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  1. #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    And for the people looking for 32GB?

    And the people with 160GB iPods looking for a phone?

    What about video people looking for a video out?

    What about people looking for VGA screens?

    Why not offer options for them?

    Simple answer: They cannot afford to with ONE shot at re-establishing themselves. There can only be one Pre for now. Palm can't afford to guess about people wanting 16GB or this or that, spend their very precious dollars making it, and then have inventory sitting around when it turns out to not be that popular or it's too expensive.

    And most importantly, if they can only have one Pre at the moment, it's gotta compete against the least expensive iPhone in price as well as features. 16GB of onboard memory would cripple Palm in the former, even if it gave them the edge in the latter.

    The option would have been an expansion slot on the 8GB, if that is the only model they can offer at this time. I could have used my 8GB microSD to make near 16GB(of course apps, OS and stuff will take up some of the internal space).

    To not even offer the option of expansion, either by a card slot(this one would be cheaper assuming that they can only release one model) or another model, doesn't fly with me. You don't have to imitate Apple 100%!!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  2. tonygoes's Avatar
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    #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    You don't have to imitate Apple 100%!!
    They're not imitating Apple. John Rubenstein designed this phone - they ARE Apple!
  3. #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Palm just called me and said they are convinced.

    Because of this Thread, they have decided to never build a Pre with more than 8gb.

    People who carry more than 8gb of info are just inefficient, and the pre isn't tageted at inefficient people.
    Success. My free Pre is in the post.

    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    +1.

    I'd also add that having lots of media with you isn't about listening to music for days on end (the 'who needs a weeks worth of music?' argument). It's about having more choice.
    So it is about being indecisive? (that was rhetorical btw). This entire discussion is << silly - Ed. by Dieter >> for the reasons I outlined previously. No smartphone is designed to enable you to carry your entire music or video collection around. If that is something you require then there are countless dedicated devices available. Expecting (demanding) more storage for something that is simply not required by the vast majority of users, can never be utilised by anyone and is not viable for Palm's initial device is being unreasonable. People squabbling over the amount of storage highlights that Palm have done the business with the Pre.

    < < ed. by dieter -- relevance > >

    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter Bohn View Post
    everybody simma down in here, don't want to close threads.
    While my initial spiel was less than diplomatic my only defense is that it was 0433. That and I hate hoarders!

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4101931.stm
    From those mythical lands beyond the great USA...

    It is a convergence device not mankind's disc/filmography.
  4. #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    That and I hate hoarders!
    And apparently business users
  5. #165  
    yeah, if my needs were simple, I wouldn't need the stupid phone in the first place...duh.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    And apparently business users
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  6. #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    To not even offer the option of expansion, either by a card slot(this one would be cheaper assuming that they can only release one model) or another model, doesn't fly with me. You don't have to imitate Apple 100%!!
    Well, let's think about this for a moment. Why would a company in dire financial straits partially emulate a business model that has established Apple as a leader in the smartphone market with just ONE phone, and has made them one of the very select few profitable consumer electronics companies operating in this current economy?

    Gosh....I wonder why they would do that...
  7. #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    No smartphone is designed to enable you to carry your entire music or video collection around.
    What does this even mean? If a smartphone is able to carry your entire music library, and will play the files, in what way is it not 'designed' to carry your whole collection? Whether a smartphone can carry your whole music library obviously depends on the size of the library, capacity of the phone, what else you want to store etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    Expecting (demanding) more storage for something that is simply not required by the vast majority of users, can never be utilised by anyone and is not viable for Palm's initial device is being unreasonable.
    Since that's a reply to my post I guess it's aimed at me, and frankly I think it's pretty out of order to suggest that I've been 'demanding' anything at all in this thread. What I'm 'expecting' is that Palm will deliver an 8 GB Pre at launch and higher capacities will follow. What I *want* is the higher capacity devices asap.

    Palm has designed the device as (amongst other things, of course) a multimedia device and demoed video and music at CES. I think Palm know that more storage capacity would make it better for that and have hinted at higher capacities to come.
  8. #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    And apparently business users
    Why would I hate myself?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    What does this even mean? If a smartphone is able to carry your entire music library, and will play the files, in what way is it not 'designed' to carry your whole collection? Whether a smartphone can carry your whole music library obviously depends on the size of the library, capacity of the phone, what else you want to store etc.
    It is quite simple (and you already know the answer). No smartphone has been designed with the intention of enabling a user to carry their entire media collection around with them. Why? The storage requirements are simply too great for something that is only one facet of the device. No convergence device will fully replace every dedicated device at this point. If your personal needs exceed the norm then you will need to continue to carry the dedicated device that meets your needs. You need to differentiate between design, capability and need.

