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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by machx View Post
    the thread is criticizing the "need" of people here for more than 8 GB of space, so technically YOU are trolling
    In what way? Can a Mod confirm this? I thought I was explaining why I personally needed more than 8GB of space or expansion in response to the OP. Everyone has to agree that the OP is right to post???
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    See, that's one reason why a microSD slot would have been good. If they want to offer the 8GB Pre around $200, put in an expansion slot and that would have been an advantage over the iPhone.

    As of now, there isn't a whole lot to get me to risk changing carriers. The webOS is good, but since there's no desktop sync, that's another thing that makes me hesitate until I can see how safe and efficient cloud sync is.
    Expandable storage is "an advantage over iPhone" to very, very, VERY few people. I mean, the Samsung Omnia has 8GB and a microSD slot. It's got a huge battery, optical mouse, wi-fi, and everything else imaginable. And it ain't exactly flying off the shelves.
  3. #83  
    Verizon has the same rates as AT&T, that may be why people see no reason to move, LOL!

    A lot of people hate WM too. But I personally wish the GSM US version would be released. There was supposed to be one, no sign of it yet though.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The option is "this phone" or "wait." Not "this phone" or "that phone."
    "Wait for us to release something in the future" is so vague, it's a non-option IMO.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5. #85  
    Now that I know this:
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Gah. A hard reset is merely to get the OS up and running again. Once the files are on your 8GB of storage, they will remain there UNTIL YOU PERSONALLY DELETE THEM. No data connection would be needed. If you have some apps you have to backup,
    Having an SD card is no longer as big a issue for me.
    8gb will prolly be enough.
    but a 32gb microsd is a lot cheaper than upgrading to the 1-2 year down the road release of the 32Gb Pre.

    And according to this poll 8Gb will prolly be enough for many.
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=175458

    I do think Palm including a Micro SD slot would have caused some to not instantly jump at the release of the 16Gb Pre.

    I think it's a deliberate move for that reason by Palm.
    Just call me Berd.
  6. machx's Avatar
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    #86  
    in 2 years, I will buy the Pre 2. Not a 32 GB microSD. And I bet the pre2 will not have a microSD slot
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The option is "this phone" or "wait." Not "this phone" or "that phone."
    Right but show me the "official" annoucement of a bigger phone. Its vaporware and a rumor at BEST.
    ONE can be spelled as NEO.
    There is no spoon.
  8. #88  
    Oh and is it me or are Mikah912 and machx the same poster? grinz.
    ONE can be spelled as NEO.
    There is no spoon.
  9. machx's Avatar
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    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdhntr23 View Post
    Oh and is it me or are Mikah912 and machx the same poster? grinz.
    yeah god forbid two individuals have the same opinion
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdhntr23 View Post
    Oh and is it me or are Mikah912 and machx the same poster? grinz.
    you figured it out.
    if the consensus is against you , split your personality!
  11. #91  
    whaaaaaaaaaat??? I jest... I joke... I kid... LOL
    ONE can be spelled as NEO.
    There is no spoon.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Expandable storage is "an advantage over iPhone" to very, very, VERY few people.
    I guess you haven't been on the Apple boards over at Howards Forums much, have you. It's a complaint that resurfaces regularly. Lots and lots of folks are looking for the 32 GB iPhone because they're out of storage space.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I mean, the Samsung Omnia has 8GB and a microSD slot. It's got a huge battery, optical mouse, wi-fi, and everything else imaginable. And it ain't exactly flying off the shelves.
    It's just another WM device - nothing makes those fly off the shelf. At the same time, my Omnia holds 24GB (8 internal, 16 in a MicroSD). With my music, photos, videos, work documents (PDFs, Powerpoints, Excels, and Words) plus my 4 active email accounts (with all their attachments) I bounce around .5 GB internal and 1 GB external. I can't wait for the 32GB MicroSDs. You see, I'm converged - I don't want to have to keep re-re-synching data and information if I don't have to.

    Palm remains short-sighted when they settle for 8GB and no external memory - just like when they released the Treo 700W with 32 MB on a WM device. They continue to have this "if the minimum wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum" attitude in their designs and then wonder why previously loyal customers turn against them while other manufacturers (hint: Apple) get to charge a premium while stealing Palm's customer base out from under them.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by machx View Post
    So why do all you people come to the Pre forum to post how much you don't want it? lol

    nothing better to do, no life, or just lying
    To express an opinion which is the whole point of a Forum.

    If you haven't got anything to say about the topic don't post. (Oops! breaking that one myself)

    Most here have more than a passing interest in Palm's success and that is more than enough of a reason to question some design decisions.
    Last edited by johncc; 01/28/2009 at 06:07 PM.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdhntr23 View Post
    Right but show me the "official" annoucement of a bigger phone. Its vaporware and a rumor at BEST.
    Just so I'm clear here, you think Palm - a company that is infamous for making a zillion variations of the same form factor - and Elevation partners spent all of that money on OS development and put on a big show about WebOS...

