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  1. #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    2) If you listen to the same 100 songs a lot of the time it's just sad. Hit random or shuffle once in awhile and listen to something you haven't heard in years.
    Yeah, I already do. Which is why I don't understand why "just" a few gigs of audio is insufficient, especially when it can be quickly and easily changed. I have a thumb drive. The size and portability let me know that it's great for convenience, but if I am a "power user" of it, I will still have to swap files in and out. So what?

    3) the zune is not a daily player. The zune sits at home on a deck as a home player and one I use with the speaker dock. I don't expect Palm to make speaker docks for the Pre, and since it doesn't house my entire library I would never use it as my main listening device at home. So you're wrong. I'm not CARRYING AROUND MULTIPLE DEVICES IF THE PRE HAD MORE MEMORY.
    The point isn't the physical act of carrying, but rather that the Pre - even with more memory - isn't a complete all-in-one device for everybody. Nothing is. What makes the wishes of people who want optical zooming 6 megapixel cameras in their phones less important than you and your audio/video media needs? Since there are "dumbphones" that are already at 5 and approaching 8 and 12 megapixels, it would appear Palm is "behind the times" in that area as well, no? And why doesn't the Pre have dedicated 3D gaming apps from the start? A lot of people don't want to carry a PSP or Nintendo DS too, and shouldn't Palm have thought of eliminating that as well?

    4) You need to quit making assumptions of how people use things. Why would I be switching cards all the time? Again, not trying to always have my entire library with me. Just trying to have more variety with me at one time which I should expect to be able to do as time passes. Memory gets cheaper and the average storage size of players grows. One thing I like to do in listening to more music is find more tunes for working out to keep the variety going. I tend to keep more upbeat music on my flash players. Hear something that's good for a workout, I add it to the playlist. When I get through certain albums and I find it's not a very motivating one for that purpose, I delete it and add new content. It's definitely not a daily thing to dump old and add new to it. I do keep other music on there as well but not to the same degree. And I'll create new playlists and dump music I don't think i'd want to listen to on a daily basis. And of course the variety of content I enjoy grows so of course I want to increase my memory over time.
    And so - as I said - you will either swap cards, or swap files. If you "increase your memory" over time, that means you are buying a new card, and will swap it out. Then, you will swap files. That's not "an assumption". You just said it yourself!

    You're going to create "new playlists"? Well, that's music management, no different than swapping files out. Maybe you have some obscure, suckass media management software, but I have an iPod Touch and iTunes (like most people). The incredibly tedious and repetitive process of swapping files is as follows:

    1) Uncheck playlists I want to go away.
    2) Check playlists I want to go on the device
    3) Click Sync.

    It takes less time (and mouse clicks) to do that than to create the new playlist itself. You'd put the same amount of effort into managing 16GB of music, or 32GB, or even 160GB. You have plenty of variety with you at all times, and more is but a sync away. What is the difference?

    Just happens it can coincide with larger cards becoming cheaper. You even said "at some point" which definitely wouldn't be daily or weekly swapping or changing.
    So, this entire argument is about your frequency of doing these things? Fine. Take it to its logical conclusion:

    - You would have to do this less with 16GB
    - You would have to do this even LESS with 32 GB
    - You would have to do this even LESS THAN THAT with 80GB

    So if Palm is making a mistake by not catering to the "frequency" of media management from power users, isn't there actually NO option that could truly correct that mistake save from putting 80-160GB onboard? Your entire argument is "Well, if Palm was smart enough to do this, I'd be a little less inconvenienced." Well, so would people wanting to take 5 megapixel images or people wanting to look at VGA screens or people wanting to play games or people who want hardware buttons.

    EVERY design decision alienates somebody. And to cater to every "power user," the Pre would have to cost several times the 8GB $199 iPhone. Game over. They're dead. Does that make you or anyone else wanting it "their way" wrong? No. It just makes you unrealistic.

    4) Your replies are becoming more and more nonsense because you keep dictating how we should portion out our memory usage. I used to think you were the voice of reason to the negative side of this debate and appreciated the back and forth, but the more you keep dictating how we should use the device and storage it is definitely seen more as nonsense.
    A very creative reply, sir. Taking my words and saying "Nuh uh, you are!" is the height of wit.