    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    Since that's a reply to my post I guess it's aimed at me, and frankly I think it's pretty out of order to suggest that I've been 'demanding' anything at all in this thread. What I'm 'expecting' is that Palm will deliver an 8 GB Pre at launch and higher capacities will follow. What I *want* is the higher capacity devices asap.

    Palm has designed the device as (amongst other things, of course) a multimedia device and demoed video and music at CES. I think Palm know that more storage capacity would make it better for that and have hinted at higher capacities to come.
    It was a reply to both your post and the overall discussion. Apologies if my second sentence, which started with 'this entire discussion', was somehow unclear. Either way I maintain that the expectation/demand for more than 8GB has little to do with actual needs or daily use and more to do with human nature. As I said previously that incorporates the desire to want more and, more importantly, be seen to have more.

    Palm will no doubt release a higher capacity Pre but they will merely be feeding a false market. Good for them but I am not going to be swayed by additional capacity unless it also involves additional features. In that sense it is a lauch Pre for me and then a wait for the replacement. If people want to miss out on a launch Pre in order to hoard then that is their right. Palm will get their money regardless and that is the most important thing at this stage.
    From those mythical lands beyond the great USA...

    It is a convergence device not mankind's disc/filmography.
  9. #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    Either way I maintain that the expectation/demand for more than 8GB has little to do with actual needs or daily use and more to do with human nature.
    Every day I choose songs from the music on my (essentially full) 16 GB iPhone. I also have pdf, Word and image files on the device I access frequently. Do I need to to do that? I suppose not. In the extreme, I could carry printouts of all the files and a guitar. Could I live with 8 GB? Sure I could but it would involve a lot of shuffling of stuff on an off the device and sod's law would be bound to apply - you can just bet the document I needed or the album I wanted to listen to would be one of the ones not currently on the device.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    As I said previously that incorporates the desire to want more and, more importantly, be seen to have more.
    You have to get *really* close to a 16 GB iPhone to tell it from the 8 GB version

    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    Palm will no doubt release a higher capacity Pre but they will merely be feeding a false market.
    That'll be me then, buying it and using it as intended. Completely false

    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    Good for them but I am not going to be swayed by additional capacity unless it also involves additional features.
    We just have different needs and wants. It doesn't make either of us wrong.
  10. #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    Success. My free Pre is in the post.



    So it is about being indecisive? (that was rhetorical btw). This entire discussion is << silly - Ed. by Dieter >> for the reasons I outlined previously. No smartphone is designed to enable you to carry your entire music or video collection around. If that is something you require then there are countless dedicated devices available. Expecting (demanding) more storage for something that is simply not required by the vast majority of users, can never be utilised by anyone and is not viable for Palm's initial device is being unreasonable. People squabbling over the amount of storage highlights that Palm have done the business with the Pre.

    < < ed. by dieter -- relevance > >
    How about enough storage so we don't have to keep syncing to listen to something new? Or the option to add more storage? Nokia and Samsung can do it.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Well, let's think about this for a moment. Why would a company in dire financial straits partially emulate a business model that has established Apple as a leader in the smartphone market with just ONE phone, and has made them one of the very select few profitable consumer electronics companies operating in this current economy?

    Gosh....I wonder why they would do that...
    You people who keep saying that forget PALM DOES NOT HAVE THE "COOL" FACTOR LIKE APPLE. They do not have the image, plain and simple. They do not know how to advertise or make themselves look desirable to the masses. It's illogical but Apple gets a pass for all kinds of blunders that no one else can, simply because they somehow got themselves to be viewed as the company that dictates to the consumer what you need instead of the other way around. It's the magic of Steve Jobs I guess, but Palm has no such magic.

    I've seen barely any mention of the Pre outside of tech based boards or techie articles, which tells me Palm still hasn't reached the masses.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post

    ...
    I've seen barely any mention of the Pre outside of tech based boards or techie articles, which tells me Palm still hasn't reached the masses.
    Surprisingly, I did see a recent article originating from Los Angeles in our News Ltd newspaper on techie gadgets, and the Pre featured as the phone. No mention of iPhone. That was nice to see.
  13. #173  
    There is another angle here that no one seems to discuss: Palm also has said that they failed to include an expansion slot in order to make the user experience more simple. I'm not sure what that means exactly, but there are people out there who have trouble finding files they've downloaded on their computers. Also, dealing with multiple file locations adds a bit of extra complexity to applications. The Pre is just supposed to work without thinking about the device.