    ...so that the Pre would be the only model phone they ever put out with this software from here until the company is no more.

    Yeah...them making another WebOS model is vaporware "at best"...
  15. hkklife's Avatar
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    #95  
    Well said, Kupe.

    Off the top of my head, Palm's legacy of "bare minimum efforts" and their fatal flaws:

    Pilot 1000/5000--non-backlit screen

    Palm III--Minimal upgrades from the Palm Pilot despite a higher pricetag and no real expansion capabilities

    Palm VII--Hideously oversized w/ huge antenna, poor implementation of web clipping apps, overpriced data plans on the slow Mobitex network

    m500/m5005--Horrible screen on m505, no digital audio support & too little RAM initially

    i705: Delayed release, poor marketing, too little RAM, stratospheric palm.net data pricing from Cingular, poor web browser

    Tungsten T--Too little RAM, pitiful audio output quality, no MP3 player software included with the unit despite Palm's claims on the box

    Tungsten W--Running OS4 instead of OS5, underpowered CPU, pitifully integrated voice functionality, poorly marketed

    Tungsten C--Mono audio output

    Tungsten T3--Undersized battery given the device's specs, the SD card toasting bug at launch

    T5--No voice recorder. plastic body, worse performance than its predecessors

    Treo 650--~23mb of usable RAM out of the box, less than its predecessor

    LifeDrive--Horrible memory architecture (32mb real ram + microdrive) , stability, & performance

    Treo 700w--Crippled with WinMob & 32mb RAM

    Treo 700p/755p--Horrible lag/NVFS/Bluetooth performance & instability due to "shared" hardware design with the WinMob Treos

    Palm has ALWAYS been short-sighted. They've only realeased a handful of devices ever that can quality as being ahead of the curve for most of their hardware specs and/or been a good value proposition. Off the top of my head I'd call these the T|C, T3, TX, Zire 31 and arguably the Treo 600 (ahead of its time) and the Centro (still an solid value, especially in its 128mb form).

    Apple can get away with cutting corners (fixed battery, no memory card slots on ANY of their products) and omitting obvious features such as cut & paste due to their cult following, overall product quality, strong brand cachet and their whole retail store/iTunes/Mac OS ecosystem. Palm has none of that and should never, EVER settle for being on par with Apple for any feature.

    iPhone doesn't have a microSD slot, voice dialing over BT or video capture? Palm should see all of those as no-brainers, especially since their devices have had 2 of 3 the 3 features above for years.
    Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon Treo 755p-->Verizon Motorola Droid + Verizon Centro--> Verizon Motorola Droid X + Palm TX-->Verizon Droid Bionic + Palm TX
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    I guess you haven't been on the Apple boards over at Howards Forums much, have you. It's a complaint that resurfaces regularly. Lots and lots of folks are looking for the 32 GB iPhone because they're out of storage space.
    Nothing like anecdotal evidence on a message board to prove a point about the global state of a product.

    Also, what does that have to do with people choosing other phones with microSD slots over the iPhone? Answer: Nothing. And that rarely happens anyway. The issue isn't whether someone fills up the given storage space of an object - because that will happen on any object regardless of the capacity - but rather if expandable storage is an effective differentiator versus iPhone or any other phone.

    Based on current sales and market data for the smartphone segment, it clearly is not.

    It's just another WM device - nothing makes those fly off the shelf. At the same time, my Omnia holds 24GB (8 internal, 16 in a MicroSD). With my music, photos, videos, work documents (PDFs, Powerpoints, Excels, and Words) plus my 4 active email accounts (with all their attachments) I bounce around .5 GB internal and 1 GB external. I can't wait for the 32GB MicroSDs. You see, I'm converged - I don't want to have to keep re-re-synching data and information if I don't have to.
    The Omnia is "just" another Windows Media device? It's full touchscreen with no click wheel at the bottom. How many WM devices have that? 8GB onboard storage. How many WM devices have that? 5 megapixel camera. How many WM devices have that? TouchWiz UI on top. How many WM devices have that?

    And you say you're converged, but again, you're making tradeoffs. There's no media player on WM devices that can stand up to dedicated media players like iPhone for ease of use. The screen resolution is 400X200, which makes movies and TV look crappy. Hell, pretty much anything on it looks crappy compared to modern resolutions. The camera's 5 megapixels barely standup to a dedicated 3MP camera with a good lens. It's just like the saying..."Jack of All Trades, Master of None."

    Palm remains short-sighted when they settle for 8GB and no external memory - just like when they released the Treo 700W with 32 MB on a WM device. They continue to have this "if the minimum wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum" attitude in their designs and then wonder why previously loyal customers turn against them while other manufacturers (hint: Apple) get to charge a premium while stealing Palm's customer base out from under them.
    Actually, Apple undercut virtually every real competitor when they dropped the iPhone 3G price, and I can't think of too many phones recently that dropped 66 percent in price in the space of a year while increasing the quality of the model. That - combined with Palm's complete stagnancy until the Pre - is why Apple was able to easily steal Palm customers, along with Windows Mobile and RIM. Now, people are looking forward to the Pre and talking about "coming back" before the device even drops.

