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  1. #41  
    From what I know, you need to have the SDK and the phone to be able to write programs, if you do not have the phone how are you going to test this if the SDK comes out first.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by sbrad425 View Post
    From what I know, you need to have the SDK and the phone to be able to write programs, if you do not have the phone how are you going to test this if the SDK comes out first.
    "emulator"
    Switched from the iPhone to Treo Pro
  3. #43  
    It's already been stated by the developers like Pandora that have already had the chance to port their apps to it, that the emulator works very well.
  4. #44  
    It is getting so depressing checking back only to find there is no new info... Come on there has to be something they could tell us about the phone!
    Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 600 (T-Mo) --> Treo 180 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 (T-Mo) --> Treo 650 NC (Cing) --> Treo 680 (Cing) --> Pre (Sprint)

  5. #45  
    Microsoft? Market timing? Are you kidding? Microsoft has been late, frequently YEARS late, on every major OS release. They've been late on most releases of Office, too. Microsoft products sell big no matter when they are released because there are few alternatives. Almost every computer maker starts selling the new OS as soon as it's released, and most don't give you a choice. Timing has nothing to do with it.

    Now then, Palm clearly doesn't have the power of MS. But I still think market timing is over-rated. Apple didn't sell all it's phones in the first month. Lot's of phones have been introduced since then, but the iPhone continues to outsell all of them. The Pre won't be successful if Palm sells 50,000 the first day, 200,000 the first week, and next to none in month 6. To be successful, it needs to provide features, style and quality over the long term. If it's so weak that a new iPhone will destroy it, that'll happen whether the iPhone comes out before the Pre, or 6 months later.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk5 View Post
    It is getting so depressing checking back only to find there is no new info... Come on there has to be something they could tell us about the phone!
    would be awesome if they could release one little tidbit of info every day leading up to the release. Imagine what kind of crazy buzz that would create! People would have something to be excited about every day.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Pooh View Post
    To start off saying no insult intended and then to call people (namely me) infantile is childish in its own right. When you critique someones opinions (which there is nothing wrong with) with harsh words, then there is offense intended. You've done that several times in other threads, you claim no offense but then act like that will absolve you from offending as much as possible. You don't get a "get out of jail free" card when you preface statements and diatribes.

    Anyway... You are a fool to think initial excitement and WoW doesn't sell. And you're a bigger fool to think letting said excitement pass by isn't a big deal (i.e. Ask Sony about the Xperia).
    Thanks for saving me some keystrokes.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  8. #48  
    A couple of observations.

    There are three prime audiences, the capital markets, the opinion leaders in consumer tech oriented sites, and the potential smart phone buying individuals. The timing of the announcement probably had more to do with Sprint and Palm's VERY acute needs with the capital markets than prospective buyers of the phone.

    On the example of Microsoft and its product launches, this is not really analogous. Microsoft sells software. It sells the great majority in B2B in huge orders by OEM computer makers (windows OS, WM OS) and even it productivity software sales are in great portion institutional large buyers. Microsoft has no substantial competition in either business or consumer sales, it s near monopolistic, vs the smartphone and smartphone OS, and mobile carrier markets, which are under intense competition.

    When it comes to consumer expectations from the press, the buzz etc, in some ways there are expiries on aging hype (and a few months is elderly), but anticipation, if handled correctly, has its own benefits to the message seller.

    All they hype is double edged in other ways as well. We know that any significant bugs or undelivered promises will be more damaging, perhaps fatal to Palm, in ways that Apple, HTC, and Rim don't have to worry about. These companies and their carriers are also workign on larger economies of scale, with larger marketing budgets and more room to maneuver and respond. Sprint and Palm have essentially zero margin for error.

    And the active comparisons by Palm and Sprint of the Pre to iPhone carry real dangers. The core metric in the consumer mind for upscaling on iphone and ipod for value added, is memory capacity. Pre is coming in at equal to the lower older iphone model. (we can all argue why this is not as important, but we can't say the metric is embedded in the consumer mind).

