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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    Personally, storing music (mostly). I don't have a huge music library, currently 2034 songs at an average of 7.87 MB per song (total = 16 GB). I'd like to be able to carry all of that plus some podcasts, videos, apps, documents etc.

    My feeling about this is that it's really nice if a phone can replace a dedicated media player so there's one less device to buy, one less device to carry, one less device to keep charged etc. Take a look at what's on the market now in terms of dedicated players (iPods, Zunes etc): lots of flash players at 8 and 16 GB, some at 32 GB; HD players at over a 100 GB. They're on the market for a reason - people want them and buy them (ok, not so much the Zune ). I don't hold out much hope for expansion, but I really hope the rumour of imminent 16 and 32 GB Pres is true.
    You just proved why it's pointless for the Pre to attempt to replace dedicated audio players:

    Because they would not only compete with the low end (in terms of memory) of the market, but also 120 and 160GB players from Apple and Microsoft. None of these players are losing marketshare because Treos or WM devices can hold microSD cards up to 16GB or 32GB or whatever have you.

    You don't realize it, but that expandable storage media is "just one more thing to buy and keep up with" just as much as a dedicated media player is. Thus, the segment of people using these expandable solutions to replace a dedicated media player is low to the point of negligibility for a major handset manufacturer. And as Apple has proven, a good chunk of onboard storage eliminates that concern for the vast majority of consumers. For the remaining ones, the choice is whether they want to shell out $50-100 for a tiny card (or multiple cards that they have to keep track of) or slightly more for a dedicated player with better software that won't draw on the battery life of their phone.

    And while there are a disproportionate number of the former in this thread and this forum (and other forums), market sales clearly show you (them?) to be no real factor in the success or failure of a handset.
  2. #122  
    aren't you proving the other side when Apple's minimum is 8gb and has been out for quite awhile? If they already have 16gb with 32gb coming, why would Palm bring out a groundbreaking device at the bare minimum? And again, why is the iphone the only phone to get compared to the Pre? People mention other phones with onboard gigs and a card slot, and it gets dismissed and brought back to the iphone.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    And as Apple has proven, a good chunk of onboard storage eliminates that concern for the vast majority of consumers
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  3. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #123  
    That's because the iphone is the phone that it's going to be compared to for a giant chunk of the people that are going to consider buying it. Although the BB Storm will be another phone too, since by considering the Pre means they'd be willing to consider a non iphone.

    Of course comparing to either iphone or storm is really only going to matter if they're considering switching carriers.
  4. machx's Avatar
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    #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    aren't you proving the other side when Apple's minimum is 8gb and has been out for quite awhile? If they already have 16gb with 32gb coming, why would Palm bring out a groundbreaking device at the bare minimum? And again, why is the iphone the only phone to get compared to the Pre? People mention other phones with onboard gigs and a card slot, and it gets dismissed and brought back to the iphone.
    the iPhone *IS* the standard to be compared to.

    Apple sold millions and millions of devices. If Palm can do this, they will be extremely happy.

    By the iPhone's standard, Palm has set the bar higher by using 8 GB since the iPhone started originally with 4 GB.

    I'm sure if the device is successful they'll release larger capacities, but once again as the poll has shown,
    #1 the advanced users on this site require no more than 8 GB
    #2 the users on this site = the 5% most advanced, in fact 95% + are not going to need more than 8 GB
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by machx View Post
    the iPhone *IS* the standard to be compared to.

    Apple sold millions and millions of devices. If Palm can do this, they will be extremely happy.

    By the iPhone's standard, Palm has set the bar higher by using 8 GB since the iPhone started originally with 4 GB.

    I'm sure if the device is successful they'll release larger capacities, but once again as the poll has shown,
    #1 the advanced users on this site require no more than 8 GB
    #2 the users on this site = the 5% most advanced, in fact 95% + are not going to need more than 8 GB
    #1: I'm still not sure where you get the info that advanced users on this site would require no more than 8GB for the Palm PRE!? This is a ridiculous statement considering most "advanced users" on this site have never or rarely used a palm for media capability and the Pre will likely be their first truly combined device.
    #2: Are you just pulling these stats from midair? According to you, PreCentral readers will comprise 5% of the Palm Pre userbase and that every single one of the people on this site are advanced users. You also assume that it's the advanced users that will actually need the extra space when in fact the "non advanced" whatever that means will want just as much space for music and movies and possibly even more.

