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  1. #361  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Um, I think the latest Garnet release was six or seven years ago, not ten, but point taken.

    Seriously, tho...you would complain if Palm just kept jury-rigging Garnet and stayed rooted in the past, and you are complaining now that they are doing a clean break and making a thoroughly modern OS their platform going forward. In essence, they can't do anything right by you.
    My point is over those 7 years (it felt longer), how many updates, bugfixes, added features did Palm release? Would you be happy with the same level of support for your eventual Pre purchase? I would hope for far better.
  2. jagowar's Avatar
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    #362  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    My point is over those 7 years (it felt longer), how many updates, bugfixes, added features did Palm release? Would you be happy with the same level of support for your eventual Pre purchase? I would hope for far better.
    Who cares what they did in the past? WebOS is not in the past. It was designed for the future (just like the iphone os). apple did the exact same thing with their ipod line (in not giving updates) yet they are doing it now because they have a more powerful os (new) on their devices. Its the EXACT same position as palm now with webos.
  3. #363  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    My point is over those 7 years (it felt longer), how many updates, bugfixes, added features did Palm release? Would you be happy with the same level of support for your eventual Pre purchase? I would hope for far better.
    I can't speak definitively, as I only became a Palm user in 2007, but I know that they have made some revisions in that time, and the latter two of those seven years were all about the company switching to WebOS, which was a basic requisite for survival.

    It's a moot point anyway, as updates to Garnet were dependent on carrier and had a much less efficient delivery method than Apple and their "single model, single carrier, you are required to sync with iTunes" scenario.
  4. #364  
    I'm an iPhone and Palm OS developer and installed iPhone OS 3.0 yesterday. There are a lot of improvements to the OS that weren't mentioned and even more significant enhancements to the SDK as announced yesterday. So, those newly functioning apps will be coming along over the next few months.

    My opinion is that it is impossible to include all the details in an intial OS release much less get them right. Thinking that Palm will somehow have all of these comparable features working like Apple has done over the past two years is just a fantasy. Especially, when Palm is going to try to go forward supporting TWO different operating systems. Or three, depending on how long they are going to support Palm OS devices.

    It's amazing how much Apple has devoted resources to developing the single iPhone OS and supporting systems like the App Store. That is, until you think of how many millions of units and millions of app sales that cost is spread over. They even had a free invitation-only road show just for developers several months ago that went to something like a couple dozen cities worldwide. I just don't think Palm has that kind of money to spend.
  5. #365  
    You're missing the point though. PalmOS had limitations plain and simple, and they took it as far as it would go. They rode the wave as long as they could, and it's over. I wish they would've updated the hardware more than the OS. Essentially three generations of the same styled phone (600, 650, 700) is just ridiculous. The 680/755 was barely even a big step forward. I think that was more of a flaw for them in the end as everyone got smaller and thinner. WebOS is a new beginning and with new people on board and hopefully a different mindset, we'll have some more positives for years to come.
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    My point is over those 7 years (it felt longer), how many updates, bugfixes, added features did Palm release? Would you be happy with the same level of support for your eventual Pre purchase? I would hope for far better.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  6. #366  
    Quote Originally Posted by jagowar View Post
    Who cares what they did in the past? WebOS is not in the past. It was designed for the future (just like the iphone os). apple did the exact same thing with their ipod line (in not giving updates) yet they are doing it now because they have a more powerful os (new) on their devices. Its the EXACT same position as palm now with webos.
    Why do you assume that Palm will be any better with support and updates for the Pre?
  7. #367  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    You're missing the point though. PalmOS had limitations plain and simple, and they took it as far as it would go. They rode the wave as long as they could, and it's over. I wish they would've updated the hardware more than the OS. Essentially three generations of the same styled phone (600, 650, 700) is just ridiculous. The 680/755 was barely even a big step forward. I think that was more of a flaw for them in the end as everyone got smaller and thinner. WebOS is a new beginning and with new people on board and hopefully a different mindset, we'll have some more positives for years to come.
    Simple bug fixes could have been addressed (I always had bluetooth issues on my treo).

