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  1. #81  
    I think the worst thing that happened to this whole release date thing was the initial rumor date of Feb 15. All of a sudden everyone expected it to come out within a few weeks. After that everyone just kept speculating and looking for any clues anywhere to see if they can come up with another date that's in the near future, and before you know it, you have people claiming the phone is "late" eventhough Sprint and Palm said first half of the year.

    Never mind what's strategically best for Sprint and Palm, fact is, they want it to be a good phone, so they won't rush it out. I'd rather have them take their time than release another Storm fiasco!
  2. #82  
    Zyphlin, I don't know how I could have ever suggested you and others were losing perspective given the calm, measured, and concise response you gave me.

    I made it about five paragraphs deep and gave up. But I got the gist. It's cool if it's not coming out quick enough for you. There's plenty of people it will work for.

    In the meantime, I am going to do you and a few others a solid and stay away from here for a bit. The incessant negativity and gloom and doom predictions just aren't even fun to poke at anymore, and until there is some concrete news, this place is almost all about that.

    It's sad. I've been on Apple forums, XDA developers, PPCGeeks, and numerous other sites, and I have never seen a group of more determined Palm complainers/haters/what have you than I have here at TREO central. It's not going to change until this thing gets close to release. That's when I might come back. Until then or whenever, you guys have fun and try not to take any of this so seriously or personally. You'll feel better.
  3. #83  
    One thing I've noticed, and maybe it's just lately, but I've seen a tendency to challenge every little personal expression. Pooh said some of this is part of silly season. But the last time this place got this excited about an upcoming release there wasn't so much tension. This is a huge change for a lot of long time loyal POS users. I really think it's ok to let someone express that without having every fragment of their post dissected and then challenged.
  4. #84  
    <<not an appropriate reply - sorry >>
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 02/28/2009 at 04:57 PM.
  5. #85  
    I've been pretty active the past few months and i can sort of identify with what Mikah is saying.

    Over the past months, this forum has been nothing but negative. PalmOS sucks this, sucks that. It's old. It's dated. Palm is gonna die. Palm is worthless. Threads are made with the countdown to palm's demise.

    The what is a now annual comparison between all the camps totally disses the Palm Centro with swiss cheese reasoning saying palmOS is irrelevant. Treocentral's chosen phone to represent it? The TreoPro carrying an OS that is more suitable for wmexperts. Pretty sad when palmOS's own fan site craps all over it.

    So Palm comes out with a new OS that creates much buzz, changes perceptions all around, and basically shocks most in these forums. After the dust settles, we get more the negativity back.

    Why can't the Pre run our old palmOS apps? (that you've slammed into the months prior..but now its a concern). Why only 8gb? Why not a card slot? What's up with this cloud crap? Why sprint? Why can't we get a solid release date? Why isn't it out yesterday? Why doesn't palm release before the iphone?

    So we discuss these issues. Some don't seem to like (or are prepared for) an honest debate though and simply prefer to whine. Posters like Mikah get slammed because quite frankly he makes too much sense and its easier to gripe about him instead.

    Where were the moderators when the palm whiners were out in full force before? I hope were not being cliquish in this regard. I enjoy posting on here, reading people's opinions, and yes, seeing Mikah's as well. Usually, but not always, his posts are right on although i see he can get frustrated as well. Framing your opinion as a matter of fact can annoy people, but lets keep it friendly.

    I'd rather see people continue to post and not take things personally. Some people are happy, some are getting impatient, some are mad at the direction they've taken and i get that. But i hate to see people lining up against someone. Mikah's style is to reply to quoted text which is not a problem for me. It makes it easier to follow. He's genuinely excited about the Pre just as i am and appears to like a good debate.

    And just want to add, this site has always been helpful when having a palm problem that needs fixed. The bloggers are great as well.
  6. #86  
    Excellent post cf. I agree. The best thing to come from all the Pre hoopla or lack, is that I went and snagged a Centro, reputed to be the last Palm OS device, since Verizon won't have the Pre until '10 it appears. And you know what? This just confirms for me what I love about Palm! Yes, the screen is tiny and so is the keyboard, but man oh man, what a machine. I freakin' love this, to the point that I now wonder what the fuss will be over the Pre. I have my Palm desktop, the Palm OS, 3G (tho' I need to find a better browser perhaps, and the Teal skin is way cool), everything works like it should. It's clean, simple, fast, efficient. This is what Palm is about. And hopefully, they'll bring that to the Pre, albeit missing the desktop app....
  7. #87  
    <<edit - Not an Appropriate Reply >>
    I publicy apologize to mikah,
    I took the TC is a bunch of whiners a little too personal. lol