    We also can't forget the device is launching on Sprint. Again we can argue that its poor reputation is undeserved, but we can't argue it doesn't exist, nor can we argue that Spirnt has the lowest numbers, and lowest paying customers (the lowest ARPU) ie less customers and of those customers less on data already, and that both Sprint and Palm are seriously, profoundly, outgunned on marketing and advertisng budgets.

    I don't think the wow is wearing off. But Palm loses ground with every day. Every day is closer to the next iphone. Every day is less sprint customers and more ATT and Verizon customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    In the meantime, what exactly is happening in the mobile world to erode the good will this device has built already? Samsung and other companies are announcing Android phones at MWC? Big whoop. Apple will announce an iPhone refresh in June? Great. Don't think there are too many people going "Man, the only thing stopping me from getting a Pre is if Apple drops an iPhone with 8-16GB more of memory and another megapixel on their mediocre camera." It'll be the virtually the same device that exists now with the exact same OS, apps, and form factor.

    Windows Mobile 6.5? RIM finally fixes the myriad of bugs on their latest devices? Just not world shaking developments.
    Sorry I think this misses the mark and can come from the myopia of following just one company.

    As I said, every day there are less Sprint customers. Every day there are almost 20,000 iPhones sold on ATT alone(yes 1.8 million iphones a quarter on ATT alone).

    There are earth shattering developments and there will surely be more exciting ones over the next year. Everything gets trumped and trumped quickly.

    You don't think the next iPhone will be a serious problem for Palm? Are you kidding? If Palm waits that long it will be an EXACT replay of the abortive $200 million dollar instinct "iPhone killer" marketing debacle launched comparing the Instinct to the old iPhone just a the new one was getting all the press.

    WM's not a threat? Please. WM is on enteprise as is RIM. These are massive markets. Try and sell a new untested OS to thsoe kind of institutions, their IT departments are usually the most conservative.

    People are arguing back and forth about SDK vs Emulator. That is not the issue. Teh issue is the enonomies developers have to take into account,. the number of current and potetial platforms. WM is 20 million. iPhone is 22 million. HTC, which is swimming in cash and groing will be dropping a very large number of powerful handsets. Have you seen the Toshiba? 4.1" WVGA 800x480 and a one gig processor!

    I am optimistic about the Pre. But we are going to see an avalanche of new and very powerful handsets in the next year.
  9. #49  
    You're looking at it the wrong way. As palm has said, let the iphone be the iphone. Palm is looking at the smartphone market exploding and would be happy to just take a share of it.

    Consider the iphone as an entry level smartphone or basically replacing dumbphones as the new dumbphone standard in time. The Pre is aiming to be a bit more advanced. For those wanting a bit more than the kiddie starter phone from apple.

    I still say in time people will frown upon the iphone much like users did AOL over time...which if you remember was very popular at first. That is, if Apple keeps choosing to limit the phone along with features while keeping it dumbed down. It works for now, but its a new market basically and people will get hungry for much more.
  10. #50  
    Agree with cardfan. Palm doesn't have to outsell iPhone, or even take market share away from iPhone. 20,000 continuing sales a week and the Pre will be a huge success for Palm.

    Same thing for WM. Palm appears to be going after the consumer market, not the enterprise, with the Pre.

    Smartphone sales are one of the few bright spots in the current economy, increasing even as sales of most items fall. Palm can succeed by capturing a reasonable percentage of new buyers and upgraders, regardless of what Apple does.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    And the active comparisons by Palm and Sprint of the Pre to iPhone carry real dangers. The core metric in the consumer mind for upscaling on iphone and ipod for value added, is memory capacity. Pre is coming in at equal to the lower older iphone model. (we can all argue why this is not as important, but we can't say the metric is embedded in the consumer mind).
    But 8GB is a secondary selling point of the Pre at best, and tertiary at worst. Palm spent moments of their keynote announcing that, and then spent almost an hour getting applause left and right about the OS and functionality of the device. That's the differentiator. Having equivalent memory to an iPhone isn't going differentiate the device at all.

