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  1. reidme's Avatar
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       #1  
    WebOS is gorgeous and fresh. It has multi-touch, multitasking, Synergy, killer web browsing and great media playing functions. It is clearly superior to iPhone, Blackberry, Android, WinMobile, and Symbian. But after pouring over every description, photo, and video available of webOS and thinking about how I will use it day-to-day (and I WILL use it) I'm starting to think good old PalmOS still has it beat in a lot of ways. So without further ado, here are my top ten ways PalmOS beats webOS:

    10. "Native apps" - They use resources more efficiently than web apps.

    9. "Desktop syncing" - I don't need no stinkin' cloud (or syncin' cloud.)

    8. "Find searches all apps" - Universal Search apparently doesn't.

    7. "Stylus" - Some apps, especially drawing or games, really need one.

    6. "Choice of touch or not" - Sometimes I don't want to put my greasy fingers on the screen.

    5. "No need to close apps" - Swiping cards off the screen is cool, not having to is even cooler.

    4. "Responsiveness" - Even opening the Notes app in webOS shows some lag.

    3. "Application buttons" - Wave Launcher looks cool, but hard buttons still rule.

    2. "5-Way navigator" - Hard to beat for some functions and more accurate than gestures.

    1. "One-handed operation" - Every time I see a Palm rep demonstrate how webOS can be used one-handed they are using two hands to do it.

    Don't get me wrong. I think webOS is great and I'll be first in line to get a Pre, but I think Palm may have thrown out too much of what made PalmOS great in their rush to be sexier than iPhone. They talk about it being the best of both worlds between iPhone and Blackberry, but I think it leans a lot more to the iPhone side of things. Good old Palm OS is still the one that gives you the most choice between the Blackberry's non-touch use and the iPhone's all-touch use.

    (Disclaimer: Some of these issues may be addressed by Palm or 3rd-parties in the future, but that remains to be seen.)
  2. #2  
    And, of course, for today at least:

    People can actually purchase and use devices running POS.

  3. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #3  
    Haha... throwing out the challenge... well...

    10. You don't know what you're talking about. The aps are native. webOS is the name of the operating system, but is confusing people making them think aps are purely web aps.

    9. Not much to say. Remains to be seen if Palm made a good choice with this or not.

    8. I don't think we know that universal search is replacing find. I always assumed it was a completely seperate feature.

    7. Not much to say here. Stylus certainly has it's advantages, but it comes with the older screen technology.

    6. Pass

    5. True. But webOS wouldn't need to either, except it brings with it multi-tasking. I doubt more than a miniscule amount of people would rather not have a need to close aps in exchange for no multi-tasking.

    4. This is obviously something Palm is working on. Judging this now is premature.

    3. I like hard buttons myself. I would have to have kept the side button, but no way the hard buttons should have been kept in exchange for screen size.

    2. I think the navigator would have ruined the look of the phone, which is one of the things they're counting on to sell the thing, but I do with the center button was a trackball. There certainly are some cases where it would be more useful than touch.

    1. Haha. Kinda funny.

    Your list isn't very strong. A lot of your reasons fall under being wrong, premature, or are part of an important tradeoff and aren't features that can live in isolation.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  4. #4  
    I remember palm saying when they killed off the palmOS ..if there's a demand for palm pilots we'll certainly look into it.

    Well, there is a demand for desktop syncing. I'd be kind of surprised if they didn't come out with something...

    What i'd really like to see is Amazon and Palm teaming up on such a desktop sync program to tie it to the amazon store as well...and that's a win win for both Palm and Amazon. I still think its crucial to provide such a thing as an easy mechanism to put media on the device. Granted, if you don't need to use it, then don't (not having to be locked into using it would be nice). But i can also picture a lot of people with blank looks on their face wondering how they'll get their media on it without such a program.

    Amazon has also talked about putting Kindle ebooks on other devices which, along with its video offerings could be part of it.

    I'll say it. It'd be itunes like. Using such a method is what people are trained to do these days. Palm would be smart to accommodate how most people do things and to be honest, a lack of such a program has plagued past palm products.

    Ask someone with a Centro if he watches movies on it and he'll most likely say he didn't know you could or wouldn't know how to. Will this be the case with the Pre as well? Palm has time to make sure this isn't the case. I think its crucial for the masses..some may not.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I remember palm saying when they killed off the palmOS ..if there's a demand for palm pilots we'll certainly look into it.

    Well, there is a demand for desktop syncing. I'd be kind of surprised if they didn't come out with something...

    What i'd really like to see is Amazon and Palm teaming up on such a desktop sync program to tie it to the amazon store as well...and that's a win win for both Palm and Amazon. I still think its crucial to provide such a thing as an easy mechanism to put media on the device. Granted, if you don't need to use it, then don't (not having to be locked into using it would be nice). But i can also picture a lot of people with blank looks on their face wondering how they'll get their media on it without such a program.

