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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by bryanharig View Post
    Using WIMAX as an internet connection yes. With voice over CDMA. And Data over CDMA too for those times when you are outside Clear's miniscule coverage areas.
    You have to understand that the two competing cellular technologies we are dealing with are GSM and CDMA. The data parts are mostly what everyone is trying to upgrade and from what I know are kinda separate and run on different channels.

    For CDMA, 1XRT and it's successor EVDO only do data.

    For GSM, GPRS and it's successor EDGE only do data.

    **There is the successor for EDGE which is HSDPA which runs on UMTS. Far as I know UMTS runs on a GSM system but is sort of a modified GSM system which is a simple but costly migration path for operators to take.**

    This now takes us to 4G:
    LTE and WiMAX this is the biggest part of 4G. LTE which is going to be used on most other networks is WiMAX's cousin. And far as I know LTE is data only as well.

    Right now Sprint has the jump on 4G coverage with WiMAX so they will actually have more 4G coverage first. When LTE eventually launches they could catch up or overtake WiMAX but nobody knows for sure if or when.

    What's interesting to note is because LTE and WiMAX are similar Sprint could always change it's mind and go with LTE.

    I'm not an engineer or really an expert on this stuff but this is my understanding.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    ...

    When LTE eventually launches they could catch up or overtake WiMAX but nobody knows for sure if or when.

    What's interesting to note is because LTE and WiMAX are similar Sprint could always change it's mind and go with LTE.

    I'm not an engineer or really an expert on this stuff but this is my understanding.
    LTE has been chosen by Verizon, AT&T, Vodaphone and just about every other wireless carrier on earth who has made any information about their 4g plan public.

    WIMAX was chosen by Sprint who then spun it off into a partnership with Clear and a few other small ISPs worldwide.

    It isnt an issue of "if" LTE will overtake WIMAX. LTE is the future for the wireless carriers and will run on their existing 800 and 1900mhz spectrum (+the 700mhz chunk Verizon bought) as a replacement for their current networks. WIMAX is a separate technology running on Sprint's 2500(?)mhz spectrum they got in the Nextel rebanding deal that is being sold as a "mobile ISP".

    LTE is designed to be a full voice and data replacement for both HSPA and CDMA. You are right that there are a lot of similarities in the technology, I believe Intel has said they will be working on hybrid chips that can support both. But this isnt a sign of WIMAX dominance. It is a sign that Intel realizes their baby (WIMAX) has gotten its clock cleaned in the market and it is time to support the winner, LTE.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by bryanharig View Post
    LTE is the future for the wireless carriers and will run on their existing 800 and 1900mhz spectrum... WIMAX is a separate technology running on Sprint's 2500(?)mhz spectrum.
    They are both separate technologies and what spectrum they run on is a matter of what licenses the operators own and what the optimal frequency the system works best on. Both these technologies are a huge migration for the carriers and I don't think one is much easier then the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by bryanharig View Post
    LTE is designed to be a full voice and data replacement for both HSPA and CDMA.
    I don't think that is correct. LTE just like WiMAX is an all IP mobile network, if they are using voice over LTE then they have to be using a VoIP solution which I believe is the same goal for WiMAX.

    Look I personally think Sprint should have gone with LTE so I'm not trying to argue on that point but it's hard to call anyone a "winner" when the network isn't even deployed. I'm just stating the facts and the fact is Sprint is first and already running a 4G network.

    One thing to keep in mind is WiMAX was built from the ground up to be a full broadband internet access service. WiMAX targets everything from cameras to anything that today has WiFi embedded in it, not just mobile phones. WiMAX is a more open standard then LTE.
    Last edited by deesugar; 04/15/2009 at 04:51 PM.
  4.    #24  
    The discussion provided has been very informative. Initially, I was actually expecting some really vague statements & answers with no evidence or reasons to back up their point (as well as the internet slurry of insults & off-topic comments), but rather instead the level of maturity and knowledge really fleshed out my questions & concerns which is really refreshing.

    At first I was really bummed out about the lack of feature & was starting to wonder about what direction I should make for my future choice, but after the discussion & explaining potential vs probable scenarios i feel much more sound and confident in my future decision. Thanks everyone, i'll be sure to visit the site on the new pre (hopefully soon)
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    They are both separate technologies and what spectrum they run on is a matter of what licenses the operators own and what the optimal frequency the system works best on. Both these technologies are a huge migration for the carriers and I don't think one is much easier then the other.