    Palm could have come up with a push notification system also,
  8. bignoze's Avatar
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    #368  
    Quote Originally Posted by StatCoder View Post
    I'm an iPhone and Palm OS developer and installed iPhone OS 3.0 yesterday. There are a lot of improvements to the OS that weren't mentioned and even more significant enhancements to the SDK as announced yesterday. So, those newly functioning apps will be coming along over the next few months.

    My opinion is that it is impossible to include all the details in an intial OS release much less get them right. Thinking that Palm will somehow have all of these comparable features working like Apple has done over the past two years is just a fantasy. Especially, when Palm is going to try to go forward supporting TWO different operating systems. Or three, depending on how long they are going to support Palm OS devices.

    It's amazing how much Apple has devoted resources to developing the single iPhone OS and supporting systems like the App Store. That is, until you think of how many millions of units and millions of app sales that cost is spread over. They even had a free invitation-only road show just for developers several months ago that went to something like a couple dozen cities worldwide. I just don't think Palm has that kind of money to spend.
    this begs the question......how can the Pre compete?

    even if its a great device its going to take Palm years to catch up and why wait though that?

    These are the questions I ask myself while I wait for iphone 3.0 or Pre?
  9. #369  
    Well they've shown that they are no longer supporting PalmOS so you're down to two. WM is not their baby. They only add their own Palm oriented tweaks to it so I don't see how they would really invest that much manpower into it. WebOS is their future and trying to compare them to Apple when the iPhone has been around for 2yrs now isn't really fair. If the Pre does well from the get go with Sprint, then does well overseas with the GSM version, it won't be hard to get the ball rolling. And they don't need to have Apple money to be successful. If they can carve out a good niche early on, it will build from there. If WebOS is successful and gets licensed out to other handset manufacturers, you'd see even more success. It has to start somewhere. So I don't see the negativity when the phone hasn't even been launched yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by StatCoder View Post
    My opinion is that it is impossible to include all the details in an intial OS release much less get them right. Thinking that Palm will somehow have all of these comparable features working like Apple has done over the past two years is just a fantasy. Especially, when Palm is going to try to go forward supporting TWO different operating systems. Or three, depending on how long they are going to support Palm OS devices.

    It's amazing how much Apple has devoted resources to developing the single iPhone OS and supporting systems like the App Store. That is, until you think of how many millions of units and millions of app sales that cost is spread over. They even had a free invitation-only road show just for developers several months ago that went to something like a couple dozen cities worldwide. I just don't think Palm has that kind of money to spend.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  10. #370  
    why? to compete with RIM on an OS they knew was dying? And for some reason they could never perfect BT with the POS. The 700p showed that even after their big firmware update. It was part of their Achilles heel. Oh well. But again, that time is over. There's many new people in place, outside investors that want to see them succeed (if only for their own financial gain), and hopefully a new mindset. Just because they're not Apple people are ready to stick a fork in them before they even get off the ground. Like no other company is allowed to succeed in the handset market because of Apple. Give me a break. One reason I would never buy an iphone, well okay...two. itunes. Don't want it and will never use it. And no physical keyboard. The touchscreen being the only means of input is not the most efficient way to do things. I don't care about giant app stores and all the other blah blah blah. I don't like being locked into proprietary things (like itunes), and I want tactile feel for input. So Apple and iphone can have all the success in the world, still not for me, and I'm sure there's many others that feel the same way. Enough that will keep other companies in business. Palm does not have to be Apple to succeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Simple bug fixes could have been addressed (I always had bluetooth issues on my treo).