    We also can't forget the device is launching on Sprint. Again we can argue that its poor reputation is undeserved, but we can't argue it doesn't exist, nor can we argue that Spirnt has the lowest numbers, and lowest paying customers (the lowest ARPU) ie less customers and of those customers less on data already, and that both Sprint and Palm are seriously, profoundly, outgunned on marketing and advertisng budgets.

    I don't think the wow is wearing off. But Palm loses ground with every day. Every day is closer to the next iphone. Every day is less sprint customers and more ATT and Verizon customers.
    And the way to reverse that is to release a phone that there is no stock of with an unfinished OS and an unreleased SDK? The only way to get more Sprint customers is to execute a flawless launch.

    There are earth shattering developments and there will surely be more exciting ones over the next year. Everything gets trumped and trumped quickly.
    Like the iPhone? Or the RAZR? Or the Blackberry? These are handsets that have stayed stable and successful for years with nothing more than timely refreshes. Pre and Palm's Web OS can do the same if launched and maintained properly.

    You don't think the next iPhone will be a serious problem for Palm? Are you kidding? If Palm waits that long it will be an EXACT replay of the abortive $200 million dollar instinct "iPhone killer" marketing debacle launched comparing the Instinct to the old iPhone just a the new one was getting all the press.
    Wow. Talk about apples and oranges.

    The Instinct is a dumbphone launched with a crappy OS, crappy browser, crappy screen, no apps, no onboard memory, no partners and it rightfully failed when people bought it and began returning it in droves. The iPhone 3G had nothing to do with it, and Sprint's "iPhone killer" ads were Web only (and were updated with new content when the iPhone 3G hit). All of the print and TV advertising tried to sell the Instinct on its own merits. It failed because it sucked, not because the iPhone 3G came out.

    The Palm Pre is a mega-capable smartphone that is launching with a superior OS, fantastic browser, great screen, lots of onboard memory, hardware/software features iPhone doesn't have, partners galore, and definite plans for lots of apps and an ondevice "App Catalog". People are clamoring for it in a way that never happened with the Instinct, and the company behind it is committed in a way Samsung could never be.

    WM's not a threat? Please. WM is on enteprise as is RIM. These are massive markets. Try and sell a new untested OS to thsoe kind of institutions, their IT departments are usually the most conservative.
    And the Pre isn't positioned as an Enterprise device yet. There's certainly nothing WM offers or is poised to offer in the next 12 months that will eat at Pre sales. Nothing. In fact, let's take a look at what you write below:

    the number of current and potetial platforms. WM is 20 million. iPhone is 22 million. HTC, which is swimming in cash and groing will be dropping a very large number of powerful handsets. Have you seen the Toshiba? 4.1" WVGA 800x480 and a one gig processor!
    Have you seen the video of it in action? They're demoing games, but it cannot do multitouch and has almost no buttons! The screen is unresponsive to the point that it takes 6-7 taps just to get the time to display. And even with all of that power, screen transitions are still laggy. HTC has BEEN dropping powerful WM handsets. They sell just fine - in the millions even - and yet Windows Mobile marketshare (and sales) is dropping like a rock. Just check the NPD sales surveys for last year. They're in last place (excepting Garnet, which has been defunct for some time now)!

    The Pre has nothing to worry about from WM (and doesn't HTC manufacture the Pre hardware anyway?), RIM is just trying to stabilize their last two flagship handsets, and Android has yet to cause any real excitement. I think Palm will be okay.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You mean like how they "outmarketed" Apple's Bill Gates-parodying commercials that made PCs look relentlessly uncool with their oh-so-successful "I'm a PC" campaign?

    Or how Windows Mobile "outmarketed" or "out-timed" their competition....er...ever?

    Or how they cemented Vista's reputation as a turkey with their "Mojave Experiment" commercials that blamed the consumer and their stupidity for Vista's rep?

    Or how the Zune has been a failure, and Windows is losing marketshare, and Windows Mobile is losing marketshare, and they're slashing thousands of jobs while Apple is rock steady and climbing?