    8GB will more than meet my needs, so the lack of expansion isn't an issue for me. But I think it would be good to know I could upgrade the memory some day, or do backups to the card. Still, when I think about my mother using this phone, it will be easier for her if she doesn't have to think about external storage.
  14. #174  
    Well according to the people on here that don't agree, of course it makes us wrong. How silly of us to actually want the Pre to function as well as it possibly can. They blow all of our needs out of proportion to try and show us how silly we are. We want more memory to be able to store more. Yet that equates to having our entire collection that resides on our computers to be put on our phone. It's not even worth arguing. You get exaggerated comparisons along with "the iphone doesn't do it". It's a poor broken record. Let's re-rip our entire AV libraries so the sound quality and picture quality suck so we can fit everything that's ever been recorded since the dawn of time on our phones and pray there's enough room left to put the files on it we use for work. These people obviously leave simple lives and have simple needs and think everybody outside of these forums is even simpler than themselves which would make us completely ridiculous and irrational for wanting something that is beyond the most basic of functions on even a free dumbphone in this day and age while also being something we've enjoyed on every treo since the 600. Let them be happy carrying multiple devices when one can actually cut that down a bit. I'm not asking the Pre to replace my 80gb Zune which fits my entire music collection at the moment. I am asking it to replace my Sansa Fuze and Cowon D2 which it could easily do with a card slot. Then the only thing I would need a separate media player for is to go for a run or paddle.

    And the idea of we would always want more no matter what they did is completely farcical. You'd see the twenty threads on size and expansion probably dwindle to one or two if it came with 16 gigs standard.

    Funny thing, was remembering the 270/300 and realized blazer looked just as crappy then as it does now. Amazing they couldn't come up with a better browser until they trashed the POS.
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    We just have different needs and wants. It doesn't make either of us wrong.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    Well according to the people on here that don't agree, of course it makes us wrong. How silly of us to actually want the Pre to function as well as it possibly can. They blow all of our needs out of proportion to try and show us how silly we are.
    While you, of course, accurately represent my position, right?

    We want more memory to be able to store more. Yet that equates to having our entire collection that resides on our computers to be put on our phone. It's not even worth arguing. You get exaggerated comparisons along with "the iphone doesn't do it". It's a poor broken record. Let's re-rip our entire AV libraries so the sound quality and picture quality suck so we can fit everything that's ever been recorded since the dawn of time on our phones and pray there's enough room left to put the files on it we use for work. These people obviously leave simple lives and have simple needs and think everybody outside of these forums is even simpler than themselves which would make us completely ridiculous and irrational for wanting something that is beyond the most basic of functions on even a free dumbphone in this day and age while also being something we've enjoyed on every treo since the 600.
    This is just pretty much nonsense, sir. As I've said, I would love more memory to store more as well. Who wouldn't? This is a meaningless qualifier. The point is that I can fit a pretty good chunk of 320 bitrate MP3s and movies on 8GB. If I want more, I can just swap it out. The Pre holds between 1-3 DAYS of music. (A 320 bitrate MP3 is about 2.5MB/minute of audio. Even if you used 5GB for music alone, you could fit 2000 songs). You will run out of charge before you run out of music! Even if you only were in the mood for 100 of those songs on a given day, that's almost 7 hours! And you'd still have plenty of space (Almost 3GB) for video and work files.

    Let them be happy carrying multiple devices when one can actually cut that down a bit. I'm not asking the Pre to replace my 80gb Zune which fits my entire music collection at the moment. I am asking it to replace my Sansa Fuze and Cowon D2 which it could easily do with a card slot. Then the only thing I would need a separate media player for is to go for a run or paddle.
    So you would still have multiple devices ANYWAY as you would keep the Zune. Meanwhile, the Pre carries enough music to take you through any given work day (or 2 or 4, even). And you'd go through the same thing with a phone with a microSD slot as well. You'd just swap cards or swap files on the card, but you would also tire of the songs located there at some point. What is the difference between the two?

    And the idea of we would always want more no matter what they did is completely farcical. You'd see the twenty threads on size and expansion probably dwindle to one or two if it came with 16 gigs standard.
    And the proof behind this is where, exactly?
  16. DavidJ's Avatar
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       #176  
    These last several pages of comments and responses are beginning to show a lack of maturity. Grow up people...
  17. #177  
    I don't know about you, but
    1) I don't tailor my responses to you inparticular sir.
    2) If you listen to the same 100 songs a lot of the time it's just sad. Hit random or shuffle once in awhile and listen to something you haven't heard in years.
    3) the zune is not a daily player. The zune sits at home on a deck as a home player and one I use with the speaker dock. I don't expect Palm to make speaker docks for the Pre, and since it doesn't house my entire library I would never use it as my main listening device at home. So you're wrong. I'm not CARRYING AROUND MULTIPLE DEVICES IF THE PRE HAD MORE MEMORY.