    Looking at the spectrum can give you valuable clues as to the role of the technology using them. For example the 8xxmhz and 1900mhz PCS spectrum are gold. That is the most valuable and useful spectrum the carriers own and they base their current networks off it. No surprise, that is where LTE is going. Sprint(now Clear) used a much higher frequency for WIMAX. Higher frequency = smaller area covered by each cell site. That is great for a dense network that need to provide a lot of bandwidth to a lot of users simultaneously. That is perfect for what WIMAX will be used for, replacing a fixed internet connection in dense urban areas. But it would be awful to build a nationwide network with. Trying to get equivalent coverage to a 8xx or 1900 network with 2500 would be unbelievably expensive once you get out of the cities.

    The 700mhz spectrum Verizon bought is actually the most interesting. It gives tremendous range and will be great for rural, lower bandwidth coverage where a lot of users can share one tower that covers a ton of area. And that is Verizons goal. They have stated they will use it to provide ISP type services in rural areas using LTE as a network technology. This surprised me as WIMAX would probably be a better technology to use in that role. I imagine they decided based on economies of scale and the cost savings of using the same technology on both their networks. It goes to show just how pervasive LTE will be when it displaces WIMAX in WIMAX's own niche.


    I don't think that is correct. LTE just like WiMAX is an all IP mobile network, if they are using voice over LTE then they have to be using a VoIP solution which I believe is the same goal for WiMAX.

    It is correct. I dont know any other way to put it more plainly. It might be a future possibility with WIMAX but it is the way LTE will be from day one. There are a lot of things that are possible with WIMAX, the point is if no one uses it who cares? It is VHS and Beta all over again. The market picked LTE. Look how many carriers worldwide are moving towards it. Look how many are moving to WIMAX... being first isnt always the best move. Sprint jumped in the wrong direction IMHO.

    Look I personally think Sprint should have gone with LTE so I'm not trying to argue on that point but it's hard to call anyone a "winner" when the network isn't even deployed. I'm just stating the facts and the fact is Sprint is first and already running a 4G network.

    Oh they will. If they want to have any roaming ability at all past the 2015 timeframe they will. VZW will keep CDMA around as long as they are contractually obligated by their roaming agreements and that is all. After that Sprint will need to follow the markets choice of network technology or face a serious drop in the area their customers can use their phones due to loss of roaming ability.

    One thing to keep in mind is WiMAX was built from the ground up to be a full broadband internet access service. WiMAX targets everything from cameras to anything that today has WiFi embedded in it, not just mobile phones. WiMAX is a more open standard then LTE.

    Yeah. And it might survive in that capacity. Though I am a bit doubtful. Clear spent most of their money (A few $B from Intel, google, and big cable) getting 5 cities up over what? 2 years? They cant even begin to make a profit until they have a network and installed base of WIMAX devices significantly larger then that and I question that they have the finances for such an undertaking. Sprint and the rest of their investors have their own cash flow and credit availability issues to deal with at the moment so I dont think they will be able to keep shoveling money into Clear at the rate they were. Look into their financials some time, it doesnt give you much confidence in their ability to roll out a real nationwide network.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by bryanharig
    Looking at the spectrum can give you valuable clues as to the role of the technology using them.
    I don't think the average consumer cares about what frequency or what technology the carrier is using. I think we're getting off point. All that matters is that it works. Yes your right lower frequencies travel better in metropolitan areas but all that means is you have a few more base stations for higher frequencies.

    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar
    I don't think that is correct. LTE just like WiMAX is an all IP mobile network, if they are using voice over LTE then they have to be using a VoIP solution which I believe is the same goal for WiMAX.
    Quote Originally Posted by bryanharig
    It is correct. I dont know any other way to put it more plainly.
    Bryan, I admire your passion to feel you're right but the facts don't support you.

    "LTE is built entirely around IP (Internet Protocol) and transports all traffic, including voice calls, as packets."

    -Alcatel Shows off IP Core for LTE Networks - Business Center - PC World

    It only makes sense to move to an all IP network and use VoIP. It's lower cost, enhanced services and it's universal seamless access make it a no brainer.

    You keep talking like LTE and WiMAX are very different systems but WiMAX and LTE are both OFDM systems. Both are all IP networks and for all intensive purposes will work similarly. There is no circuit-switched voice as you've been claiming on LTE as it is an all IP based system just like WiMAX. You might be confusing the fact that LTE can fall back on the old cellular systems as long as the phone has the radio chips in it for that system (WiMAX could too). There is a great article on the differences between these systems and might give you a better idea how they work here:

    WiMAX vs. LTE
    Last edited by deesugar; 04/16/2009 at 11:56 AM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by beanis View Post
    i think some gsm networks do, but they are overall slower.


    Yes i believe this is a feature of the technology sprint is utilizing for 4g.
    hsdpa
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