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  1. gbp
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    The iPhone OS is based on the Mac OS X which itself is based on the NeXt OS. The NeXt OS was built on the MACH micro kernal from Carnagie Mellon University (with BSD apis and an an Objective C based GUI toolkit).

    Windows NT was also originally based on a microkernal architecture. Commercial OS implementations have moved away from that approach due to performance issues switching the CPU between user and kernal mode.

    Some Apple applications on the IPhone do use multitasking for background processing (e.g. the Phone App, the Music player, the service that can talk to Exchange Server). Third Party apps are not allowed too.
    Thanks for the info , but I am aware of most of the content.

    The issue is creating APIs (or modifying) as part of devkit for iphone.

    Yes , background processes are done in by APPLE ( phone, email) , but when it comes to giving the multitasking ability to third party the APIs need to be designed in such a way that they will not contradict the existing behavior i.e. press center the button the app exits , then a new one gets loaded.

    Testing the compatibility of the existing apps is another issue.
    APPLE pretty much controls the behind the scenes of OS ( processes, threads, memory , I/O ...) and tunes it for its own services. The same cannot be said once they let the third parties do it.
  2. gbp
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    "Wait...why can't I do X?"
    "Because I said so."
    +1
    Yup.
    I am the master, you the pupil.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    While sprint keep claiming "best selling " ... i wouldn't seriously consider that.
    If they really sold them well and kept adding customers , they would have given numbers. ATT & APPLE publicize the numbers. ATT & APPLE provide specific numbers ( like they sold 5 million in three months of 2009).

    I respectfully disagree with anyone who says sprint sold instincts and made money. Sure they might have sold them , but who is counting the returns.
    I can name a sprint store that had 60 % returns on the instincts they sold.
    Ok...but I published numbers.

    "The PDA and Touch device category ARPU exceeds $80, and the number of CDMA subscribers with PDA and touch devices grew 125%. Sprint’s industry-leading CDMA data ARPU of $17.75 has grown by 21%. The Smartphone and Touch categories accounted for about 30% of its handheld device sales, driven by strong sales from Instinct and HTC Touch Pro."

    This is the only part of Sprint's business that is really growing, and the growth is spurred by both the HTC Touch Pro and the Instinct. Since we're talking Q4, and the Touch Pro only launched in November, it's safe to say that the Instinct sales went a good way toward "CDMA subscribers with PDA and touch devices grew 125%" and that the Everything plans that came with that went a good way to "Sprint’s industry-leading CDMA data ARPU of $17.75 has grown by 21%"

    I don't really see what there is to argue with or disbelieve.
  4. #44  
    The comments on this story on Engadget are priceless:

    Leaked AT&T doc slams the Palm Pre

    Ahhh good ol' Interwebnetz fighting at it's finest.
    Palm History: Palm III>IIIc>CLIÉ NR70v>CLIÉ TG50>Tungsten C>Treo 650>Treo 700p>Centro>Pre!! 6/5/09
    Phone History: Way too long

    Sorry Timmy, SERO does not work with the Pre.
    If you have an iTouch click me.
  5. DHart's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    The iPhone OS has always had multitasking. Developers just aren't allowed to run stuff in the background.
    if that's true (not saying it is not), then why hasn't it been implemented? Especially in light of a new phone OS that does support it?

    Why wouldn't Apple want to support it?
  6. dtokarz's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    if that's true (not saying it is not), then why hasn't it been implemented? Especially in light of a new phone OS that does support it?

    Why wouldn't Apple want to support it?
    Its not optimized for their OS. It will kill their battery life.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    if that's true (not saying it is not), then why hasn't it been implemented? Especially in light of a new phone OS that does support it?

    Why wouldn't Apple want to support it?
    App store with tens of thousands of apps + No real memory management + Already taxed battery life = That's why.
  8. DHart's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    App store with tens of thousands of apps + No real memory management + Already taxed battery life = That's why.

    I see. So yes, I can use two cans and a string as a "phone", but really not so much.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    I see. So yes, I can use two cans and a string as a "phone", but really not so much.
    It'll certainly help your battery life.
    "'Form follows function' — that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    if that's true (not saying it is not), then why hasn't it been implemented? Especially in light of a new phone OS that does support it?

    Why wouldn't Apple want to support it?
    Its about control. They don't want third party developers taking CPU cycles.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    App store with tens of thousands of apps + No real memory management + Already taxed battery life = That's why.
    No real memory management? Aside from not being true, this has nothing to do with multitasking.

    Sadly the only Smartphone OS lacking "real" memory management is PalmOS.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    No real memory management? Aside from not being true, this has nothing to do with multitasking.

    Sadly the only Smartphone OS lacking "real" memory management is PalmOS.
    Because it doesn't need it. You can run only one app at a time (with few exceptions).
    "'Form follows function' — that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  13. DHart's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Its about control. They don't want third party developers taking CPU cycles.
    And why would that be? Maybe because the hardware and the OS can't support a true multitasking scenario where a user can just use it and not have to think about it?

    It's like the old joke about the man who wanted to buy a suit. He's trying it on and complains to the taylor about how it doesn't fit right in several places. The taylor has him hold the jacket up with his chin, clamp another part of the jacket with his elbow, and hold up the crotch with one of his hands. He buys the suit based on such a "good" fit.

    Later two old ladies spot this man walking down the street. One says "Look at that poor man" because he has to walk like ***** to hold his suit in place. The other old lady says, "Yes, but doesn't his suit fit nicely."

    It's like that. Yes it can do it, but not really.
  14. #54  
    Reading that doc and the fanboy comments on Engadget makes my head hurt.