    So far I've heard you make the same argument over and over and still you fail to make sense.
  6. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #126  
    1 isn't true. The Poll asked what size cards we have, not what size we wished we had or thought was enough. My answer would certainly have been different if it was either of those questions. I held out for the 8 gig card, and bought it as soon as I could, but that doesn't mean I couldn't use 16 or 32. I just didn't feel like spending the money upgrade to more memory.

    And I have no idea how you came up with point number 2. Even if the poll could represent the 5% most advanced users, you cannot make the inference that you did from that poll. It's been pointed out many times that this will definitely be seen as a media device by a lot of buyers, which means music and video. So many buyers will need more memory than the "5% most advanced users" not less.
    Last edited by Gerorne; 01/29/2009 at 11:35 AM.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You just proved why it's pointless for the Pre to attempt to replace dedicated audio players:

    Because they would not only compete with the low end (in terms of memory) of the market, but also 120 and 160GB players from Apple and Microsoft. None of these players are losing marketshare because Treos or WM devices can hold microSD cards up to 16GB or 32GB or whatever have you.
    The fact that phones can't reasonably compete with dedicated HD players in terms of capacity (at least not this year) doesn't mean they can't compete with flash players. The iPhone comes with 8 or 16 GB of flash, same as the Nano. FWIW, everyone I know with an iPhone 3G has the 16 GB model. That includes me, BTW.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You don't realize it, but that expandable storage media is "just one more thing to buy and keep up with" just as much as a dedicated media player is. Thus, the segment of people using these expandable solutions to replace a dedicated media player is low to the point of negligibility for a major handset manufacturer.
    Agreed (not the bit about me not realising it ), but that argument ignores non-expandable phones that can replace dedicated devices and thus ignores the major player: 17 million iPhones sold in 18 months, over 11 million in the last 6 months alone (to end December).

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    And as Apple has proven, a good chunk of onboard storage eliminates that concern for the vast majority of consumers.
    Exactly! So we agree that it is possible for a phone to compete with dedicated media players... don't we?

    Personally I replaced an 8 GB Nano with a 16 GB iPhone and I'd be very tempted to replace the iPhone with a Pre if it had the same capacity, and it would be more likely still with 32 GB . That said, I'm not sure I really buy the argument that I'll always need more and more capacity and I'll never be satisfied. Like I said, for me capacity is mostly about music and I don't see me needing more than 32 GB for years to come. It's about hitting the sweet spot, I think, and the complaints you hear here and elsewhere about the Pre's capacity indicate that for many (not all, of course) that's somewhere north of 8 GB.
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    aren't you proving the other side when Apple's minimum is 8gb and has been out for quite awhile? If they already have 16gb with 32gb coming, why would Palm bring out a groundbreaking device at the bare minimum? And again, why is the iphone the only phone to get compared to the Pre? People mention other phones with onboard gigs and a card slot, and it gets dismissed and brought back to the iphone.
    I already addressed this in one of the other threads, but Cliff Notes...:

    - Palm can really only compete against the $199 8GB iPhone for the moment because they don't have the resources to throw out multiple models at launch and hope they all stick (Apple does, and they quickly found out that the 4GB iPhone was a complete waste of time and money).
    - Palm must also release but ONE handset as the flagship, and that flagship cannot be much more expensive than the $199 8GB iPhone or they are dead, dead, dead.
    - The other phones with onboard gigs and storage are the Samsung Omnia (failure), Blackberry Storm (sold a lot, but high return rate and the 'Net is rife with complaints and bad, Vista-like first impressions), and Nokia N97 (still to come, but would cost almost $500 even subsidized and would also be DOA against $199 iPhone.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    The fact that phones can't reasonably compete with dedicated HD players in terms of capacity (at least not this year) doesn't mean they can't compete with flash players. The iPhone comes with 8 or 16 GB of flash, same as the Nano. FWIW, everyone I know with an iPhone 3G has the 16 GB model. That includes me, BTW.
    Useless anecdotal evidence. The 8GB iPhone has been and continues to be their best selling model. This goes for when it was their most expensive model, and for when it was their least expensive as well.

