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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnH59 View Post
    I don't recall those products having the publicity the Foleo had. I was for the Foleo. I wanted one. I tested one for about a month.
    Wouldn't the amount of publicity only matter in that it would make the company MORE likely to release it (in order to avoid embarrassment, stock devaluation, and insolvency) rather than LESS likely?

    Apple could afford to not release those products in that article. Palm has no choice but to release the Pre.
  2. dave75's Avatar
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    #22  
    Didn't Palm kill the Foleo because they were waiting for WebOS. I have no doubt the Pre will be released. I also believe we'll see a WebOS Foleo at some point.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    As has Apple. As have many different companies across various industries. The vast majority of products they announce do make it to market, and for that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
    The Apple article is a red herring. There's this (apparently) subtle difference between something never coming out of R&D and a product with a full public announcement with planned release timeline, full production starting, and shipments beginning that distinguish the Foleo from your Apple examples. It's rare that a product gets as far as the Foleo in its life cycle, only to be suddenly dropped. So rare that when a company does it, they are scrutinized for years afterward until their performance eventually proves the product gaff to be a fluke.

    Oh, and you may want to look up "countless," Capt Hyperbole.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The article explicitly mentions one device announced at MacWorld, and another where units can be found on EBay. Hardly "never coming out of R&D", not that that was a criterion that either myself or the other gent ever suggested be met.
    So in the manufacturing R&D business, it's appropriate to never let one or two people outside the lab touch the device (HINT: it's dozens to hundreds - like with the Foleo)? Got it. Is eBay is your measure of beyond R&D now? Do you have any idea how much stuff on eBay never saw the light of day as an announced product (like pre-production versions of the iPhone, Test models of the Foleo)? Some might say there are "countless" examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    And I am dandy on the definitions. Can you or I count these individuals or know their number? Can anyone other than a VERY FEW select individuals at Palm? No. So for the purposes of this discussion, it is correct to say "countless" individuals have physically interacted with the Pre.
    Ah got it - so countless refers to literacy more than math. If I am intellectually unable to count something it must be countless (one ... two ... some ... many ... countless!). But if a number is known, finite, measurable, tracked, recorded, maintained, but YOU'RE not personally allowed to see that number, it's countless? Wouldn't the "VERY FEW select individuals" at Palm be a countless number of individuals since neither you nor I know how many that is?

    I'm holding some money behind my back - so to you it's a countless sum of money - I'll buy your Pre from you with it. Deal? Yeah - I didn't think so. You clearly haven't researched hyperbole yet.

    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. "
    - Inigo Montoya
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    So in the manufacturing R&D business, it's appropriate to never let one or two people outside the lab touch the device (HINT: it's dozens to hundreds - like with the Foleo)? Got it. Is eBay is your measure of beyond R&D now? Do you have any idea how much stuff on eBay never saw the light of day as an announced product (like pre-production versions of the iPhone, Test models of the Foleo)? Some might say there are "countless" examples.
    Some might say you are still failing at reading comprehension. I'll try this again, and I will keep it simple for your benefit and comprehension:

    This was an exchange between myself and JohnH59. This rather malleable metric of "making it beyond R&D" or making it to a release schedule or whatever was NEVER part of the conversation. Much like your presence.

    Just like this tangent over "countless" and "finite", it is an irrelevant distraction that I won't bother engaging in beyond this post. You get the last word on it.

    Ah got it - so countless refers to literacy more than math. If I am intellectually unable to count something it must be countless (one ... two ... some ... many ... countless!). But if a number is known, finite, measurable, tracked, recorded, maintained, but YOU'RE not personally allowed to see that number, it's countless? Wouldn't the "VERY FEW select individuals" at Palm be a countless number of individuals since neither you nor I know how many that is?

    I'm holding some money behind my back - so to you it's a countless sum of money - I'll buy your Pre from you with it. Deal? Yeah - I didn't think so. You clearly haven't researched hyperbole yet.

    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. "
    - Inigo Montoya
    I had to re-read this a couple of times to make sure I was seeing what I saw.

    Any tangible object or concept is capable of being counted, even if we (the personal we) lack the knowledge or technology at a given time. In that sense, virtually nothing is "too numerous to be counted" as the dictionary definition of countless states. However, it is widely understood that the usage of this word is contextual, so when someone states that there are "countless" stars or riches or hours or whatever...it is within the context of that discussion and perspective, not an objective absolute.

    So for the purposes of this discussion (hey, there's that fancy context), we cannot know the number of people who have physically interacted with the Pre. Hence, that number being countless.

    Feel free to respond with whatever minutiae you want to further derail the thread with. I won't respond to any of it, and we can then move on.

    Cool?
  6. #26  
    Well what gets me thinking is will these bugs be solved by the release date? Some of the issues mentioned seemed to be somewhat serious and does the announced release date give them enough time to iron these things out as well as anything else that might come up.
  7. #27  
    If you mean 3.0, firmware updates=Apple's fixes much of the time. To their credit however, they DO release them timely. But hopefully they pay attention to beta feedback NOW instead of later.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    They WILL release it but it's likely to be buggy IMO. Apple has had quite a few buggy releases lately, but they do release firmware updates.


