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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    do we know the gesture area can't be used to move cards around?
    Considering how they point out the card is still active in card view, it's possible the gesture actions will still be active in card view, meaning in the current active card going back will do a back action in the main card.
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    With regard to the cards, although I doubt you can rearrange the cards from the gesture area, I bet you can scroll through them, which allows you to switch between open applications, from the gesture area.

    I also find myself using the d-pad a lot for choosing links on a web page in Blazer (or Opera mini). But that is mostly because it's more precise than actually touching the link with my finger. On a touchscreen designed for fingers rather than a stylus, I would expect touching the links to work just fine.
    I'd HOPE for that, but who knows if they'll live up to our expectations.

    A recent Pre video raised my hopes, though, because the zoom was sooo deep that it looked like ones fingers might easily select the important text. However, if one zooms in too much (and if the text doesn't rearrange itself when you do) then part of the desired text could end up off-screen. Hopefully, Palm will make it easy enough to find the right balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Also, I have seen videos where the swipes in the gesture area had to go from one side to the other, but I think I have also seen swipes where they were contained on one side only. Does anyone know whether left-right swipes have to be from one side to the other or not?
    I'm not sure I know what you're asking (I can see a few ways to interpret it) but I remember Palm saying, explicitly, that those back-swipes can be from right-to-left or from left-to-right because they wanted the device to be good for righties AND lefties.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Finally, I must say that Palm's track record in thinking through one-handedness is pretty good. And they have said that they are thinking through operating the Pre with one hand. So I am hopeful that the final product will be great with one hand. I bet there will be gestures for some things that we haven't seen yet. A good one for them to implement would be something to select the menu (remember the old Graffiti lower left to upper right gesture to get the menu?). These would be the kinds of refinements I would expect them to make in the course of extensive testing with users. I think it's going to be great.
    Palm also, explicitly stated that we won't see any menus in this operating system.

    I don't see how the heck that's even possible, but it's what they said.
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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    Palm also, explicitly stated that we won't see any menus in this operating system.

    I don't see how the heck that's even possible, but it's what they said.
    I don't remember ever hearing that - just that there's no menu KEY. There's a button in the upper left labeled with the name of the app that currently has focus, with a little downward pointing triangle on it if there's a menu available.

    Here's a shot of the email application. Notice the button at the upper left has a little down triangle.

    Pre Email App

    Here's a picture of the menu that pulls down in the email inbox if you hit that button:

    Email App Menu

    Everything's nice and big, easy to hit with a finger.
  4.    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by dwhitman View Post
    I don't remember ever hearing that - just that there's no menu KEY. There's a button in the upper left labeled with the name of the app that currently has focus, with a little downward pointing triangle on it if there's a menu available.

    Here's a shot of the email application. Notice the button at the upper left has a little down triangle.

    Pre Email App

    Here's a picture of the menu that pulls down in the email inbox if you hit that button:

    Email App Menu

    Everything's nice and big, easy to hit with a finger.
    No menu button, but there's a button for the menu? Oh well. Maybe they meant no dedicated, physical menu button... but we knew that when we saw there was one button on the device.

    In any case, I'm glad to be wrong on this one. Thanks for the correction!
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  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by dwhitman View Post
    I don't remember ever hearing that - just that there's no menu KEY. There's a button in the upper left labeled with the name of the app that currently has focus, with a little downward pointing triangle on it if there's a menu available.

    Here's a shot of the email application. Notice the button at the upper left has a little down triangle.

    Pre Email App

    Here's a picture of the menu that pulls down in the email inbox if you hit that button:

    Email App Menu

    Everything's nice and big, easy to hit with a finger.
    Of course, the worry in this thread is that the location of this menu button is the top left of the screen--so it's a candidate for thumb stretch fatigue syndrome.

    So come on, Palm, bring back the old Graffiti menu gesture! I half-way expect it.
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Of course, the worry in this thread is that the location of this menu button is the top left of the screen--so it's a candidate for thumb stretch fatigue syndrome.

    So come on, Palm, bring back the old Graffiti menu gesture! I half-way expect it.
    Way to bring us back on-topic. I guess I'll miss the menu (hard) button even more until and unless a suitable gesture is made available.

    I was typing a somewhat lengthy post, earlier, on my 755p and I realized that my thumb muscles were getting really tight. If I had to perform a bunch of gestures, type a meaty paragraph I might be too thumbly (new word!) worn-out to perform more gestures to complete the task.
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  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    Way to bring us back on-topic. I guess I'll miss the menu (hard) button even more until and unless a suitable gesture is made available.

    I was typing a somewhat lengthy post, earlier, on my 755p and I realized that my thumb muscles were getting really tight. If I had to perform a bunch of gestures, type a meaty paragraph I might be too thumbly (new word!) worn-out to perform more gestures to complete the task.
    Here's a new business venture for you:

    West3man's patented Pre Thumb Exercises! That's right, for the low, low price of just $19.95, you too can exercise your thumbs and operate the Pre like a Pro!

    Double entendre intended.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    I guess I'll miss the menu (hard) button even more until and unless a suitable gesture is made available.
    I was just looking closer at the picture of the menu, and noticed that each menu item has a keyboard shortcut listed. For example, cut is alt-X, copy is alt-C and paste is alt-V. So this should go a long way to avoiding that long reach up to the menu when working one-handed.

    I'm presuming that "alt" is the orange button, which raises the question of how to interpret the keystroke (for example) orange button-C. Is that Copy, or 8? Maybe you get 8 by hitting orange, then C whereas copy is the chord orange-C?
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by dwhitman View Post
    I was just looking closer at the picture of the menu, and noticed that each menu item has a keyboard shortcut listed. For example, cut is alt-X, copy is alt-C and paste is alt-V. So this should go a long way to avoiding that long reach up to the menu when working one-handed.