    THAT Microsoft?
    Wow... I never thought that using the "M word" in a post would get so much attention... ha, ha. Don't get me wrong, my intent is not to defend or advocate Microsoft... I'm an Apple man myself. The world of computing would be cleaner, prettier, faster and happier if Apple had majority market share in desktop and enterprise computing... but, they don't. We'll have to wait and see what the future holds. One thing's for sure, the trends you mention above are certainly an indication that Microsoft's way of doing business is dated, and just PC'ish.

    As hard as it may be for us to keep emotions at bay on this topic, I will try to clarify my previous post. What I meant by timing in the case of Microsoft is that they have often (always) found themselves guilty of anti-competition tactics (announcements, etc.) that are strategically timed to turn attention away from the competition's product and towards the next version of MS Whatever. Unfortunately as mentioned already, they then take months or in some case years to actually have that product materialize. In the meantime they string consumers along with klunky beta's, launch events, screen shots, product tours, white papers (zzzzzzz...), even certifications!!! and last but not least... stupid code names.

    As ridiculous as this approach seems in black and white, it has worked well for them. Unfortunately for MS, this approach is proving less and less successful. Consumers are becoming more and more informed and tech-savvy, but less and less patient to wait on the release candidate of a product, when they know that there's already a slew developers working on SP1 and SP2 for the same product! Admittedly, it's impossible to cover all the factors contributing to their market dominance in one post or even 1000, but none of us can deny their success, like it or not. By us even having to admit that consumers are "forced" into using MS products is evidence of that.

    Coming back to how this relates to the Pre. Palm chose to do the big launch at CES and got everyone's attention, which is great, but they have to fill in the blanks between now and launch date. I agree that the internet is flooded with excitement about the Pre, but take a look and see how many posts are turning a little negative in tone because of the silence from Palm since CES. Just take a look at the Pre's developer blog and the mood is quite clear... or even the existence of this very thread and many like it.

    I want the Pre to succeed just as much as the next guy... I just hope that Palm play all their cards right.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Consider the iphone as an entry level smartphone or basically replacing dumbphones as the new dumbphone standard in time.
    Wow. That's a powerful statement. Part of its power is in its potential truth.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You think Apple is going to attach a keyboard to the iPhone or completely revamp the OS to a new architecture when it'd have to remain compatible with thousands of apps using the old one? Really?
    I know it's not what I think that matters, but how about one of the most reliable tech reporters for The Register? An iPhone with a keyboard?

    Apple knows that the main reason most Blackberry users haven't switched to iPhone is because of the lack of a physical keyboard. As the article argues... Is there anything wrong with the on-screen keyboard? No. But to many the thought of using it is enough to keep them away.

    On the web standard development tool... obviously Apple will never revamp their entire iPhone architecture. Wow... that would be, well... absolutely pointless and un-Apple like. Acually, they've already enabled 3rd party development using web standards. Ever heard of the Web-App Store? I must admit I never gave it a thought till now...

    With something like Aptana Studio iPhone plugin for Eclipse, any web developer can now also potentially develop apps for the iPhone using Web Based standards! HTML, CSS and AJAX. Tools are free, you don't have to pay a fee to register... 3200 apps and growing. Wow. See you later... I've got some coding to do.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by beeno7 View Post
    I know it's not what I think that matters, but how about one of the most reliable tech reporters for The Register? An iPhone with a keyboard?