    We always want more memory, but we wouldn't be this vocal if we thought the included memory was similar to other choices out there. Should we ask you and others to prove we're in the minority for wanting or needing more than 8gb of storage? There's no proof of that either.
    Except for sales of the iPhone (number one...on ONE carrier) versus any expandable memory device (distant second, third, fourth, etc. on multiple carriers). Aside from that, no proof at all. If you were "in the majority", an expandable memory device would be currently outsell the iPhone. They do not (by significant margins), and you are not in the majority.

    Others have plainly pointed out the numerous other phones that have expandable storage and some with gigs of built in storage with expandability, regardless of the fact how good or bad they are (at least in your eyes) as devices.
    Numerous? Nokia's N97/N95/N81 (one of which isn't out yet, and the others are barely sold in North America), and the Samsung Omnia. That's numerous? Even the Blackberry Storm has ONE GB onboard. Not "gigs." Gig. Singular.

    Even with your beloved iphone comparisons, they have had 8gb from the get go and you can now get a refurbished 3G one for $100 from AT&T which is half of what you'll be able to get a Pre for if not more than half if they don't hit the $200 mark.
    Actually, a refurb is $150. Check AT&T's site for yourself.

    16gb is becoming more and more popular.
    Which is why exactly one phone in existence currently offers it onboard, and the two planned ones to match it (the Nokia N97 and Samsung Omnia 16GB) are months away.

    Maybe you will see 32gb, maybe not. If they do come out with it, I'd bet you'd see the 8gb go bye bye outside of refurbs. Heck the 4gb nano is history outside of the limited edition one while it has been bumped up to 16gb. You can thank MS for that one.

    Others talk about how nobody outside of the forums even knows about mSD cards yet every deal site out there posts mSD card deals all the time, and the sellers constantly sell out of them. 8gb cards at $14 are tough to pass up.
    And yet, the leading device (by far) doesn't support them, and shows no signs of slowing down or losing marketshare. And the devices with 8GB onboard an a mSD slot have little to no sales presence here in America. Must not be much of a differentiator.

    And you even say you want more memory? So why do you even care to be such a negative voice to those that are actually vocal about thinking the Pre should have more memory whether it's in the form of 16gb built in or 8gb with a card slot?
    Funny. I see you as negative to those who think Palm made a tough, but necessary decision in configuring the Pre as they have. Negative to Palm as well.

    Anybody wants "more" from any given device. It's the nature of technology. But it's unrealistic to expect but so much from a company with (comparatively) limited capital and one shot at releasing ONE device to re-establish themselves in the consumer market. If Palm wanted nothing more than to copy iPhone, they could've stuck a crappy 2MP camera with no distinguishing features onboard, left off the hardware keyboard and the gesture area, and shoved out a glitzy skinned version of Garnet with a virtual capacitive keyboard.

    But they realized they could top Apple in areas where Apple couldn't easily catch up, and that's where they put their muscle behind. More memory is not an area where any competitor, much less Apple, would have trouble catching up to and surpassing Palm. So it was and should've been a much lower priority than the other tech the device features. That's just smart business positioning. The only reason people on this board are whining so much is because Palm knocked those areas out of the park, and so you care about what they didn't get to that much more. It's no different than reading "No MMS, No Copy/Paste, etc." in every iPhone thread across the Internet. But does that matter to them and their success now? Of course not. It's just really low on their priority list, as it should be. An iPhone 3G with those features would've satisfied people who already had one. But an iPhone 3G with an app store created a WHOLE LOT of new customers.

    That's what Palm is trying to do. And expandable memory does little to nothing to accomplish that, so if something has to go in the name of keeping the size small, the price low, and the profit big...it should be among the very first items on the chopping block.
  2. #182  
    Maybe 8Gb is enough. But in the market place, when lined up against devices with greater than 8Gb, that's one box that won't get a tick for the Pre.
  3. #183  
    comparing wanting a card slot or 16gb of memory to wanting a 6x optical zoom is just sad. One can easily be made reality and the other highly improbable. Again...nonsense, especially (if it were even probable) when the cost of putting a 6x optical zoom on a smartphone would mean a significant cost increase as well as a significant space increase. Neither of which is a factor in adding a card slot or an extra 8gb of memory.

    And I was off by $50 on the refurb price. I went off an article I read. So sorry. Still cheaper than what the Pre would be. Could be a lot cheaper from the rumors floating around. Yes they are rumors, but even hinting at a $300 price tag with a 2yr contract? I'll bow out right there. I don't think the fat middle will want a $300 price tag either. But again rumors.

    You also mention the Nokia and Samsung being months away. Last I checked, so is the Pre unless you want to buy into more rumors.

