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  1. #421  
    Yup yup, kinda feels like the heated debate from yesterday..and we got warned about that. Trying to help avoid that
  2.    #422  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Really? Seems like a spirited but civil debate to me. Much better than some of the other megalength threads I've participated in in the past.
    I agree and just think I asked Dieter to move this back to the Pre forum.

    Also its not as bad as the ones I seen on PIC. There are alot of bitter Palm OS folks over there that all were PREdicting the end of Palm by now.
  3. #423  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    As I have repeatedly said, I have only ever owned a Centro, and what was done is the past under a different business model on different devices is a moot point anyway. There's no way to make a fair or even comparison. Did anybody have faith that Nintendo would rise again to rule the world of consumer videogames after being on top of the world and then failing miserably with the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube? No. Their most recent (at the time) business practices and success rate would indicate that they would fail again, but they did the exact opposite. Palm is capable of doing the same.

    And your anecdotal "I use my apps on a daily basis" bit is just that. Anecdotal. The stats for ALL users clearly show that the vast majority of iPhone apps are curiosities that people care nothing about after downloading them.
    Not sure about those app stats. That story didn't mention how these determined these facts. I use most of my apps on a daily basis, some more than others.

    I don't know how you claim Palm past upgrade support "moot". Palm is very lucky to have such a forgiving customer in you.
  4. #424  
    Quote Originally Posted by dd4618 View Post
    because... palmOS is not own by palm anymore... it's own by access...
    What was their excuse when they still owned the OS?
  5. #425  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Apple never fixed Bluetooth or MMS for original iPhone buyers either. You keep avoiding this.
    I don't understand why iPhone 1.0 users aren't getting these but they are getting lots of other fixes. More than treo owners have ever gotten.
  6. #426  
    You mean standard features? Treos already had em
  7. #427  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Man, that must be true because there are NO jailbreak MMS apps that work on the original iPhone.

    Right, Apple? None whatsoever.
    CNET claims it doesn't have the radio. I don't know, I never opened the phone and don't know enough about how MMS works, LOL! I thought MMS used data connection.

    "Multimedia messaging
    Also, it's very disappointing that iPhone Classic owners will not get MMS, even if they upgrade. Apparently, the original iPhone lacks the necessary radio to make MMS work. That, of course, leads me to the very pertinent question: why? "
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. #428  
    Quote Originally Posted by haydur View Post
    I can't think of *any* reason why hardware on the old iPhone can't support MMS. Dumbphones have had MMS for years, and I don't think their hardware was a quarter as advance as the iPhone's.

    So why did Apple remove MMS from 1st gen. iPhones? To force their ownners to buy new devices.
    You may be right if jailbreak apps work. I'm tempted to get the next one anyway, sick of EDGE, LOL! Plus I can renew at the lower price.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #429  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    You mean standard features? Treos already had em
    Ok how bout all the features the iPhone shipped standard that the treo doesn't have? Like working bluetooth.
  10. #430  
    This thread has become repetitive and boring.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  11. #431  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    This thread has become repetitive and boring.
    Two dyslectic guys walk into a bra...
  12. #432  
    Nobody seems to factor in that the Palm OS has been around since 1996 and has been the same core OS ever since. It has seen amazing progression from the Pilot 1000/5000 days. A lot of it due to the progress of technology. Bad 160x160 monochrome screens, no media capability, no IR, no flash memory and no backlight. 2.0 brought about the Personal and Professional. The OS was tweaked and the screen had a backlight. Palm III showed real evolution. IR, flash memory and a backlight. People were beaming info to one another all the time. No one feared their battery dying as you had a 10-15 minute window to change your batteries. When's the last time you saw a PDA run on AAA's. Cool thing with the Palm III series is that Palm offered an upgrade module to allow the Pilot series to become Palm III's. So how about a little FU to the upgrade winers out there? Can I mention they also had a whopping 2mb of memory.

    With the 3com purchase the Palm originals broke off and created Handspring which gave us the Visor. The Visor had a hardware expansion slot for upgrading.

    OS3.1 brought about 4mb IIIx and a svelte 2mb V and 8mb Vx. The V series kicking off the internal rechargeable battery.
    OS3.2 brought about the VII, their first foray into wireless connectivity.
    OS3.5 brought about the IIIc, the first color screen for Palm.

    The progression continued. Sony was on board with the Clie. Down the road Tapwave came out with a really cool gaming handheld with the Palm OS. The OS and devices continued to evolve. Memory slots, hard drives, MSC support, media capability, wireless connectivity, improved resolution, larger screens, thumboards and so on. Palm was bought, sold, spunoff, reacquired
    and so on. All this happened in six plus years. Not a bad evolution from the Pilot 1000/5000 and that same base OS.

    It wasn't until 02' (6yrs later mind you) that convergence arrived and Palm became a phone in the Treo 180. Now we're taking that same core OS and adapting it to a cell phone. Oh yeah, so easy to do. We're talking about an OS that was originally designed around a simple dragonball processor, monochrome screen, 128kb of memory and a serial port. Now we're putting it into a modern cell phone that is light years ahead of the original pilot with the same OS. Seems a bit similar to RIM taking their non touchscreen based OS and trying to put it into the Storm.