    Looks like Palm isn't as myopic as you make them out to be. Gosh...if only they catered to the microSD crowd...maybe someone would actually be excited about the Pre.
    Last edited by mikah912; 01/28/2009 at 06:30 PM.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Just so I'm clear here, you think Palm - a company that is infamous for making a zillion variations of the same form factor - and Elevation partners spent all of that money on OS development and put on a big show about WebOS...
    ...so that the Pre would be the only model phone they ever put out with this software from here until the company is no more.
    That is not at all what he said though. he said it doesn't exist, it isn't being leaked and it isn't the basis for any decision by buyers.

    We are speculating on later models precisely because there are clearly holes in the broadening of the pre's market as exemplified by leaving off expandable memory.

    What will be a notch in the con column for many prospective buyers is the lack of something long wanted on the iphone boards, expandable storage.

    The thing has to do better than Iphone. It has to hit the center of that market and the edges, and it has to compel out outclass iPhone iwhich has some huge externalities to the specs and os per se in its favor: monster brand, better reputation maker (check out BBB ratings), better reputation carrier, (much) deeper maker pockets, much deeper provider pockets, and entire family of products such as the ipod and mac book.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Also, what does have to do with people choosing other phones with microSD slots over the iPhone? Answer: It doesn't. And that rarely happens anyway.:
    let's avoid tautologies without meaning. The very point is that no two companies, ever needed to get people to choose a device over the iphone than Sprint and Palm need buyers to pick the Pre over the ipod today.

    As far as anecdotal evidence, what do yo think the head of Palm was saying when he said people wanted a changeable battery? He is taking own of the two major complaints, expandable memory and swappable battery, from the very sources that you say are just anecdotal.
  18. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #98  
    But the Pre also has to make money. Palm didn't just decide. "You know what? Putting in an SD card slot wouldn't make the phone any bigger to the point that would cause us to sell less phones than otherwise or increase the price of the phone and result in us selling considerably less phones or cut into our profit margins at all... so we could totally put it in, but let's not."

    There is some reason, some where, that Palm looked at the phone, and market they're looking at, and how much money they have, where it won't make them as much money. They're still a business, and that's their main goal. Especially since this is their "last chance" product. Their goal wasn't to just do a little bit better. Their strategy was for this to be the one product that will revitalize them, so they need to do whatever it takes to make as much as they can, or there are no other products.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by hkklife View Post

    Tungsten C--Mono audio output

    ...

    Palm has ALWAYS been short-sighted. They've only realeased a handful of devices ever that can quality as being ahead of the curve for most of their hardware specs and/or been a good value proposition. Off the top of my head I'd call these the T|C, T3, TX, Zire 31 and arguably the Treo 600 (ahead of its time) and the Centro (still an solid value, especially in its 128mb form).
    Palm has frequently been a day late and a dollar short. The T|C of course had that mono audio jack and the Centro has a 2.5mm audio jack. It's still the best PalmOS device ever produced though (IMHO of course).

    The T|C was also the only Palm PDA with a qwerty keyboard. The W was Palm's attempt at a Treo. The ahead of its time Treo 600 was a handspring product.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    That is not at all what he said though. he said it doesn't exist, it isn't being leaked and it isn't the basis for any decision by buyers.

    We are speculating on later models precisely because there are clearly holes in the broadening of the pre's market as exemplified by leaving off expandable memory.
    There would be "holes" with any feature set the Pre unless it had an 8 megapixel cam, 800x480 resolution screen, 4-inch screen, expandable storage, a virtual keyboard and real keyboard, and a trackball/optical mouse.

    Then, people would complain about the exorbitant cost for their first model.

    What will be a notch in the con column for many prospective buyers is the lack of something long wanted on the iphone boards, expandable storage.
    And what will be a notch in the "Pro" column for many more prospective buyers than that is...healthy onboard storage. The Pre already addresses many "flaws" on iPhone. Addressing them all while simultaneously meeting Palm's separate goals for WebOS would result in an expensive hybrid that would likely satisfy neither crowd.

    The thing has to do better than Iphone.
    Not going to happen. Apple is a dedicated electronics company that has a range of devices from desktop computing to notebooks to personal media players, and they leverage the success of each onto the next product creating an ecosystem that makes a user of one product very likely to buy more from them. Oh, and did I mention their popular and expansive retail stores? Plus, they have a partnership with the largest GSM carrier in America along with a massive TV advertising budget and cool ads.

    Palm is a handheld device company with a tiny fraction of the budget that has been in decline for years. They are partnered with the weakest national CDMA carrier in America, and have a comparatively tiny TV budget and NO retail presence.

    The iPhone was lightning in a bottle. Other manufacturers will do well going forth, but it will be next to impossible to beat that kind of success.
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