    Amazon has also talked about putting Kindle ebooks on other devices which, along with its video offerings could be part of it.

    I'll say it. It'd be itunes like. Using such a method is what people are trained to do these days. Palm would be smart to accommodate how most people do things and to be honest, a lack of such a program has plagued past palm products.

    Ask someone with a Centro if he watches movies on it and he'll most likely say he didn't know you could or wouldn't know how to. Will this be the case with the Pre as well? Palm has time to make sure this isn't the case. I think its crucial for the masses..some may not.
    I watched a movie on my Centro once........o n c e.
    I'm just sayin'
  6. #6  
    LOL..i don't even watch movies on the iphone. I guess what i meant was video. But the gist of it is that he wouldn't know how to begin to get the media on the centro...
  7. reidme's Avatar
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       #7  
    @Gernorne,

    Let me say again that I think webOS is grrrrreat and I look forward to it. There are certainly more than 10 ways that webOS beats PalmOS. I need to address a few of your comments though.


    10. You don't know what you're talking about. The aps are native. webOS is the name of the operating system, but is confusing people making them think aps are purely web aps.
    Actually I do know what I'm talking about, I used to program Atari games in assembly language many a moon ago. WebOS apps may reside in device memory and use custom APIs, but they are not the same as native apps that have direct access to the Linux kernel. Thus the concerns, that Palm has acknowledged, about issues with high performance games. They may allow native apps in the future and this isn't that big a deal to me, that's why I put it 10th.

    8. I don't think we know that universal search is replacing find. I always assumed it was a completely seperate feature.
    I haven't seen any other search or find feature demonstrated.

    3. I like hard buttons myself. I would have to have kept the side button, but no way the hard buttons should have been kept in exchange for screen size.
    That big gesture area could hold lots of buttons.

    2. I think the navigator would have ruined the look of the phone, which is one of the things they're counting on to sell the thing, but I do with the center button was a trackball. There certainly are some cases where it would be more useful than touch.
    This is part of my point, they are putting form over function, sexy over practical. I guess that may be necessary to compete, but I agree with you that they could have at least made the center button a trackball and it still would look cool. That would sort of address the stylus issue too.

    Anyway, I love what I've seen of webOS and the Pre and I didn't mean to come off as dissing it, just pointing out things that I will need to adjust to and wish they could have accommodated better.
  8. #8  
    I'm sorry - but there is no base for any of this discussion. Unless you work @ palm or somehow are demoing a pre, no one posting here has ever used the Palm Web OS. THis is all based on Demo videos

    opinion are always welcome, but let's keep this in persepective
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  9. reidme's Avatar
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       #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by B-model View Post
    I'm sorry - but there is no base for any of this discussion. Unless you work @ palm or somehow are demoing a pre, no one posting here has ever used the Palm Web OS. THis is all based on Demo videos

    opinion are always welcome, but let's keep this in persepective
    With the possible exception of #8, #4, and #1 they are facts, not opinion.
  10. #10  
    Responsiveness & the lag when an app is launched is what concerns me the most. I am sure Palm is working on it, but what I see on the demos so far is discouraging. I am still buying a Pre on the 1st hour of its availability. I hope they can make it much faster. This was the biggest thing I missed when I went from palmos to winmo.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by treoKing View Post
    Responsiveness & the lag when an app is launched is what concerns me the most. I am sure Palm is working on it, but what I see on the demos so far is discouraging. I am still buying a Pre on the 1st hour of its availability. I hope they can make it much faster. This was the biggest thing I missed when I went from palmos to winmo.
    It the nature of the beast with a multi-tasking OS. Right now you're seeing it at its cleanest/fastest. It will only slow down more over time as more overhead/processes are added to the core OS.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by reidme View Post
    With the possible exception of #8, #4, and #1 they are facts, not opinion.
    Right .... examples
    #9 - "I don't need no stinkin' cloud (or syncin' cloud.)"
    Some people like the cloud idea. others don't. There are lots of threads on this. This is your Opinion.

    #5- "Swiping cards off the screen is cool, not having to is even cooler."
    If you are refering to what is 'cool' this is an opinion, not fact.

    Hey - Like i said, opinions are welcome. That's what makes this board intresting and leads to a good conversation. But let's keep it in persepctive, none of us have used Palm WebOS.
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  13. #13  
    This isn't a defense of Palm or anything... but most of those videos of the reps demo'ing the phone with two hands is probably because when you use a phone one handed, you get in the way of the screen a bit. And the Reps are trying to show off the screen as much as possible when they are doing the demo... therefore by using two hands and using fingers to poke in and out of the necessary "clicks" it becomes easier to show off the screen.

    I also think that is why sometimes the screen is unresponsive too, they are being gingerly and QUICK about their gestures to get through the demo in a sleek and sexy presentation, but that leads to issues with a capacitive touch screen. It happens when I try to go to quickly on my iPhone.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by B-model View Post
    Hey - Like i said, opinions are welcome. That's what makes this board intresting and leads to a good conversation. But let's keep it in persepctive, none of us have used Palm WebOS.