    Equating updating to a larger card with swapping out cards is just sad. You twist and stretch my comments to the ridiculous to attempt to make your point. But you actually make my point. Frequency matters. Less time in front of the computer trying to manage what I want and don't want on my phone sounds like a plus to me. Again...nonsense. Maybe you have the time to sit at a computer and swap stuff on some sort of daily basis, but many don't. They don't have to do it now with their flash players to the degree we would with the Pre, and they shouldn't have to.

    Palm's basis of existence is being a PDA. So they wouldn't just copy the iphone. But your'e the one that puts the iphone on a pedestal like it's the holy grail. You also said they're trying to attract new customers. A majority of the devices out there that use microSD are phones. If all people were doing were using the phones for photos they take, one gb would be enough since the files are small. The fact that 8gb cards sell like crazy and 16gb cards are well on the rise shows that people are most likely loading more and more media on their phones. And this would be all phones, not just smart phones. If palm wants to attract new customers, wouldn't users of media oriented dumbphones be a nice market to target? Where are all these new users coming from? They all can't be people that are just considering the iphone. So if people are putting media on their phones via 8gb cards or even 16, then they would be taking a step backwards because they're sharing that space with the OS, PIM info, programs they download and so on.

    Palm is the one that touted the multimedia capabilities. They did that more than many other functions people care more about. If you want to tout the functionality then it should keep up with the status quo. Flash based standalones have moved beyond 8gb. The iphone has gone beyond 8gb and will probably drop that model (at least for new ones anyway) when a 32gb one comes out with 16gb becoming the base model (at least so the rumors say with the Nano's axing of the 4gb setting the precedent). The lowly music only Sansa Clip has an 8gb option. Creative Zen has 8, 16 and 32gb flash options with expansion. Cowon D2 has up to 16gb of onboard storage not to mention a full size SD slot. The Sansa Fuze has 8gb onboard with a mSD slot.

    And yes, the point is the physical act of carrying. Again you stretch the points to meet your needs. People don't want 80gb of storage and and the media player quality on par with the big gig players from the likes of MS, Creative, Archos and such. No one is asking for mega optical zoom either. Yet those are things you mention to prove your point.

    Many have voiced that 16gb would appease them and lessen the sting of not having a card slot, something that's been standard on 5 generations of treos. This isn't something that is far fetched. This isn't a pipe dream. It's not unreasonable to want that.

    And from seeing many other posts, outside a couple that share some of your views, your'e still the only one being this vocal and adamant about how you think we're asking for the moon and the stars and are irrational for wanting it when in fact it is a cheap and easy fix to add 8gb more or a microSD card slot. You're still the main voice of dictating what our expectations should be and how we are supposed to use our phones. Even others have pointed that out. I'm done with the back and forth. Not worth the effort. So write all you want if it makes you feel better. You won't be getting a response, well from me anyway.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  4. #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    comparing wanting a card slot or 16gb of memory to wanting a 6x optical zoom is just sad. One can easily be made reality and the other highly improbable. Again...nonsense, especially (if it were even probable) when the cost of putting a 6x optical zoom on a smartphone would mean a significant cost increase as well as a significant space increase. Neither of which is a factor in adding a card slot or an extra 8gb of memory.
    You know nothing of the Pre's internal mechanical makeup, yet you speak with absolute certainty that it wouldn't affect the device. If one section could sum up the vapidity of your moaning and whining, this would be it.

    And I was off by $50 on the refurb price. I went off an article I read. So sorry. Still cheaper than what the Pre would be.
    Strike that. THIS is the perfect summation of how silly you sound.

    You admit to not verifying "facts" you assert, and then somehow "know" the final price of the Pre even though no one else does. Well done.

    Equating updating to a larger card with swapping out cards is just sad. You twist and stretch my comments to the ridiculous to attempt to make your point. But you actually make my point. Frequency matters. Less time in front of the computer trying to manage what I want and don't want on my phone sounds like a plus to me. Again...nonsense. Maybe you have the time to sit at a computer and swap stuff on some sort of daily basis, but many don't. They don't have to do it now with their flash players to the degree we would with the Pre, and they shouldn't have to.
    Let me get this straight: The people posting on this board daily to complain about the lack of a microSD slot do not have the TIME to click on iTunes or other media management software as to which playlists they want on their Pre or not.