    Personally I replaced an 8 GB Nano with a 16 GB iPhone and I'd be very tempted to replace the iPhone with a Pre if it had the same capacity, and it would be more likely still with 32 GB . That said, I'm not sure I really buy the argument that I'll always need more and more capacity and I'll never be satisfied. Like I said, for me capacity is mostly about music and I don't see me needing more than 32 GB for years to come. It's about hitting the sweet spot, I think, and the complaints you hear here and elsewhere about the Pre's capacity indicate that for many (not all, of course) that's somewhere north of 8 GB.
    Not even anywhere close to being close to being close to being near the same ballpark where "a majority" of consumers are. Palm is not Microsoft. They can't launch a line of Pres instantly with storage capacity and price points to equal each of Apple's offerings, and then sit back and take losses on this line year after year. They have one shot - ONE - with the capital from their backers to get this right. They can only compete against one model of iPhone, and they wisely chose the 8GB to do it against.
  10. machx's Avatar
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    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerorne View Post
    1 isn't true. The Poll asked what size cards we have, not what size we wished we had or thought was enough. My answer would certainly have been different if it was either of those questions. I held out for the 8 gig card, and bought it as soon as I could, but that doesn't mean I couldn't use 16 or 32. I just didn't feel like spending the money upgrade to more memory.
    So we're wishing upon a star are we? Do we want to pay for it as well?
  11. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by machx View Post
    So we're wishing upon a star are we? Do we want to pay for it as well?
    I am very confused...
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
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    #132  
    The Pre should use known caching techniques for non-PIM data. For example, the Pre should do the following:

    "If I am on a charger, and it is between midnight and 6AM, and available storage is below a predetermined threshold, then I identify least recently and least frequently used files and push them to the cloud."

    They have already talked about the Pre automatically downloading your maps, news, etc. while you sleep. Why not make room for that information by pushing unused files to cloud storage?

    In my opinion, this is the direction Palm is going. Huge MicroSD cards might be the current trend, but cloud storage and home servers might be their vision of the future.
  13. #133  
    Too lazy to rerip DVDs as a smaller size. Sad but true. :-)

    ETA: It's not a deal-breaker; more of an inconvenience. I would prefer more memory to start with, at least 16GB considering the current market.
    Last edited by MaggieScratch; 01/29/2009 at 02:39 PM.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The 8GB iPhone has been and continues to be their best selling model. This goes for when it was their most expensive model, and for when it was their least expensive as well.
    Well I'll be darned if I can find that data. Do you have a source? What's the breakdown 8 GB vs 16 GB?
  15. machx's Avatar
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    #135  
    Google Drive, *******
  16. #136  
    I don't horde rubbish so 8GB will be fine.
    From those mythical lands beyond the great USA...

    It is a convergence device not mankind's disc/filmography.
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    #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by machx View Post
    Google Drive, *******
    Won't help me when I'm on a plane or out of the country.
    Less than 400 posts to get my own little treo icon!
  18. santas's Avatar
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    #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos View Post
    I don't horde rubbish so 8GB will be fine.
    You know what they say: One man's rubbish is another man's...

    OK, so it's rubbish. I like my rubbish!
    Less than 400 posts to get my own little treo icon!
  19. #139  
    I just don't see the point in carrying x weeks worth of music/video around with me when I will be working for the majority of the day and then I will either be back home, in a hotel, out or have my laptop with me. Plus let's not forget that each additional track adds weight...
    From those mythical lands beyond the great USA...

    It is a convergence device not mankind's disc/filmography.
  20. #140  
    I remember my 486 having a 500mb Hard Drive.
    We all talked like 'how would we ever need that much space'
    Just call me Berd.
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