    4) You need to quit making assumptions of how people use things. Why would I be switching cards all the time? Again, not trying to always have my entire library with me. Just trying to have more variety with me at one time which I should expect to be able to do as time passes. Memory gets cheaper and the average storage size of players grows. One thing I like to do in listening to more music is find more tunes for working out to keep the variety going. I tend to keep more upbeat music on my flash players. Hear something that's good for a workout, I add it to the playlist. When I get through certain albums and I find it's not a very motivating one for that purpose, I delete it and add new content. It's definitely not a daily thing to dump old and add new to it. I do keep other music on there as well but not to the same degree. And I'll create new playlists and dump music I don't think i'd want to listen to on a daily basis. And of course the variety of content I enjoy grows so of course I want to increase my memory over time. Just happens it can coincide with larger cards becoming cheaper. You even said "at some point" which definitely wouldn't be daily or weekly swapping or changing. Some of the music would never make it to the flash device. Christmas tunes only go on for a few weeks. The rest of the year it collects dust. Broadway stuff doesn't make it to my flash player as does the extreme easy listening type stuff. It does sit on a small card to slip in for traveling, relaxing and sleeping purposes.

    4) Your replies are becoming more and more nonsense because you keep dictating how we should portion out our memory usage. I used to think you were the voice of reason to the negative side of this debate and appreciated the back and forth, but the more you keep dictating how we should use the device and storage it is definitely seen more as nonsense.

    And I need to prove why the threads would dwindle why? We always want more memory, but we wouldn't be this vocal if we thought the included memory was similar to other choices out there. Should we ask you and others to prove we're in the minority for wanting or needing more than 8gb of storage? There's no proof of that either. Just theory and assumptions. Others have plainly pointed out the numerous other phones that have expandable storage and some with gigs of built in storage with expandability, regardless of the fact how good or bad they are (at least in your eyes) as devices. Even with your beloved iphone comparisons, they have had 8gb from the get go and you can now get a refurbished 3G one for $100 from AT&T which is half of what you'll be able to get a Pre for if not more than half if they don't hit the $200 mark. 16gb is becoming more and more popular. Maybe you will see 32gb, maybe not. If they do come out with it, I'd bet you'd see the 8gb go bye bye outside of refurbs. Heck the 4gb nano is history outside of the limited edition one while it has been bumped up to 16gb. You can thank MS for that one.

    Others talk about how nobody outside of the forums even knows about mSD cards yet every deal site out there posts mSD card deals all the time, and the sellers constantly sell out of them. 8gb cards at $14 are tough to pass up.

    And you even say you want more memory? So why do you even care to be such a negative voice to those that are actually vocal about thinking the Pre should have more memory whether it's in the form of 16gb built in or 8gb with a card slot?
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  18. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #178  
    Edit: Cut and paste from a different thread because it's more appropriate here.

    -----

    No one can really rationalize to another person how they should be using their phones, what they should have to cut. No one can simply say, "You put 10% of your songs into phone, then switch out the ones you need when you want to hear different songs."

    Some people don't want to have to set it up that way. I know I don't. I have have 8GB. I choose the songs and movies that I deemed essential, left room for additional audiobooks. I make do with that they give me because I have to, because I don't want to have a "dedicated device".

    I'm so lazy that when I upgraded to the Centro, I only left space to fit in my books and didn't even install them because the Centro was fast enough to download them at a reasonable rate over the air from audible.com.

    I simply don't want to be bothered with switching files. You wouldn't be able to just tell me to just change, and I'll go, "Oh ok. You're right."

    I'm fine with the Pre being 8GB, because I can manage with 8GB. Other people feel that it isn't enough for them. 2GB wasn't enough for me when I had my Treo so I used multiple cards, and bought a case that had pockets for extra cards. These people don't have that option.

    If I had more space, I could fill it easy. And no I wouldn't use all of it every day. But I also would use all of it eventually. One of the reasons is so great is that Synergy on the Pre is able to do a lot of things for us that would don't have to maually do. By putting only 8GB people who want more are being forced to manually go through some hoops that they didn't have to before.

    (And this is of course only talking about the cards as a memory issue, and not backups, upgradability, or flexibility in terms of switching the same card to other devices so all your files are localized into one card.)

    We like to talk about how different people need different needs, yet for some reason are trying to tell people who have evaluated their needs "You're wrong. You don't need to do that."

    No matter how much rationalization there is, if they're not happy with their phone, then they're not happy with their phone, no one can just tell them to feel otherwise.
    Last edited by Gerorne; 02/03/2009 at 12:29 AM.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

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  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The Pre holds between 1-3 DAYS of music. (A 320 bitrate MP3 is about 2.5MB/minute of audio. Even if you used 5GB for music alone, you could fit 2000 songs)
    5 GB = 5120 MB

    5120 MB / 2.5 MB/min = 2048 minutes. Depends on the songs, but probably about 500.
  20. #180  
    Anyway, this thread has become way too circular for me and I'm out of it now.

    crogs571, thanks for trying.

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