    but I also would like to see a little bit more 'Discussion' rather than aggressive back and forth.
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 02/28/2009 at 05:01 PM.
  8. #88  
    When were all the whiners out in full force, and there wasn't moderation?
    How might the whiners be handled? I don't think there's much you can do about that.
    Close every whiner thread? merge every whiner thread?
    Ban every whiner?
    There isn't much a mod can do about a whiner.
    Pooh said ignore them, and they go away.
    Kinda like we would do with a troll, if we don't respond to them, their thread/posts drifts off into the sunset.
  9. #89  
    spot on Cardfan
    Switched from the iPhone to Treo Pro
  10. #90  
    What I have noticed is a tendency to debate "personal opinions" ad nauseum to establish a "winner" when there can't be one. If posters have previously expressed their opinion once, surely that's enough. We don't need to hear it again and again. It's a discussion board, not a debating society.
  11. #91  
    One big problem I have with the Pre is that, coming from owning a Palm smartphone (755p), I have a suite of applications that I depend on for daily use. While it's nice to move to the Pre from a "dumbphone" what I am supposed to do during the 6-12 months while my applications are being developed?

    While having web access on your phone is great there are just some places you won't have a cellular or wifi signal and being able to access information will require that you have it loaded on your phone.

    There are workarounds but I find them somewhat cumbersome. For example, after you board your plane you realize that you're likely not going to make your connection due to a long line to taxi. Since your phone is supposed to be off at that time you really can't access data. Once in flight you can fire up the airline's Palm/WinMo flight schedule and look for your best re-routing options. You could also download the pdf file to your Pre and assuming the Pre will have something to read pdfs you could search manually. But that's far more tedious and I don't expect the airlines to offer WebOS support for a long time.

    What about something as simple as a Slingplayer? I can watch TV on the bus right now but with the Pre I couldn't access my Slingbox.
  12. #92  
    I really would like to find a solution.
    Honestly.

    I'm sorry if I keep quoting pooh, but he made a couple points sometime back in another thread that really hit me.

    Someone expressed their concern about all these threads after threads about Pre Release Rumors. Their suggestion was to start a master rumor thread, and keep all new rumors there in that big master rumor thread.
    I came across that post. So I asked if that's what you guys wanted to do?
    Pooh spoke up and said two things that really grabbed my attention; 1) don't try to contain it. and 2) it's not Nobel.

    1)
    I think he's right, how does one contain it?
    What would be the repercussions if we tried?

    2)
    Not Nobel at all!
    A new poster comes here all excited, a BB employee just told him they have a Release date. He posts, and we rip into him.
    Welcome to TC newbie
    Or, we move his thread he is so proud of - again, not nobel.

    What about the whiners?
    What is a nobel?
    On the other hand, consider mikah's impression of all the down on Palm.
    I know he's a Senior, but consider the newbie, excited about the Pre, Welcome to all the bitterness.
    Feel free to join in on anyone one of the Palm Stinks threads.
    Just call me Berd.
  13. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    1) I think he's right, how does one contain it?
    What would be the repercussions if we tried?
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    It's a discussion board, not a debating society.
    Besides silly ideas like actually creating a debate society (Volunteers randomly assigned For or Against, two rounds of 1,000 words each, two rounds of 500 word rebuttals, then judging. =P)

    That's quite a predicament.

    How about a sticky about the various rumored release dates instead of combining them? Or a more complete FAQ, that links to SD card concerns, Palm Desktop Concerns, etc?

    Or perhaps two seperate ones. One specifically on the release date, since that one seems to come up more frequently than others, then one one the other wildly debated issues?
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    <<edit - Not an Appropriate Reply >>
    I publicy apologize to mikah,
    I took the TC is a bunch of whiners a little too personal.
    Not necessary, my friend. I read what you wrote before you deleted it. You're just sticking up for people you consider your friends here, and that's commendable.

    I'd also like to amend what I said because it was a bit too general and blanket-ish. I think TreoCentral is swell. When I first got my Centro and first taste of PalmOS, I posted seeking advice and help, and I got it in spades. It's a great place in general.