    Most posts are opinion based now since the phone isn't out... so B-model makes a great point. It's okay to post like this (because we have nothing else to really even talk about other than dribbles of info), especially during the time period we are in too (it reminds me of the Treo 600 release era).

    However, it seems a lot of people are stating opinion now like it's pure fact and it tends to make this a more hostile environment when people point out fact vs. opinion.
  15. #15  
    yes, you are sorry. there is no base for your post. this whole forum is based on opinion and speculation.

    I think the center button is useless. everyone has onr on their new touchscreen device. a d-pad in any form would be more useful and just augment gestures and further keep your fingers off the screen.

    I think webOS apps are a tradeoff. what better way to promote creation of apps then to make it quick and simple. I'm sure we'll see kernel access over time. If they really want webOS to take off, it'll be inevitible. the hardware is capable of much more than simple webOS apps.

    I'd like a few more hard buttons, and I hope we can assign one touch to the keyboard like we can now for apps, speed dial and web urls. Doesn't seem like that would be a feature to take away. then again, they've departed from many things that made the treo successful so who knows anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by B-model View Post
    I'm sorry - but there is no base for any of this discussion. Unless you work @ palm or somehow are demoing a pre, no one posting here has ever used the Palm Web OS. THis is all based on Demo videos

    opinion are always welcome, but let's keep this in persepective
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Pooh View Post
    This isn't a defense of Palm or anything... but most of those videos of the reps demo'ing the phone with two hands is probably because when you use a phone one handed, you get in the way of the screen a bit. And the Reps are trying to show off the screen as much as possible when they are doing the demo... therefore by using two hands and using fingers to poke in and out of the necessary "clicks" it becomes easier to show off the screen.

    I also think that is why sometimes the screen is unresponsive too, they are being gingerly and QUICK about their gestures to get through the demo in a sleek and sexy presentation, but that leads to issues with a capacitive touch screen. It happens when I try to go to quickly on my iPhone.
    I agree, I believe that is what causes the unresponsivness. My only concern is the lag. Hopefully this is an issue becuase these are pre-production models. But if they are lagging now I can only imagine how much it will after I start installing apps. everything else on that list I (and I think everyone else as well) can get used to, but a lag that gets worse over time would but the crap out of me when tryong to find something quick.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by sraatc17 View Post
    I agree, I believe that is what causes the unresponsivness. My only concern is the lag. Hopefully this is an issue becuase these are pre-production models. But if they are lagging now I can only imagine how much it will after I start installing apps. everything else on that list I (and I think everyone else as well) can get used to, but a lag that gets worse over time would but the crap out of me when tryong to find something quick.
    Yano what's weird, I found that to be true about my Palm OS Treo... but with my WM Treo's... it was actually the opposite, when I loaded more apps on (especially cleanup utils) the device would get more responsive over time. Especially PMClean... great lil tool. I've done less Hard Resets with (actually only one) with my 800w than with my 650 or 700p.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Pooh View Post
    Yano what's weird, I found that to be true about my Palm OS Treo...
    I have found the same thing, but I havn't used a wm treo to compare. It's not really to bad with my 755 but I find myself trying to limit my downloads, bcause I feel I'm going to disturb a delicate balance.

    If there are any palm developers reading these forums please please please take note. **begs in a hopeless manor**
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    yes, you are sorry. there is no base for your post. this whole forum is based on opinion and speculation.
    Yes. Exactly. My posts are baseless as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    I think webOS apps are a tradeoff. what better way to promote creation of apps then to make it quick and simple. I'm sure we'll see kernel access over time. If they really want webOS to take off, it'll be inevitible. the hardware is capable of much more than simple webOS apps.
    we hope u are correct.
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  20. reidme's Avatar
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       #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by B-model View Post
    Right .... examples
    #9 - "I don't need no stinkin' cloud (or syncin' cloud.)"
    Some people like the cloud idea. others don't. There are lots of threads on this. This is your Opinion.

    #5- "Swiping cards off the screen is cool, not having to is even cooler."
    If you are refering to what is 'cool' this is an opinion, not fact.

    Hey - Like i said, opinions are welcome. That's what makes this board intresting and leads to a good conversation. But let's keep it in persepctive, none of us have used Palm WebOS.
    It's a fact that Palm isn't planning to provide a desktop sync option for webOS (at least initially) and PalmOS does have that. It's a fact that you have to close apps in webOS and you don't have to in PalmOS. What you quoted were my opinions of those facts. You even took the time to edit out the fact part. I'm sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I think the Pre is awesome, I just have some concerns that there might be some features that (for me) will require some getting used to and might never seem as easy to use as PalmOS. I thought there might be some other folks here who felt the same way. Mea culpa.
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