    Thanks Phone Diva,

    I guess I install beta's because I enjoy "Chest Pain". Yes Windows 7 is still a "Beta"
  9. #29  
    Ridiculous...
    In what Bizarro World is it sensible to compare Apple's pre-release software to Palm's pre-release software when we barely have any information on either? The demos we have seen on the Pre have been super scripted and many things have been off limits. Whose to say the rest wasn't super buggy?

    If I go write a blog saying I touched a Pre and it crashed every 4 minutes, I'm sure I would be out and out attacked on multiple fronts. 1) The phone isn't even done. 2) I'm full of crap. etc, etc.

    I think it's quite strange that anyone would want to cheerlead a report of someone else's software being buggy anyways. I have a Centro, but I don't go around hoping that others Blackberries perform terribly.
  10. #30  
    I'm telling you, 8gb is not enough memory. The Pre is going to fail because it doesn't have a card slot.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  11. #31  
    Though the device was made for viewing media, palm just isn't going there. No sync, no easy means to acquire video. They're just not targeting the ipod wanting crowd and apparently felt 8gb was starter enough for who their aiming the device at.

    I don't like storage determining units (8gb vs a 16gb device). It's silly. But its what apple did and now palm seems to be following suit. In the PC market, its processor that usually dictates a jump in price, with storage being an afterthought.

    It's what it is and i don't think our cries are going to bring a card slot which would destroy the game apple established and palm is attempting to play.

    Apple has itunes. Palm has..well..nothing but an OTA sync with whatever. 16gb, 32gb, etc will happen soon enough in devices, but palm needs to worry more about how people (the usual tech ignorant buyers) are going to manage or get media on the device. In the absence of any desktop app/sync that has an online store, they are ignoring any opportunities for revenue as well. I'm hoping they still have some surprises up their sleeve.
    Last edited by cardfan; 03/30/2009 at 07:45 AM.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Apple has itunes. Palm has..well..nothing but an OTA sync with whatever. 16gb, 32gb, etc will happen soon enough in devices, but palm needs to worry more about how people (the usual tech ignorant buyers) are going to manage or get media on the device. In the absence of any desktop app/sync that has an online store, they are ignoring any opportunities for revenue as well. I'm hoping they still have some surprises up their sleeve.
    Wow, I agree with you. But, having a desktop elegant sync process is not just for the "tech ignorant buyers". I love that I can just plug my iPhone in via usb and the sync is automatic.
  13. #33  
    Starting tomorrow, Skype will be available for iPhone, allowing VoIP via WiFi only. Is this something else that the Palm isn't targeting either?
  14. #34  
    I was just kidding with my statement. All the arguing and name calling, I felt like I was back in the card slot/8gb thread and felt left out.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Captweez View Post
    Ridiculous...
    In what Bizarro World is it sensible to compare Apple's pre-release software to Palm's pre-release software when we barely have any information on either? The demos we have seen on the Pre have been super scripted and many things have been off limits. Whose to say the rest wasn't super buggy?

    If I go write a blog saying I touched a Pre and it crashed every 4 minutes, I'm sure I would be out and out attacked on multiple fronts. 1) The phone isn't even done. 2) I'm full of crap. etc, etc.

    I think it's quite strange that anyone would want to cheerlead a report of someone else's software being buggy anyways. I have a Centro, but I don't go around hoping that others Blackberries perform terribly.
    I absolutely agree with the Capt. The Pre isn't even in the wild yet, and we are comparing feature sets to Apple pre-releases?

    When Apple releases their software, and the Pre exists beyond youtube videos, we can start to compare apples to apples (pun intended?).
  16. dave75's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Apple has itunes. Palm has..well..nothing but an OTA sync with whatever. 16gb, 32gb, etc will happen soon enough in devices, but palm needs to worry more about how people (the usual tech ignorant buyers) are going to manage or get media on the device. In the absence of any desktop app/sync that has an online store, they are ignoring any opportunities for revenue as well. I'm hoping they still have some surprises up their sleeve.
    There is the Amazon store for music, not sure about videos. We have also heard about the option to use either USB mass storage or media sync when connecting the microUSB cable, although I haven't seen this in any demos yet.
  17. #37  
    Bad news for those hoping Apple 3.0 will fail. Engadget testers are reporting a more stable version this time.

    iPhone 3.0 beta 2 released, push notifications are a go

    BTW, where's the Pre SDK? They really need to get moving!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    So in the manufacturing R&D business, it's appropriate to never let one or two people outside the lab touch the device (HINT: it's dozens to hundreds - like with the Foleo)? Got it. Is eBay is your measure of beyond R&D now? Do you have any idea how much stuff on eBay never saw the light of day as an announced product (like pre-production versions of the iPhone, Test models of the Foleo)? Some might say there are "countless" examples.

    Ah got it - so countless refers to literacy more than math. If I am intellectually unable to count something it must be countless (one ... two ... some ... many ... countless!). But if a number is known, finite, measurable, tracked, recorded, maintained, but YOU'RE not personally allowed to see that number, it's countless? Wouldn't the "VERY FEW select individuals" at Palm be a countless number of individuals since neither you nor I know how many that is?

    I'm holding some money behind my back - so to you it's a countless sum of money - I'll buy your Pre from you with it. Deal? Yeah - I didn't think so. You clearly haven't researched hyperbole yet.

    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. "
    - Inigo Montoya
    lol smackdown!
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