    But since the announcement of the Pre, it just seems like every day brings new round of complaints or pessimistic visions of the future for Palm. And it's not that I'm a Palm fanboy - I've owned one Palm device and never touched their stock. But being at ANY place where the people treated the subject matter (Treos/Palm/Pre) so skeptically and with so much disdain gets wearing after awhile. I'm a generally positive person. I don't want to spend the moderate bit of online time I get between raising my kid/putting him to bed/getting him ready for daycare with such negativity. And I think things around here will get better when some concrete news arises and a few sites get hands-ons. So I'm just taking a break until then. I don't think I'll be too missed anyway. I just want people here to be a bit more upbeat. Maybe my absence will help...
  15. #95  
    I already started a sticky (Faq)
    I got some stuff in there already.
    cloud and such.
    People just repeatedly go past the stickies and start posting.
    Sheesh, they don't even read the Forum guidelines at the Top of every Forum - Announcement!

    I can see maybe curbing some of the rumor threads, but that isn't really the bigger issue that mikah brings up.
    An underlying tone of bitterness.

    I don't like the round and round go nowhere but upset debates.

    Sorry pooh, gotta quote you again.
    Silly Season? Ok, maybe on the more recent debates.
    But some of this bitterness goes further back than that.

    Before becoming a mod, I spent most my time over in the Treo 750, and then the Treo Pro section. I didn't seem to see these bitter round and round debates.

    I peaked over at the 800 from time to time because it had some similar specs as the Treo Pro. I was never really involved over there though.

    Now I'm seeing a wider spectrum of TC.
    I'm not sure it's as bitter and down as some have mentioned above, but there's enough where it's become a concern as mentioned and it's mostly in the Pre section.
    Adding a little validity to the 'Silly Season' theory.
    Just call me Berd.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Not necessary, my friend. I read what you wrote before you deleted it. You're just sticking up for people you consider your friends here, and that's commendable.

    I'd also like to amend what I said because it was a bit too general and blanket-ish. I think TreoCentral is swell. When I first got my Centro and first taste of PalmOS, I posted seeking advice and help, and I got it in spades. It's a great place in general.

    But since the announcement of the Pre, it just seems like every day brings new round of complaints or pessimistic visions of the future for Palm. And it's not that I'm a Palm fanboy - I've owned one Palm device and never touched their stock. But being at ANY place where the people treated the subject matter (Treos/Palm/Pre) so skeptically and with so much disdain gets wearing after awhile. I'm a generally positive person. I don't want to spend the moderate bit of online time I get between raising my kid/putting him to bed/getting him ready for daycare with such negativity. And I think things around here will get better when some concrete news arises and a few sites get hands-ons. So I'm just taking a break until then. I don't think I'll be too missed anyway. I just want people here to be a bit more upbeat. Maybe my absence will help...
    Doode, we might not be BFF. But I don't think you should leave. Your posts are some of the best out there when you aren't trying to break down someone's opinion

    Rethink your position on leaving the forums even if it is temporary.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's sad. I've been on Apple forums, XDA developers, PPCGeeks, and numerous other sites, and I have never seen a group of more determined Palm complainers/haters/what have you than I have here at TREO central
    It is exactly the type of ad hominem attack you jsut made that causes problems. Don't you see the hypocrisy of labeling large swaths of people "complainers/hating." when n that makes your statement a whining/hating exapmle itself? Irony 101.

    Please do peruse the no SDHC card thread. You have people who are sober people on these fourms for three, four, five years saying it is soemthing that is aproblem for them, and it will affect a potential market problme for Palm (a completely legitimate discussion about the business model) . Indeed a staggering 1/3 of the respondents here said they would wait for the next device or would be a different make.

    Calling people on treo central since 2003, 2004 etc "ridiculous" and "whiners" etc for noting this serious issue (an issue serious enough that Palm had to devote PRPRPR $damage$ $control$ $on$ $facebook$ $about$ $this$ $issue$) $was$ $wrong$.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But since the announcement of the Pre, it just seems like every day brings new round of complaints or pessimistic visions of the future for Palm..
    Noting deficiencies compared to current crop of high end smartphones does not equal "complaints" or pessimistic views.

    The pre does have deficiencies, people have noted specifics, they are almost all applauding the product at the same time.
  19. #99  
    Well, so far you've avoided the poisonous air of the Crackhead forums. Really turned me off of wanting a BB.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorro1 View Post
    Well, so far you've avoided the poisonous air of the Crackhead forums. Really turned me off of wanting a BB.
    Not really, It has gotten pretty crazy around here It should calm down once it is released though...
    Palm History: Palm III>IIIc>CLIÉ NR70v>CLIÉ TG50>Tungsten C>Treo 650>Treo 700p>Centro>Pre!! 6/5/09
    Phone History: Way too long

    Sorry Timmy, SERO does not work with the Pre.
    If you have an iTouch click me.
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