    Now we have people whining about Palm's BT issues, no push mail and why can't they do x, y or z. Because it's too damn hard to tweak and update the OS to do it all well. It ran its course and evolved greatly during that run and also considering what it started as. I'm sure you have quite a few Palm newbs that couldn't begin to tell you about the Newton. How well did Apple do with that? They didn't. It was a failure that was dragged out way too long. They didn't even develop their ipod interface. They bought it. USR was trying to develop a handwriting interface and just put 2 & 2 together about turning it into hardware. Apple did zilch to support their ipod issues. Planned obsolescence. Why fix current models when we get create new models that solve some of the problems and force people to upgrade. The only time Palm left current users hanging was when the hardware couldn't support the new OS version. To make that Palm OS more robust it needed newer guts and the OS just wouldn't be compatible with the old guts. Since the advent of the Treo nobody seems to remember all the old palm evolution. Just like apple people fail to see how Apple almost completely failed and never considered all these tweaks and fixes until the iphone came out.

    Why is the iphone great? Because it was a brand new OS made for today's modern phone developed around today's tech which is leaps and bounds better than what was around 13yrs ago. Much easier to make an evolutionary device from the ground up compared to just tweaking something old. Palm realizing hardware upgrades and OS tweaks just won't take them any further needed to start from scratch in order to survive. They also needed a lot of cash. So that's what they did. They're looking to get reborn with a new infrastructure, a new OS and a sleek new device. So before you start judging based on the extremely limited time frame most are going off of, why don't we sit back, STFU, and see what happens. Then after the dust settles a bit can we begin to make the comparisons people are throwing around with a little more accuracy.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  13. #433  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    This thread has become repetitive and boring.
    Can we just agree to disagree?
    Apple will always be Apple and Palm is always Palm. Unfortunately for now, Palm has a question mark. If everything goes fine with the Pre, well and good.
  14. #434  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    Now we have people whining about Palm's BT issues, no push mail and why can't they do x, y or z. Because it's too damn hard to tweak and update the OS to do it all well.
    Let me see if I get this straight, Palms excuse for releasing a buggy phone that was advertised with bluetooth (but didn't really work) is that "it's too damn hard to tweak and update the OS"?

    Just amazing!!!!!!! You guys must really love your Palm devices.
  15. #435  
    ....and this thread is done.
  16. #436  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Ironically Palm, in it most recent Palm designed device, the 800w, never released a fix for its GPS problem, while HTC fixed its GPS issue in a a few weeks.

    So you are saying HTC does updates and fixes in a timely way, but the "new Palm" doesn't.

    I guess the thinking around here is that its to hard to fix and we should just move on. Palm will be a lot better this time around with support. They promise.
  17. #437  
    It remains to be seen if their support will improve. But it would be better to release an almost bug free device to begin with. Anyone know anything about that manufacturing company in the other thread and on Engadget?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18. #438  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    Nobody seems to factor in that the Palm OS has been around since 1996 and has been the same core OS ever since.
    Bravo. Great post. I just left the first sentence due to the length. I'm guessing people complain about Palm because they like it so much and want to see it get better when in reality, Palm saw the problems with Palm OS and were devoting all their resources into Web OS. Hence no updates, which is why people are pissed off.
  19. #439  
    crogs571, nice post. As an old-timer (I think I may still have my Palm 5000 in a box somewhere), I can certainly appreciate the fact that the Palm OS is very long in the tooth and yet was very successfully transformed into a highly efficient phone OS (thanks largely to Hawkins & Co at Handspring). One that still rivaled the latest and greatest WM OS in many respects, IMHO.

    I'm not exactly sure what's been going on behind the scenes with webOS, though. As an old-timer, you might think that I should feel some nostalgia for Palm and want them to succeed as the underdog, but there's a lot of new faces there. Hawkins, Ben Combee, and I'm sure many other old-timers and original thinkers in the original Palm OS team are gone. Palm had some false starts with OS6 and the Foleo. And the Pre leaves any legacy compatibility behind (which I personally think is the right decision). And while they've kept the keyboard around, it's not "always there" anymore and the D-Pad is gone, resulting in a device that's no longer a "one-hand efficiency master." In other words, it lacks the soul of the old Palm OS / Treo and is more like an all-new device (and, in many ways, also feels like something designed to one-up the iPhone). While I had lots to complain about with Hawkins, I also had a great deal of respect for his accomplishments with the original Palm Pilot and the Treo line. Colligan is still around (right?) but I see him as just a suit (rightly or wrongly), and not someone I see as having any special creative impact on the Palm of today.

    So while I wish Palm luck with the Pre for several reasons, the fact that I'm a Palm OS old-timer isn't really one of them. I sort of see the Palm OS that I had any emotional attachment to as finally now dying with the last of the Palm OS Garnet Treo line.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  20. #440  
    Apple may have just announced Copy/Paste, but it blows the Pre implementation out.

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