    Let me get it straight, point by point:

    3.1-in touchscreen display vs 3.5-in multitouch screen display
    D**k-measuring contest, IMO. It's a tradeoff. Pre's more compact and easy to put in the pocket, iPhone's thinner. And if I'm not mistaken the Pre has multitouch too and they decide to hide that fact.

    Full QWERTY-keyboard vs On screen QWERTY keyboard
    Onscreen keyboards just won't work after you've had a physical one. I tried it in the Apple Store the other day and it's just not comfortable and inaccurate.

    Limited to 8GB storage / Available black only vs Up to 16GB memory / available in black and white
    OK, I'll give you the 16GB part. But who says Palm won't do a higher capacity version? Oh, while you're at it, find me a white 8GB iPhone.

    Unproven App Catalog app store vs Over 25000 available apps
    Yes, I need 10 variations of a fart program. And let's forget all the Palm OS programs that will be available at launch.

    Limited 3D gaming experience with webOS constraints
    Fine, I'll give you that one. Palm, hurry up with the full SDK.

    Touchscreen control gestures not intuitive vs Patented Multi-Touch screen / Fast and responsive navigation
    May I ask, have you used it yet, or are you Angelina Jolie? And don't get me started on the smooth part. And notice how the two parts aren't mutually exclusive.

    No synch capability; must drag and drop tracks from PC vs Built-in widescreen iPod with full iTunes integration
    Yes, because I love how iTunes suck up all my computer's memory when I can just drag the files like a USB drive, like a zillion other MP3 players can. Oh, by the way, can I sync that iPhone with my Bluetooth? I'm sure the Pre can, since it supports OBEX.

    Amazon MP3 vs iTunes store
    I don't see any issues.

    Not a world phone; no GSM capability means Pre does not work overseas vs Voice roaming to over 205 countries
    Yes, because I love paying AT&T's roaming rates. Not to mention we've seen a GSM version already. But fine, I'll give you that one since I'm waiting for the GSM version myself too. Palm, hurry up with that GSM version.

    Can't receive map updates or location assist information in most of the world due to lack of GSM capability vs Global GPS; aGPS for maximum speed, accuracy and reliablity even in built-up areas
    See above. And the Pre DOES do A-GPS.

    Limited free Wi-Fi access vs Free data connections at over 17,000 AT&T Wi-Fi hotspots including Starbucks; Wi-Fi connections worldwide
    What does that have to do with the hardware? Fine, if you're talking about the service, I'll give you that one, since I don't know much about Sprint's. And yes, the Pre can't use those "Wi-Fi connections worldwide"... or can it? Last I checked the Pre does 802.11b/g.

    Business: No global roaming, limited global GPS
    Do you have to repeat your point so many times?

    Very limited business applications at launch vs JD Power and Associate Business Wireless Smartphone Customer Satisfaction Survey Winner
    Satisfaction =/= complete support. Let's not forget most companies uses Blackberries. The iPhone is an IT department's nightmare. As far as I'm concerned Palm has a track record of having BlackBerry Connect up to the Centro, but that was BlackBerry's fault for cutting the line, Nokia was a victim too. But Nokia's getting BB Connect back soon, so I wouldn't be surprised if some time down the line the Pre will get it too. Try that with an iPhone.
  15. #55  
    I saw some AT&T commercial claiming they had the fastest 3G network. Cool, Sprint is coming out with a 4G network.
    Palm M100 => Treo 755P => Treo 800w => Treo 755p => Palm Pre => No more Palm/HP products
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    No real memory management? Aside from not being true, this has nothing to do with multitasking.

    Sadly the only Smartphone OS lacking "real" memory management is PalmOS.
    Is this is "not true", then why do developers post stuff like this?
  17. #57  
    Is the pre going to have a sd slot?
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by nosepicker View Post
    Is the pre going to have a sd slot?
    *sigh* No.
    "'Form follows function' — that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by nojok3 View Post
    I saw some AT&T commercial claiming they had the fastest 3G network. Cool, Sprint is coming out with a 4G network.
    That is still not even true. Sprints EVDO is faster than any other US carrier.
    Palm History: Palm III>IIIc>CLIÉ NR70v>CLIÉ TG50>Tungsten C>Treo 650>Treo 700p>Centro>Pre!! 6/5/09
    Phone History: Way too long

    Sorry Timmy, SERO does not work with the Pre.
    If you have an iTouch click me.
  20. Libb's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    No real memory management? Aside from not being true, this has nothing to do with multitasking.

    Sadly the only Smartphone OS lacking "real" memory management is PalmOS.
    Have you ever used the iPhone or iPod Touch for an extended period of time? Safari is horrendously crashy, even if you have no other apps running in the background. Many games warn you to restart your device before playing, or you might have crashing issues. Most people think that it's just because it's buggy, but if you have a jailbroken device (as I do), you can watch the memory consumption and watch as Safari sucks it all down and runs out, causing itself to crash. (and don't give me the rubbish that my jailbreaking it caused the instability, I know of many other users with un-jailbroken devices that complain of the exact same symptoms.)

    The reason Apple refuses to do multi-tasking on the iPhone is because they made a very foolish design decision to only put 128MB of RAM in the device. That sounds like a lot for a mobile device, until you remember that it is running a (rather sloppily ported) version of a desktop OS, and a notoriously RAM-hungry one at that. With no apps or third-party daemons running on my jailbroken phone, I usually hover around 40MB free, and apps can take up anywhere from 8MB for simple ones to every last drop for complex games or just a few tabs open in Safari. The device just can't handle multiple apps running, beyond the limited Apple-blessed processes.

    So yes, the iPhone most assuredly needs a memory management system.
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