    Palm could have come up with a push notification system also,
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  11. jagowar's Avatar
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    #371  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Why do you assume that Palm will be any better with support and updates for the Pre?
    Why do you assume they wont? Apple was in the exact same position in not updating their ipods but now that they have an OS capable of doing it they do. I am very confident palm will too.
  12. #372  
    Quote Originally Posted by jagowar View Post
    Why do you assume they wont? Apple was in the exact same position in not updating their ipods but now that they have an OS capable of doing it they do. I am very confident palm will too.
    because they havn't in the past. Search the message boards here and you will see plenty of complaints
  13. #373  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    because they havn't in the past. Search the message boards here and you will see plenty of complaints
    Wow...a company that sells one device on one carrier and controls all of the software on the device and how it is installed can push sync updates faster than a smaller company supporting numerous devices across multiple carriers with multiple custom software configs using a much less efficient and more manual delivery system?

    What an achievement. It's like comparing apples (no pun intended) and hamburgers.
  14. jagowar's Avatar
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    #374  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    because they havn't in the past. Search the message boards here and you will see plenty of complaints
    And before the iphone and itouch the same thing was said of apple.... now not so much and i am 99% sure the same will happen with palm.
  15. #375  
    Quote Originally Posted by StatCoder View Post
    My opinion is that it is impossible to include all the details in an intial OS release much less get them right. Thinking that Palm will somehow have all of these comparable features working like Apple has done over the past two years is just a fantasy. Especially, when Palm is going to try to go forward supporting TWO different operating systems. Or three, depending on how long they are going to support Palm OS devices.
    Sorta what I was saying in my ramble, but you are more than an end user. It wasn't a good day for the Pre. There were a lot of features added to the iPhone.

    Apple has become a juggernaut in the mobile phone business. Look at their website, app store, marketing, advertising (campaigns), not to mention the product itself. Just first class IMO. It's not just the phone that syncs, everything they do syncs. Now even more functional. Nokia, Sony, Rim, are all trying, but not coming close to emulating them.

    I took the original iPhone back in two weeks, and they didn't even charge me a restocking fee. I think I want one again when 3.0 arrives.
  16. #376  
    This aint your palm treo anymore. It's a new platform with new systems in place. Palm isn't stupid..they've listened.

    iPhone OS version history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    There's the iphone OS updates. Nothing major but tweaks since the first iphone. 3.0 includes features that have been around for years.

    One could argue that its the apps that have taken over and have provided the real new features. Apple is right to embrace the apps and developers.

    That's where palm is weak. The upside is they've provided an easy way to develop apps and there's speculation that web apps in the future may rival native ones. Even so, expect palm to open it up later. Catching up in terms of having the popular apps will happen. If you worry about sheer numbers like 25k apps, then you are misguided...that's just marketing at work. (remember the saying..500 channels and nothing on? you still only use so many at a time) Just like saying 100 new features.
  17. #377  
    Quote Originally Posted by bignoze View Post
    this begs the question......how can the Pre compete?
    even if its a great device its going to take Palm years to catch up and why wait though that?
    These are the questions I ask myself while I wait for iphone 3.0 or Pre?
    Well, lets see. Hmmm. How can a niche hardware/software tech company with hardly any market share and nothing but creativity, innovation & a great device, compete with a vastly dominant market monster. Those are jobs that have never been done before.Yeah bignoze, you got a point. I mean what is palm thinking? What company in their right mind would even attempt to break through those gates ?
  18. #378  
    Quote Originally Posted by eekinsman View Post
    How can a niche hardware/software tech company with hardly any market share and nothing but creativity, innovation & a great device, compete with a vastly dominant market monster.
    Umm, yes but the company that has proven it could do that was Apple. Palm has shown only that it could go from being the vastly dominant market monster to having hardly any market share and nothing but creativity, innovation, and a great device (supposedly).
  19. #379  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    This aint your palm treo anymore. It's a new platform with new systems in place. Palm isn't stupid..they've listened.

    iPhone OS version history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    There's the iphone OS updates. Nothing major but tweaks since the first iphone. 3.0 includes features that have been around for years.

    I can think of 2 major things already added by an iPhone update............

    - 3rd party app support
    - Exchange direct push sync
  20. #380  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I can think of 2 major things already added by an iPhone update............

    - 3rd party app support
    Was already in existence with Jailbreaking. They essentially added the "right" for Apple to control what apps you can have and how you have them delivered to your device.

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