    Apple knows that the main reason most Blackberry users haven't switched to iPhone is because of the lack of a physical keyboard. As the article argues... Is there anything wrong with the on-screen keyboard? No. But to many the thought of using it is enough to keep them away.
    This is possible in the same way that "anything is possible." It's highly unlikely. All of their current apps are developed for touchscreen and accelerometer usage, not hardware keyboard usage. And Apple has shown little interest in different form factors: it would be an implicit admission that the current one is flawed.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    This is possible in the same way that "anything is possible."
    Amen to that... sorry to add to the speculation. Enough of that around to make anyone ill.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Having equivalent memory to an iPhone isn't going differentiate the device at all.
    You mean equivalent to the current entry level iphone. You are right it isn't going to differentiate it, it is going to tie it as equal or less in peoples' minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Wow. Talk about apples and oranges.
    The Instinct is a dumbphone launched with a crappy OS, crappy browser, crappy screen, no apps, no onboard memory, no partners and it rightfully failed when people bought it and began returning it in droves. All of the print and TV advertising tried to sell the Instinct on its own merits. It failed because it sucked, not because the iPhone 3G came out.
    Sorry this is very misleading. The Instinct and Pre launch were nearly identical.

    You are looking at it from a tech point of view. The devices will be identified, differentiated and branded by marketing, not by specs.

    The marketing of the Instinct and Pre, which set for the next six months by 90% by Sprint, not Palm) are nearly identical and very different than other devices.

    Instinct: Announced publicly about four months prior launch
    PRe: announced publicly about four months prior launch

    Instinct: takes "Best in show" by voting at top industry conference (CTIA)
    Pre: takes "Best in show" by voting at top industry conference (CTIA)

    Instinct: Tied to iphone from minute by sellers and their PRPRPR $people$
    Pre: Tied to iphone from minute by sellers and their PRPRPR $people$

    Instinct: announced jointly by the head do the maker company and the head of Sprint at a major pubic event
    PRe: announced jointly by the head do the maker company and the head of Sprint at a major pubic event

    Instinct: Tied on the day of product announcement to simply everything
    Pre: Tied on the day of product announcement to simply everything

    Instinct: compared by Sprint to the iphone
    Pre: compared by Sprint to the iphone

    You maybe right in one sense, Instinct maker Samsung and Palm are apples and oranges. Samsung is the second larges handset maker in the world, with sales of 200 million handsets last year (what is that 50 times more than Palm?).

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The iPhone 3G had nothing to do with it, and Sprint's "iPhone killer" ads were Web only (and were updated with new content when the iPhone 3G hit).
    WTF, LOL! Sprint announced a $100 to $200 million TV, Print and web camping to compare Instinct to the iPhone. They announced $100 million in TV as iphone killer at CTIA itself.

    Yes they canceled it and backtracked, but because they found out the new iphone was to be announced a few months later. That was my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The Pre has nothing to worry about from WM (and doesn't HTC manufacture the Pre hardware anyway?), .
    You are confused entirely. HTC deosnt make the Pre hardware! Do you read any trade pronunciation for all of your claims?
  18. #58  
    I personally enjoy listening to McNamee. He does not entertain interviewers questions with an "official competitor" when asked who their greatest competition is. They are competing in the open area between Apple and RIM.

    As Roger McNamee stated in this interview with Kara Swisher:
    http://www.precentral.net/roger-mcnamee-our-hero

    "We had to believe that palm could be successfull without the failure of either Apple or Rim. In fact we believe that both Apple and Rim will continue to be incredibly successful. But we think the view only nature of the iPhone will have limited market appeal. It's a big market, but it's not everything. And we think corporate email is a subset of the market...."
    If you found my post useful then please sign up for a Dropbox Account, I could use the extra 250mb of storage.

    HOW TO: Zip/Unzip via Pre/Pixi using Terminal
    HOW TO: Modify DTMF audio (webOS 1.4.5 or earlier)
    Palm Pre wallpapers
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    it would be an implicit admission that the current one is flawed.
    Sorry, but if we applied this logic... we'd all still be using smoke signals and stone tablets. At no time has anyone suggested a complete replacement of the current form factor. Merely an alternative.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by NachoB View Post
    I personally enjoy listening to McNamee. He does not entertain interviewers questions with an "official competitor" when asked who their greatest competition is.
    Except Palm is spinning all over that it is up against the iphone. Have you seen the scores of notes on the Pre int eh financial press, the Palm people are always pushing the comparision.

    McNamee is trying publicly to change a message that he and his people already cemented in the minds of the critical publics including the press and markets. It is a kind of damage control
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