    I'm presuming that "alt" is the orange button, which raises the question of how to interpret the keystroke (for example) orange button-C. Is that Copy, or 8? Maybe you get 8 by hitting orange, then C whereas copy is the chord orange-C?
    I am so lost. I just typed a bunch of crap, then decided to double-check the picture of the Pre's keyboard. After which, I deleted everything I typed.

    I have no clue what they're talking about. If you're right about the alt key now BEING the "orange key" (as opposed to being an actual key with "alt" on it, like my 755p has)* then I don't see how alt-C would result in anything other than an "8."

    Maybe the Pre is smart enough to know that, when you've got stuff highlighted, you want a menu command instead of a new key. That probably won't always be true, so I'm a bit concerned by that. What if I've ALREADY got something copied (to the Pre clipboard or whatever they'd call it) that I plan to paste after I finish typing a paragraph?

    I hope there's an easy explanation for this.

    I certainly wouldn't expect Palm to drop the "copy/paste" ball like THIS.




    * - Yes, I see that the Pre keyboard has no such key
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  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    If you're right about the alt key now BEING the "orange key" (as opposed to being an actual key with "alt" on it, like my 755p has)* then I don't see how alt-C would result in anything other than an "8."

    Maybe the Pre is smart enough to know that, when you've got stuff highlighted, you want a menu command instead of a new key. That probably won't always be true, so I'm a bit concerned by that. What if I've ALREADY got something copied (to the Pre clipboard or whatever they'd call it) that I plan to paste after I finish typing a paragraph?

    I hope there's an easy explanation for this.

    I certainly wouldn't expect Palm to drop the "copy/paste" ball like THIS.
    Maybe you have to open the menu first to be able to use the shortcuts. So copy would be: Secret menu-swipe, Orange-C.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by dwhitman View Post
    I was just looking closer at the picture of the menu, and noticed that each menu item has a keyboard shortcut listed. For example, cut is alt-X, copy is alt-C and paste is alt-V. So this should go a long way to avoiding that long reach up to the menu when working one-handed.

    I'm presuming that "alt" is the orange button, which raises the question of how to interpret the keystroke (for example) orange button-C. Is that Copy, or 8? Maybe you get 8 by hitting orange, then C whereas copy is the chord orange-C?
    "ALT" is probably the SYM key. The Orange/Red key is a shift key. On most Treos the "Alt" key is located where the Pre's "SYM" key is.
  12. StefanP's Avatar
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    #32  
    on the left of the @ key, there's an arrow up key. That's probably the shift/alt key.

    they would print "sym" on the alt key, that's just confusing.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by frause View Post
    Maybe you have to open the menu first to be able to use the shortcuts. So copy would be: Secret menu-swipe, Orange-C.
    Let's hope not. That would be more complicated than it is now.


    I'm thinking that the SYM key IS the key they meant instead of "ALT" which is nowhere on the keyboard (maybe that menu was developed before they changed the name of the key). I say this because the key that used to be used for numbers and symbols, the "orange key" as someone put it, now appears to be specifically for choosing numbers.

    So, maybe the symbol key only chooses symbols, except when one hits one of the number keys, at which time it functions as a menu button?
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  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by StefanP View Post
    on the left of the @ key, there's an arrow up key. That's probably the shift/alt key.

    they would print "sym" on the alt key, that's just confusing.
    On Palm devices the up arrow key is the caps key. The color is like a shift key on Palm devices to input the numbers and symbols printed on the keyboard above the letters like a shift key on a keyboard. In my experience with Treo devices the "Alt" key, or probably what they're calling the "SYM" key, opens a list of symbols not available on the keyboard. You can actually use some input programs to also give the Alt key a secondary function of making shortcuts.

    Have you guys owned a Palm device before?

    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    I'm thinking that the SYM key IS the key they meant instead of "ALT" which is nowhere on the keyboard (maybe that menu was developed before they changed the name of the key). I say this because the key that used to be used for numbers and symbols, the "orange key" as someone put it, now appears to be specifically for choosing numbers.
    Who says it's specifically for the numbers only? The color? Look at other Treo devices, they all have a similar coloring scheme, they just made the numbers that color to stand out like they always do on their keyboards. Look at any Treo, where the number quadrant is different color than the rest.
    Last edited by Kyusaku; 03/22/2009 at 01:27 PM.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyusaku View Post
    On Palm devices the up arrow key is the caps key. The color is like a shift key on Palm devices to input the numbers and symbols printed on the keyboard above the letters like a shift key on a keyboard. In my experience with Treo devices the "Alt" key, or probably what they're calling the "SYM" key, opens a list of symbols not available on the keyboard. You can actually use some input programs to also give the Alt key a secondary function of making shortcuts.

    Have you guys owned a Palm device before?
    Some of us, yes. Obviously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyusaku View Post
    Who says it's specifically for the numbers only? The color? Look at other Treo devices, they all have a similar coloring scheme, they just made the numbers that color to stand out like they always do on their keyboards. Look at any Treo, where the number quadrant is different color than the rest.
    I am looking at other Treo devices. They don't have one color that's shared ONLY between that special key and the numbers. There are other reasons for my opinion, which ought to be as obvious as the other elements you've asked about, dismissed, and ignored so far in this thread.
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  16. #36  
    how did this become a conversation about where the "Alt" key is?
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Equals hXc View Post
    how did this become a conversation about where the "Alt" key is?
    Ease of keyboard usage + shortcuts may help determine how much thumb-fatigue one might expect.
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