    But they have the time to write lengthy replies like yours? LOL. Speaking of nonsense, please stop with the notion that syncing playlists on and off is some time-consuming exercise. I change playlists on my iPod Touch every couple of days in less time than it takes me to log on this board and see what tripe you've written today.

    Palm's basis of existence is being a PDA. So they wouldn't just copy the iphone. But your'e the one that puts the iphone on a pedestal like it's the holy grail.
    If by "put the iPhone on a pedestal", you mean acknowledge reality and the statistics that prove it's the number-one selling phone as of last year, sure.

    Since water's wet, I'm a water fanboy too, and did I mention the sun came up this morning?

    You also said they're trying to attract new customers. A majority of the devices out there that use microSD are phones. If all people were doing were using the phones for photos they take, one gb would be enough since the files are small. The fact that 8gb cards sell like crazy and 16gb cards are well on the rise shows that people are most likely loading more and more media on their phones.
    Or that the same minority group of power users are upgrading their capacity, or that they're easily lost and need replacing, or 100 other scenarios that don't support your opinion. But we "know" that the scenario that DOES support your opinion is the real reason that 8GB cards "sell like crazy".

    Good thing you're staying away from vague, unsubstantiated claims as the foundation of your argument.

    And this would be all phones, not just smart phones. If palm wants to attract new customers, wouldn't users of media oriented dumbphones be a nice market to target? Where are all these new users coming from? They all can't be people that are just considering the iphone. So if people are putting media on their phones via 8gb cards or even 16, then they would be taking a step backwards because they're sharing that space with the OS, PIM info, programs they download and so on.
    Excellent reasoning. The phone that's been most successful at attracting new customers to the smartphone market has no microSD slot, so to match that success, Palm should...offer a microSD slot. Because we "know" that everybody with a phone that has a microSD slot is using that slot, right?

    Oh, and we "know" they're using 8GB+ cards, too. Well, since we "know" all that, I guess you're right.

    Palm is the one that touted the multimedia capabilities. They did that more than many other functions people care more about. If you want to tout the functionality then it should keep up with the status quo.
    The status quo where less than FIVE non-iPhone phones out of thousands or tens of thousands have 8GB or more of onboard memory? Yeah, they are waaaay behind the curve there. What a relic.

    Flash based standalones have moved beyond 8gb.
    And this is "true" because....you say so?

    As of this moment on Amazon.com, the "most wished for" and "best selling" iPod Nano is the EIGHT GIGABYTE version.

    Click that link and scroll down or look at the right nav. So let's see...the top selling media player brand's top selling flash player model is 8GB, and yet..."flash-based standalones have moved beyond 8GB". You're batting a thousand, sir.

    The iphone has gone beyond 8gb and will probably drop that model (at least for new ones anyway) when a 32gb one comes out with 16gb becoming the base model (at least so the rumors say with the Nano's axing of the 4gb setting the precedent).
    And this makes for a great factual basis, yet again. Probably. So the rumors say.

    The lowly music only Sansa Clip has an 8gb option. Creative Zen has 8, 16 and 32gb flash options with expansion. Cowon D2 has up to 16gb of onboard storage not to mention a full size SD slot. The Sansa Fuze has 8gb onboard with a mSD slot.
    And not ONE of these devices is even in the top FIFTEEN best-selling MP3 players at Amazon, one of the most successful retailers in existence. Gosh, if only Palm would wake up and target this vast, untapped market. They're shooting themselves in the foot by focusing on that obscure company occupying almost all of the top 15 slots, I tell you.

    And yes, the point is the physical act of carrying. Again you stretch the points to meet your needs. People don't want 80gb of storage and and the media player quality on par with the big gig players from the likes of MS, Creative, Archos and such. No one is asking for mega optical zoom either. Yet those are things you mention to prove your point.
    I mentioned a "mega optical zoom"? Oh, wait...I didn't. You exaggerate in the very same sentence you accuse me of exaggerating. Golden.

    Many have voiced that 16gb would appease them and lessen the sting of not having a card slot, something that's been standard on 5 generations of treos. This isn't something that is far fetched. This isn't a pipe dream. It's not unreasonable to want that.
    Also standard on these treos:

    - Garnet OS
    - A non-standard headphone jack
    - A mediocre recessed resistive screen
    - A bulky form factor

    Why not bring these artifacts along for the ride too? By your reasoning, because so "many" people have paid for headphone adapters to use with their Treos, the Pre should also require the same adapter so that their purchase isn't wasted and they can continue to get use from their accessories. That's no different from them having gotten used to microSD cards and buying them. So why not demand Palm remove the 3.5mm headphone jack and keep that too?

