's even admitted as much.

    While the linked page says that it will be set-up for international GSM bands, the fact that they've supposedly signed with Telefonica means that the GSM PrPrPr&#$275$; $will$ $have$ $to$ $use$ $the$ $same$ $bands$ $as$ $the$ $US$ $to$ $be$ $fully$ $functional$ $in$ $South$ $America$.
    nope, that's a link to a GSM version of the Pre that has absolutely no set release date yet. Again, RIM and Verizon recognize that there are US users that want the Verizon coverage while in the US, and that might also want to use their phone overseas. Why are you having such a hard time with this concept?
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    my goodness. Maybe Palm should also consider the minority customer.


    It's the first WebOS device, what do you expect, a rainbow generator and your own personal leprechaun?

    Palm wants a device out the door that they can sell a lot of. They'll sell a lot of CDMA PrPrPr&#$275$; $phones$ $regardless$ $of$ $whether$ $or$ $not$ $they$ $can$ $roam$ $international$. $It$'$s$ $not$ $a$ $huge$ $issue$ $for$ $their$ $target$ $customer$. $And$ $for$ $those$ $that$ $need$ $international$ $roaming$, $there$'$ll$ $be$ $a$ $GSM$ $version$. $Palm$ $isn$'$t$ $going$ $after$ $RIM$'$s$ $corporate$ $customers$ - $they$'$re$ $more$ $after$ $the$ $type$ $of$ $people$ $that$ $are$ $apt$ $to$ $buy$ $an$ $iPhone$, $and$ $most$ $of$ $them$ $don$'$t$ $care$ $about$ $international$ $roaming$.
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
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