    And from seeing many other posts, outside a couple that share some of your views, your'e still the only one being this vocal and adamant about how you think we're asking for the moon and the stars and are irrational for wanting it when in fact it is a cheap and easy fix to add 8gb more or a microSD card slot.
    It's not a "fix" at all. It's a regression.

    You're still the main voice of dictating what our expectations should be and how we are supposed to use our phones. Even others have pointed that out. I'm done with the back and forth. Not worth the effort. So write all you want if it makes you feel better. You won't be getting a response, well from me anyway.
    Good. Your position was untenable to the point of comedy anyway. I've pointed out multiple factual errors, inconsistencies, and broad generalizations within your argument, and you haven't been able to substantiate a single one. I'd leave this thread too if I were you.
  5. #185  
    This thread has not only run its course, the only things left for people to say are lengthy and combative.
  6. #186  
    Quote Originally Posted by Alli View Post
    This thread has not only run its course, the only things left for people to say are lengthy and combative.
    Agreed. Can't be bothered reading the repetetive ramblings.
  7. joelpalm
    joelpalm's Avatar
    #187  
    I am realistic and don't expect this to replace anyones mp3 players, yeah we could use more space or a card slot, but where is the perfect phone? I haven't found it.
  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by Alli View Post
    This thread has not only run its course, the only things left for people to say are lengthy and combative.
    I just think no one is going to change anyone else's mind, no matter what valid points are brought up from either side.

    Personally I will still wait for a 16GB GSM version, if I haven't gotten something else on contract by then. Which is likely, unfortunately.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #189  
    The Pre has 8GB. Done. End of story. Buy it if you want. Don't buy it if you don't. Wait for more memory. Wait for expandable card slot. Too late to change the Pre.
  10. #190  
    this is the type of response that brought this thread downhill. Though I'm sure I played into it too. The other thread seems to be more constructive than destructive, at least until these types get there.
    Quote Originally Posted by cary328is View Post
    The Pre has 8GB. Done. End of story. Buy it if you want. Don't buy it if you don't. Wait for more memory. Wait for expandable card slot. Too late to change the Pre.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  11. #191  
    wait a sec...maybe I missed something...the PRE does or does NOT have a SD card slot?
    Dave
    Sprint Pre User Who LOVED his Pre but left for a more supported phone (EVO Shift)...maybe one day Sprint & HP will see the light and bring us a great 4g capable Pre replacement!
  12. #192  
    kidding, right? no. no card slot. room for a sim card, but no room for expansion.
  13. #193  
    This is the first concrete evidence of storage capacity that I ve seen. Found on the fact sheet. Is this old news? Without memory slots, I'm a little concerned about this.
  14. #194  
    This has been known for quite a while.
  15. krische's Avatar
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    #195  
    Yeah, this has been known since CES I believe. It's up to you if 8GB is enough or not. For me it is. I have a 2GB card in my instinct that is enough for me.
  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by brett328 View Post
    This is the first concrete evidence of storage capacity that I ve seen. Found on the fact sheet. Is this old news? Without memory slots, I'm a little concerned about this.
    Yeppers. It has been known for a while. We have lots of old threads about it. They may be way back at this point though.

    For the Goat's needs, 8GB will be more than enough. I can't fill the 2 gigs on my Blackberry.
    -Goatin' Ain't Easy-
  17. #197  
    Large data is more about how much music/video you store on device. There's plenty room for everything else.

    I had an 8GB SD card and lost it. Upgraded to 16GB SD for Treo and have not yet gone over 8GB. Over 90% of the 8GB is music/video and TomTom maps.

    My concern is that I like to swap data via SD card to my laptop. I'm hoping there will be a good networked file swapping service. I have gmail drive on laptop. Would love to see a gmail drive client for Pre, but anything similar would meet the need.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  18. #198  
    no it isn't.
  19. urkel's Avatar
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    #199  
    Obviously this is subjective, but it depends if the Pre is a good media device or not.

    For me, since the Pre doesn't sync with iTunes (music/video/podcasts) then I'll probably be carrying an iPod still anyway so 8GB is enough for just apps. BUT, for a 2009 device then I think 8GB is outdated and a 16/32GB version will probably come within a few months resulting in a lot of pissed off early adopters.
  20. #200  
    Great, another thread on this topic.

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